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WHAT IS GASLIGHTING?  The term originates in the systematic psychological manipulation of a victim by her husband in Patrick Hamilton’s 1938 stage play Gas Light, and the film adaptations released

Don't negate the likes of what got Trump elected. His past was well known, and documented. Like him or not, I feel he adamantly had "America First" at the forefront of his presidency. The cost is/was

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That article on gas lighting is an interesting perspective, but as the case with many subjects these days it grossly misleading.  The 6 or 7 topics that were touched on have been criminally oversimplified by the author.  That’s not to say that some fair points haven’t been made, but the author clearly has no intentions of having a good faith discussion about facts, circumstances, causes, results, etc.  

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1 hour ago, hurstscrambler said:

That article on gas lighting is an interesting perspective, but as the case with many subjects these days it grossly misleading.  The 6 or 7 topics that were touched on have been criminally oversimplified by the author.  That’s not to say that some fair points haven’t been made, but the author clearly has no intentions of having a good faith discussion about facts, circumstances, causes, results, etc.  

That's a pretty strong accusation. Care to elaborate?. 

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I can illustrate my perspective a bit on one of the topics, and it is probably one that we can mostly agree upon.  Here is a quote from the article relating to capitalism.  

“Capitalist countries are the most prosperous countries in the world. The standard of living is the highest in capitalist countries. We see more poor people move up the economic ladder to the middle and even the wealthy class through their effort and ability in capitalist countries than any other economic system in the world, but we are told capitalism is an oppressive system designed to keep people down. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you’re being gaslighted.“ 

     If I was to have a discussion with the writer I’d virtually agree without question to the first half of this paragraph.  I’d want them to elaborate on who in fact is claiming capitalism it self is inherently oppressive.  I’d want to point out that there are times that capitalism can not work as well for some of us as it does for others.  Many reasons surly exist for this, but pretending it is a flawless system is unproductive. 

      There were many workers in this country during the industrial revolution that worked themselves to death to die in debt.  For all of the examples of people lifting themselves up with capitalism there are also many with the opposite result.  This is why most in this country have unemployment insurance, social security, workers compensation, etc.  That doesn’t mean capitalism isn’t the best system, I firmly believe it is.

        But the underlying goal of the writer is to paint every criticism of capitalism or attempt to make it more equitable for some as a promotion of socialism.  Many people know and history shows us that Capitalism needs some degree of regulation.  What people need to be debating and educating themselves on is to what degree are regulations needed.  The free market needs to exist and flourish without being bogged down with too much regulation, and a common goal should be that hard working people aren’t left in the dust.  

         It’s a complicated question and it is not an issue that can be decided hastily.  Not accepting the writers oversimplification isn’t gaslighting, it’s simply recognizing that the topic requires much more consideration.  We can debate the merits of regulation that should or shouldn’t be implemented, that would likely be productive.  

         Having one side want to de-regulate everything and the other side roll the dice with socialism is a non-starter.  There is too stark a difference between those two ideas that approaching any common ground would be impossible.  The funny part is, that I bet common ground would be easily found between the majority of citizens.  The focus should be on the majority of the citizens as opposed to the far ends of each party.  

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2 hours ago, hurstscrambler said:

I can illustrate my perspective a bit on one of the topics, and it is probably one that we can mostly agree upon.  Here is a quote from the article relating to capitalism.  

“Capitalist countries are the most prosperous countries in the world. The standard of living is the highest in capitalist countries. We see more poor people move up the economic ladder to the middle and even the wealthy class through their effort and ability in capitalist countries than any other economic system in the world, but we are told capitalism is an oppressive system designed to keep people down. So, we ask ourselves, am I crazy? No, you’re being gaslighted.“ 

     If I was to have a discussion with the writer I’d virtually agree without question to the first half of this paragraph.  I’d want them to elaborate on who in fact is claiming capitalism it self is inherently oppressive.  I’d want to point out that there are times that capitalism can not work as well for some of us as it does for others.  Many reasons surly exist for this, but pretending it is a flawless system is unproductive. 

      There were many workers in this country during the industrial revolution that worked themselves to death to die in debt.  For all of the examples of people lifting themselves up with capitalism there are also many with the opposite result.  This is why most in this country have unemployment insurance, social security, workers compensation, etc.  That doesn’t mean capitalism isn’t the best system, I firmly believe it is.

        But the underlying goal of the writer is to paint every criticism of capitalism or attempt to make it more equitable for some as a promotion of socialism.  Many people know and history shows us that Capitalism needs some degree of regulation.  What people need to be debating and educating themselves on is to what degree are regulations needed.  The free market needs to exist and flourish without being bogged down with too much regulation, and a common goal should be that hard working people aren’t left in the dust.  

         It’s a complicated question and it is not an issue that can be decided hastily.  Not accepting the writers oversimplification isn’t gaslighting, it’s simply recognizing that the topic requires much more consideration.  We can debate the merits of regulation that should or shouldn’t be implemented, that would likely be productive.  

         Having one side want to de-regulate everything and the other side roll the dice with socialism is a non-starter.  There is too stark a difference between those two ideas that approaching any common ground would be impossible.  The funny part is, that I bet common ground would be easily found between the majority of citizens.  The focus should be on the majority of the citizens as opposed to the far ends of each party.  

Thank you for the reply. I appreciate it. While I would agree with your position on capitalism and it's need for a level of regulation, I disagree with your interpretation of the OP. I re-read the paragraph to which you referred and nowhere did I get the notion that they were portraying Capitalism as "flawless". It only says that it is better than the alternatives. Being "the best" does not suggest being "flawless". It suggests fewer flaws that the alternatives. Also, nowhere did I read anything that suggests that capitalism should be 100% regulation free. It doesn't mention regulation at all. You make some good points but they are not relevant to the paragraph to which you are responding that I can see. As far as "who in fact is claiming that capitalism it self is inherently oppressive"?, REALLY?? Start with Bernie Sanders and then every single one of his supporters. Their whole premise is that capitalism is a platform from which the rich getting richer off the backs of the poor and is designed to keep the poor, poor. For the most part I think your response was great, just fail to see the relevance to the OP. Thanks again for sharing your thoughts. I appreciate it. 

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         Your right, the writer didn’t say flawless, and I should have conveyed my point better without mis-representing what was actually said.  My interpretation is that mentioning the positive results, and not mentioning anything negative that the author is being somewhat lazy and sensationalistic. 

          The writer claims to have been told that capitalism is “an oppressive system designed to keep people down”.  That is such a broad statement that it has no teeth.   My point of questioning the source of the statement was to nail down who said it and in what context, because that does change things.  Is it something a known politician actually said or is something a opinion news writer crafted to frame an opposing argument?   Is it possibly an unfair or dishonest representation of an opinion?  

         I don’t know the premise that Bernie and his supporters operate under, honesty I’m not familiar with his policies as I didn’t seriously think he would get the nomination.  Assuming your take is accurate, I would agree that they as well aren’t engaging in a good faith discussion that is likely to generate anything positive.  My take on Bernie is he feels the results for many in our capitalist society are that the rich get richer and the poor get poorer, as you stated.   Evidence probably does exist to support that claim, but the system being designed for that purpose is likely not the case.   I don’t know if The Bernie people as a collective believe that.  It would seem to be a very important distinction, saying the entire system is broken and is designed to work against most of the country is a big claim.  If the premise is that they believe they have ideas that could help make the system work better for us, those would be ideas that I’d atleast be willing to listen to.   They very well could be bad ideas, but listening can’t hurt.   As our economy evolves with technology, so must the laws and the checks and balances we use to keep capitalism working as it has for so long.      

        I appreciate the conversation as well, and I did enjoy the article.  It was interesting, I had heard the term gaslighting before.  I knew roughly what it meant but not the origin, it makes a lot more sense now.  Thanks.  

     

         

 

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Socialism is the dirty word of the day yet the U.S. has had it for years and years, even the internet your

on right now was created by the Gov. This is a old piece 2014 about the worst states for socialistic

behavior, there's uh quite a few red states listed and somehow I doubt the statistic changed, probably

even more now.

 https://www.thestreet.com/investing/stocks/10-most-socialist-states-in-america-13275683

One ping only

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aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh i knew you would be back,,,,,,,,,and im glad you did,,,,because i wasnt out to hurt any feelings,but tell me my friend how do you think these two assclowns are going to deal with real situations.....mainly the countrys enemies.....since both of them have had everything handed to them the carpet muncher for the color of her skin,,,,and frankly i dont know how nonuts got that far except for being the biggest bigget known to man.....but dont forget,,,,hes all for the blacks now........maybe he can simply riot in russia,and china....since it was all ok here...,,,,,ya,,,,great idea bust up innocent peoples bussinesses.....and see what happens.....ooooooooooooooo thier just blowing off steam,,,,let them be......thier both real scary lets face it,,,,...bob

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Sooo it's ok for some people to march with weapons in the streets like a 3rd world country. Soooo I see alot now about some people.  Carry on enjoy the new world order.

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You can't blame him, Rob.  On February 16th, Joe didn't have any memory of what he did on December 21st or January 11th.  Today, he has no memory of what he said on February 16th!

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I did all the political postings I could showing the truth about what was really going on on facebook. Got thrown in facebook jail many times...The whole country lost due to this last coup. The left doesn't care about facts, only deal in rhetoric that fits their agenda. This site was my place to get answers about something I could actually do something about...getting tidbits of info about building a  Mack. please don't screw this site up with opinions on  the political mess this country is going through

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1 hour ago, other dog said:

This is "Odds and Ends", the place for those types of posts. Just ignore "Odds and Ends" and you'll be fine.  

 

yup. 

odds and ends is where non trucks stuff goes to live in infamy

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when you are up to your armpits in alligators,

it is hard to remember you only came in to drain the swamp..

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