RowdyRebel Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 So I've been having this issue where my clutch is not maintaining adjustment. Started the other day as I was limping it home (front diff issues...done got another new one of those now)...the dadgum thing instead of having a little free play got to where it was stupid tight...as in it was completely disengaged before it would trip the clutch switch. I adjusted it to get it down to the local Mack (they put in another ReMack front diff) and I asked them to look at the clutch. "Nothing we can see wrong with it" they said. So today, I'm running and the clutch is gradually tightening up again. So, I adjusted it again at my 1st drop before heading on down the road to grab my backhaul. I noticed a couple bolts missing between the clutch and transmission...odd...but didn't really dawn on me. Anyway, clutch was snugging up some more on my way home, so I got under it with the creeper and found my problem. I've only got 4 bolts left holding the transmission to the bell housing...2 on the passenger side, and 2 at the bottom. I tried moving one of the bottom bolts to the driver's side, but apparently those holes are a little sloppy. Pretty sure the bolts are M10x35 1.25 pitch...was going to see about picking up some more to replace the missing bolts, but now think I'll have to see if I can't find M12 in a 1.25 pitch to re-tap the holes a little larger. If that won't work, I'll have to see about those helicoil things to repair the threads to the proper size. Anyway, snugged up the bolts and it pulled the transmission back up tight to the bell housing, and wouldn't you know the clutch pedal had about 60% free play? So, I had to adjust it back again to set it right. At least now I know if the clutch starts seeming like it's not maintaining adjustment, that I need to crawl under there with my 15mm wrench and snug it up again to get it back where it needs to be. Hopefully it gets me to the weekend where I'll have a couple days to see what I can do to fix it proper. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 You may lose the clutch shortly. Usually when that happens it puts enough strain on the clutch and it weakens the friction disks. I had a 6 spd years ago loosen up and about 10,000 miles later the clutch blew. Also I'd replace the bell housing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 I always use some blue locktite on those bolts. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 1 hour ago, Dirtymilkman said: You may lose the clutch shortly. Usually when that happens it puts enough strain on the clutch and it weakens the friction disks. I had a 6 spd years ago loosen up and about 10,000 miles later the clutch blew. Also I'd replace the bell housing. Well that's not what I wanted to hear! Dern near a brand new clutch...just replaced 150K miles ago with the new motor. If the clutch goes, I'll look into the new bell housing, but for now looking at my options for making it work. Found some thread inserts at Fastenal ("only" $4.95/ea) that I'd have to drill & tap a 9/16-12 hole to screw in some brand new M10x1.25 threads...but they look to be special order only. Also found I could go with the cheaper wire inserts (helicoils), but I'm not having much luck in finding out how big of a hole they thread into. I've also found that M12x1.25 bolts are available...but have yet to find a source for them. I'd also need a tap that size. I figure if I upsize the bolt a little but can keep the thread pitch the same, I'd avoid the problems associated with cutting new threads and stuff not all aligning right. Unfortunately, money is extremely tight right now. Changed the name on the door to run under my buddy's numbers, and there was a 2 month delay while paperwork and everything got sorted out and put in place. Still owe on a brake overhaul (S-cams, slacks, etc...) and now that front diff that let go...so really not much room in the budget for a clutch right now. That and a full year's registration is due at the end of the month to renew my tags. I could really use a winning mega-millions ticket right about now...only a $421 million jackpot tomorrow night. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post davehummell Posted March 23, 2018 Popular Post Share Posted March 23, 2018 RowdyRebel i had the same thing happen to the older Brockway i was hauling riprap up in conn. I was on the job and the truck had to run . so the rest of the day i had no clutch that night i went and got one of the load chains and wrapped it around the trans and used a binder to tight'n it up there was 3 or 4 bolts left in the bell housing and the rest of the holes were not round anymore. I ran that truck for over a month like that . I should ad when people say they are on a tight budget we swapped tires that showed the cords to ones that were just bald. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965 Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 Get the helicoil set that is complete with drill bit, tap & tool to insert the helicoil. They work good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
h67st Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 9 hours ago, RowdyRebel said: So I've been having this issue where my clutch is not maintaining adjustment. Started the other day as I was limping it home (front diff issues...done got another new one of those now)...the dadgum thing instead of having a little free play got to where it was stupid tight...as in it was completely disengaged before it would trip the clutch switch. I adjusted it to get it down to the local Mack (they put in another ReMack front diff) and I asked them to look at the clutch. "Nothing we can see wrong with it" they said. So today, I'm running and the clutch is gradually tightening up again. So, I adjusted it again at my 1st drop before heading on down the road to grab my backhaul. I noticed a couple bolts missing between the clutch and transmission...odd...but didn't really dawn on me. Anyway, clutch was snugging up some more on my way home, so I got under it with the creeper and found my problem. I've only got 4 bolts left holding the transmission to the bell housing...2 on the passenger side, and 2 at the bottom. I tried moving one of the bottom bolts to the driver's side, but apparently those holes are a little sloppy. Pretty sure the bolts are M10x35 1.25 pitch...was going to see about picking up some more to replace the missing bolts, but now think I'll have to see if I can't find M12 in a 1.25 pitch to re-tap the holes a little larger. If that won't work, I'll have to see about those helicoil things to repair the threads to the proper size. Anyway, snugged up the bolts and it pulled the transmission back up tight to the bell housing, and wouldn't you know the clutch pedal had about 60% free play? So, I had to adjust it back again to set it right. At least now I know if the clutch starts seeming like it's not maintaining adjustment, that I need to crawl under there with my 15mm wrench and snug it up again to get it back where it needs to be. Hopefully it gets me to the weekend where I'll have a couple days to see what I can do to fix it proper. Good catch...it pays to give things the "wide angle view". I've missed things in the past by not taking the time to look everything over. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 If it ain't one thing, it's another. Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted March 23, 2018 Share Posted March 23, 2018 You could drill the flywheel housing and tap to 7/16 C/T like the older engine used. 1 Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 23, 2018 Author Share Posted March 23, 2018 Most of what I'm finding as far as threaded inserts and helicoils, I'm afraid I'll have to pull the transmission back out of the way. While I've got a 2000# transmission jack, that 2180B is going to be pushing that to its limit...and I've got a choice between a gravel parking spot or a rough asphalt driveway to work in...neither one very friendly to rolling around a 2000#+ (transmission, gear oil, 2 PTO's, hydraulic pump, etc...) Prefer (if possible) to find an option that can be completed with the transmission in place. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillyT Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 How many of today's drivers would even think of wrapping a chain around the tranny to align it?! Actually how many could even find the tranny? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 7 minutes ago, BillyT said: How many of today's drivers would even think of wrapping a chain around the tranny to align it?! Actually how many could even find the tranny? When is the last time you seen a driver attempt to change a flat on the side of the roadway or in a parking lot? How bout chain up an axle to get to a safer place to work or repair facility? Rather they'll sit on the cell phone and whine to a dispatcher or someone to address their woes yet complain about not making enough money. Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I don't really know of any way to install a threaded insert without the clearance needed to drill and tap. A rt. angle drill sometimes helps, but the trans is probably going to need to come back, or out to do your needed repairs. I have an OTC 2000# trans jack and it doesn't struggle with any truck trans w/PTO's I've worked with which is several. An 18918B w/two air shift PTO's installed and full of oil gave no problems other than exhaust clearance. I'm not in a grass field or gravel driveway however but a piece of 3/16" steel plate would support the load and not crease from the caster weight. As Glenn mentioned, blue loctite is really needed on those fasteners too. Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back In Black Pulling Posted March 24, 2018 Share Posted March 24, 2018 I have a big 1/4 inch plate i putt under the truck in the stone driveway to pull the trans , jack rolls easier on there then concrete Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 24, 2018 Author Share Posted March 24, 2018 On 3/23/2018 at 8:04 AM, theakerstwo said: You could drill the flywheel housing and tap to 7/16 C/T like the older engine used. I could find the 12x1.25 tap, but no bolts. 7/16-20 seemed extremely close...larger than the 10mm, slightly smaller than the 12mm, and the threads are only about 1/4 thread off over the 1-1/2" long bolt. Close enough, so I picked up a pair of drill bits and a pair of taps (just in case I break one). Going to see if the holes are close enough to run the tap in with a wrench first...might solve the clearance issues of getting in there with a drill. Hell, might even weld a nut on the end of one of the drill bits to turn it by hand (slowly...) if I get to thinking that might be quicker/easier than dropping the transmission. Also picked up some thread paste (says it's "better than tape") and a stick of blue locktite. With the threads being a hair off, not sure which would be better to use to get things to stay put...guess I'll figure it out as I go. Anyway, pretty sure I've got what I need. Already 3:00 today and still got a few more stops to make while I'm up this way...probably be tomorrow before I get to work on it. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 Well the good news is I was able to use a tap and a 1/4" wrench to get all but 1 of the wallered out holes stretched out to the 7/16-20. Used the old bolts in the holes up next to the transmission mount, since they didn't seem too bad and there was no way to get the tap into them even if I wanted to. Only vacant hole right now is the one behind the clutch linkage...wallered out too bad to use an old bolt, but can't get the tap in there to stretch it to fit a new one. Maybe I'll pull the clutch linkage off when it's warm enough to have the boy outside with me and I'm not listening to him screaming bloody murder through the baby monitor. Way I figured was if he's screaming, he's breathing. Had to make a few trips inside to check on him while he was napping, though. Anyway, I didn't pull the floor panel to get any bolts in the top...figure there's probably a couple up there, but again with a screaming kid in the house I didn't want to spend any longer than absolutely necessary. At least now I've got most of them...and I left my ratchet strap on there for good measure. Every bolt also has blue lock-tite on the threads, and the new bolts have lock washers, too. HOPEFULLY there wasn't too much extra wear that will cause me trouble in the near future...guess we'll wait and see. I'm only planning on reloading the stuff I'm going to need tomorrow into the cab...emptied it out Friday when I got home anticipating removing the floor panel this weekend. If anyone knows for certain whether there'd be bolt holes in need of bolts up there, then I'll run with minimal equipment until I get those taken care of. If there aren't any up there, then I won't bother pulling the floor panel and will restock the cab when I get home. Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carlotpilot Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 not exactly a chain around a trans mission but it worked. more than a few years ago four of us were running together across arizona it was a sunday afternoon hotter than hell. we came across an elderly couple broke down on the side of I -10 about 80 miles west of phoenix` no auto traffic was stopping to see what was wrong so we all stopped` to make a long story short their trans had blown the seals and lost all the fluid` none to be had out there so we poured about a quart and a half( all the motor oil) we could muster into the trans filled it the rest of way up with water and east to phoenix we all went got them to a dealer and a cab to a motel. somehow I can`t picture that happening in 2018 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 6 hours ago, carlotpilot said: not exactly a chain around a trans mission but it worked. more than a few years ago four of us were running together across arizona it was a sunday afternoon hotter than hell. we came across an elderly couple broke down on the side of I -10 about 80 miles west of phoenix` no auto traffic was stopping to see what was wrong so we all stopped` to make a long story short their trans had blown the seals and lost all the fluid` none to be had out there so we poured about a quart and a half( all the motor oil) we could muster into the trans filled it the rest of way up with water and east to phoenix we all went got them to a dealer and a cab to a motel. somehow I can`t picture that happening in 2018 Not this day and age. An automatic doesn't care what type of fluid it has for the hydraulic medium for a while. However water doesn't have near the lubrication qualities of any type of oil so that trans would be short lived unless serviced fairly quickly. The water and oil you added would have been on top of about 4.5quarts of oil retained in the torque converter once the car ceased moving from the oil pump no longer picking up oil to circulate. The transmission, lines, and radiator heat exchanger would have a nice "slurry" inside and been a mess but easily flushed. I don't doubt the dealership could have just replaced seals and sent them on their merry way. Quote Plodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 There bolts evenly spaced all the way around the bell housing Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RowdyRebel Posted March 26, 2018 Author Share Posted March 26, 2018 1 hour ago, 1965 said: There bolts evenly spaced all the way around the bell housing Thanks. Will plan on pulling the floor in the next day or two then to get the rest of them...guessing maybe 3 or 4 more? Quote When approaching a 4-way stop, the vehicle with the biggest tires has the right of way! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
1965 Posted March 26, 2018 Share Posted March 26, 2018 I’m saying at least 4; from above mounts Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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