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68-f-model

Parking vintage semi at your house.

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Yeah ,  zoning is a pain.  I think I have a good plan settled on though. 

Cut a 12 ft  tall x 10 wide door in the north end of the barn on my week off next week and tuck it in out of sight.  Only costs me a new over head door. 

Also picking up plates and insurance of some type tomorrow. 🤔

Till then it’s getting a quick scuff/ wire wheel and a black and dark silver paint scheme. Should hide a bit better than red and white. 🧐

 

I’ll either redo the same scheme it has or try to create this one from the Mack brochures . 

 

 

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In my little part of Hell,  they deem what it is by pure definition so there is no getting around it.  It can be FOUR things:  car, pickup, boat, camper.  If not one of those, it can't park on less then ONE acre.  No weights, lengths, license plate, nothing.   I'm only 1/2 acre.   I can't add on to my garage or put up another building as I'm already at max allowable sq footage for outbuildings.  I can't put up a wood shed!  I already asked.

You have 2.5 acre, so there has to be some leeway?  Or do they just consider you "commercial" and it is not zoned "commercial".

Edited by Freightrain

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The more I read this the more I agree with outbehindthebarn.   I'm glad I live in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania.  

When I first bought my land I went to the township to see what I had to do to put a driveway in.   The guy told me I got the land and need to get onto it so just go put one in.   

Edited by Hobert62

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52 minutes ago, Hobert62 said:

The more I read this the more I agree with outbehindthebarn.   I'm glad I live in the middle of nowhere Pennsylvania.  

When I first bought my land I went to the township to see what I had to do to put a driveway in.   The guy told me I got the land and need to get onto it so just go put one in.   

Is there a piece of a middle of nowhere anywhere in PA? i thought you guys are tight neighbouring to each other there.

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I am a Building Inspector/Code Enforcement Official/Zoning Official in Pa. on top of some of the other hats that I wear. That being said, I often find myself between a rock and a hard place having to enforce codes and zoning regulations but also being a truck lover and owning several myself. I live in a residential neighborhood with homes on all sides of me. I would never subject my neighbors to outdoor storage of my trucks- I am fortunate in that the 58 FWD fits in the garage. The 78 Hahn is stored off-site. 

68-F-Model You have received some good advice here as well as some very poor advice. The WORST thing you could do is tell the Zoning Officer (thus the Town) to "go to hell." That will only open pandoras boxes that you do not want opened.  You yourself said that the Zoning Officer seems accommodating, you should use that to your advantage and go with it. Work with him and come to an amicable solution. I read through the ordinance that you posted and as I see it, if the truck were tagged as an antique, you should be good to go- however I would double check and make sure they have no ordinances preventing parking of vehicles over XXXX in size or weight; whether they are commercial or not. Some municipalities will do that to prevent parking of large RV's. 

 

On 5/5/2018 at 7:19 PM, PaLawman said:

 Pa has an unreasonal search and seizure law requiring probable cause and a warrant. 

I am allowed to take photographs of anything that I want from a public right-of-way or from neighboring properties with permission of the property owners. That being said, in the suburbs of Philly, most communities have Property Maintenance Codes forbidding storage of junk vehicles or large commercial vehicles in residentially zoned neighborhoods. The same communities that elect their District Justices where us Zoning Guys have to get our Administrative Search Warrants from. When I have to fill out the affidavit of probable cause, I attach the pictures from the sidewalk or the neighbors property and the 5 or 6 warrants I have applied for over the last dozen years have never been denied. 

Edited by 1958 F.W.D.

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cant you put a camper on the back and tell them its a flop house and put a madam in it?? you know that way you can be up to snuff with their law in writing and claim that '' services are being performed''???

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Wonderful zoning codes and nosey neighbors. What about bolting a camper on the back and getting it registered as a RV. I understand the reasons for zoning rules and code but it gets rediculous when cities will not even let you put a shed in your yard. 

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No District Judge or Magistrate will issue you a warrant to enter the property, no matter how well you articulate the reason in your Affidavit of Probable Cause if you cannot readily see the object or target of your investigation which he would keep in a portable tent, garage, or under a tarp. This is one of the problems good people have with Government overstretching their constitutional authority. It's construction, intent, and spirit of the law was intended on the guy hoarding inoperable partially dismantled vehicles or junk, allowing all types of critters to harbor or live inside. Those type of guys would need a farm or large parcels of land. Unsightly terminology is what that have most recently added. Clearly subjective. What is for one may not be for another. F-Model has a wonderful piece of transportation history and appears to be very close to a survivor. Many of us would love to have. With a few steps like a DMV Antique registration plate and nominal insurance and a portable tent or tarp he would fall well within the scope of the law. As well as it NOT being parked on a street. Business insurance is acceptable as well and could be added on. I have recommended owner/operators with rubber tired equipment do the same as Municipalities have tried to prosecute/cite skid steer and backhoe operators for operating equipment on the streets without insurance. Again, Government overstepping. PA Title 75 allows and defines certain equipment be except from those regulations (within 1 mile of the job site). But, F-Model has a legit defense as he is not parked on a street and absent any further criteria he is not in any violation from what I read. It's on his own property and not a public street. As others have suggested, YES.. Definitely do not offer what you intend on doing to Code Enforcement, but rather be polite and ensure that you are or attempt to make the issue brought into compliance. When you volunteer your intent the Government will modify the Code and be given even more oversight that effects more than just yourself. Just be cautious. I am still looking for time to find that section of case law. 

Amos.

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He is in TOTAL compliance already... The ordinance clearly states on the STREET... It is on his PERSONAL and PRIVATE Property.. If they prosecute/cite him he will win.. However, you can bet the Farm at the next municipal meeting, they(Government) will modify and adopt the section to effect his property solely, or the wording so it effects or impacts him in a negative manner. However, he would have owned the CMV prior to the ordinance or modification. I have to find that Supreme Court ruling about CMV's being used as personal vehicles and not in a commercial application. He can use that law as reference as well. But, registering the truck as an Antique or Historic vehicle alone may work. But it depends on if they(Township/Government) adopted their Vehicle Code Law into their ordinances, which would classify or define a CMV by weight or size. Vehicle Law only. Then that would be an obstacle for him. I would attend and ask the Municipality in a pubic forum, since they are targeting owner operators with this ordinance what accommodations will they be offering to allow CMV's to be parked in Commercial Zones or areas? Is the Township or Code Enforcement plan on setting aside a parcel of land so these vehicle can be parked at legally?? Seems a bit subjective and they intend of substantially harming and effecting CMV owners and F-Model only, or as he may be the only CMV owner in that area. Smells like a recipe for a legit civil lawsuit. Especially if it effects one's livelihood. 

Amos.

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It has nothing to do with the street,  all the zoning I posted is for parking on private property.

Well the up date is after an hour and a half at the DMV  I scored a trailer plate for the lowboy and a  non commercial , non GVW,   unrestricted plate for the F-model.

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Edited by 68-f-model
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Oh an I happened across an other lovely code/zoning.  

It bans any "project" vehicle whether it is licensed and insured or not.  If it sits more than 14 days and can't be started and driven on the road it isn't allowed.

 

IMG_0094[1].JPG

Edited by 68-f-model

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On a happier note.  The F-model is sporting the first coat of its new look.   I need to do a second coat and then re-do the former accent white design in smoke grey in addition to the fuel tanks and all non chrome trim pieces smoke grey as well. B)

A new slack adjuster, a wheel seal an oil change plus a few odds and ends and it will almost be road worthy.  Yeah time to build some diamond plate rear fenders as well.

IMG_0148.JPG

Edited by 68-f-model
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Do the license have you covered now for the ordinance?   My antique tag in Pa says I'm allowed to use it 1 time a week for general commuting.    Today I went to the bank and local gas station for a soda.       

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It sounds like you may have a zoning challenge from all the post. Boy that Village has a hard-on for a hobbyist like yourself. Glad you got plates for both truck and trailer. I can only speak for Arizona and some highway law. Even with collector and vanity plates here I have a weight sticker and pay for weight on both truck and trailer. No collector plates for over 10,000GWV no matter what. I have a permanent tag on the trailer that is only issued for under 10,000 GVW, the trailer is 9,600 empty. The remainder of the weight is on the tractor. That yearly sticker is not cheap for 80,000GVW combined. When I load the other trucks on the deck I still have to deal with weight and state to state issues. Even my Semi Tractors that will never pull a trailer again still have to have proper weight of the unloaded tractor on the registration card. Anything over 10,000LBS here must have weight on the registration to put them on the road. Check this out before you think all is good and clear with your plates and registration. States fines can be pricey. Proof of collector insurance on the truck and trailer helps in proving non-commercial use as well even with weight.   

Other thing, make sure you have "Privet Use Only" and "Not For Hire" in large letters on the cab. It saves a lot of time when you get stopped or go though the scales. Weight still counts though.

Edited by AZB755V8
delete word

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All this hubbub makes the long cold ass winters in Montana look more and more appealing if I don’t say so myself. Glad you got things figured out. 

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State Farm insured it as a recreational /pleasure vehicle with limited miles per year.  Definitely non commercial and it states it on the proof multiple places. 

The mack is registered at a 13,650 pounds weight and the plate fee was based on that.   I have no idea what it really weights  that is just what the 685st Mack info says. 

 

On the ordinance, I am not sure but I have next week off and am trying to set up a face to face meeting with the zoning officer. I want everything agreed on and in writing on if I am good or not.  

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Around here some people park them in their front yard so everyone can see.  Kinda like showing off I guess. image.jpg.dd61bc215f0d5969810befdd34394301.jpg

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I park my trucks, and trailers, in the back yard. 

I live in the unincorporated area of the county for a reason. 

As long as you keep the weeds at bay all they care about is you don't dump oil on the ground. 

A friend of mine had a neighbor complain about his work trucks, 10 wheel dump trucks, and once the county found out that the two drivers lived at the house they suggested he get some of the green screening fabric and put it on his fence 

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As some have mentioned we can all understand the reason for zoning, but the majority of this is anti truck bias! There is a clause in Hernando county Florida where I live that no commercial vehicle over 5000 gvw can be parked in a residentially zoned area! That's a half ton pickup! It's ok here to park a 300000 dollar camper the size of a greyhound bus! I have it on reasonable authority that you can have a road tractor hobby truck licensed as a camper as long as it isn't used for paid hauling in Florida,similar to 68 Fs situation in Michigan.

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