Chris Sissick from Hanks Truck Pictures called us to the mat on Photo Linking

[Barry]

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that Chris Sissick contacted me over the use of one of his Mack Truck photos in this post:

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/29202-jersey-macks/?p=161183

Here is the original message that I received on Feb 4, 2013:

Barry,
My name is Chris Sissick and I am writing you to inform you that my
picture was used my a member of your forum without my permission. It was
brought to my attention by a friend who is registered to use your site.
I am not a member. The photo was taken from Hanks Truck Pictures. Com.
Be advised that there is a disclaimer on every one of Hank's pages..
The photo is located on, Antique & Classic Mack Trucks, Jersey
Mack's, Page 13 under post for Apgar Bros. by Vision 386. The photo is
apgarbros.jpg 55.66K.
All pictures on Hankstruckpictures are copyrighted and noted with a
copyright symbol. Please remove this photo immediately. You may contact
me at jasempre@optonline.net. I am looking forward to your reply.

Chris Sissick

He was polite and simply requested removal as per Hanks Truck Pictures Copyrighting so I replied with the following statement:

Chris,
My forum is a non profit medium for the promotion of the antique truck hobby
and also peer to peer support for Mack Trucks. I'll remove your image as
requested but I am sure that all 10,000 plus BMT members will find it
interesting that Hank's Truck Pictures and the Chris Sissick Collection are
overly stingy about the fair use of their photos for non profit purposes
plus I don't even know how you can copyright a photo of someone else's
trucks that contain company logos? Do you have their permissions to use
these images? Your water mark is also intact on the photo as per fair use
requirements so I'm really not seeing the great concern. I am a graphic
artist, photographer and web designer myself and I understand and appreciate
your feelings on this issue but you have to understand that if you upload
something to the internet, it will more than likely be hot linked on many
other sites or downloaded for many other reasons. I have begun to
appreciate the hot linking of my material and I even encourage it as long as
my watermarks stay intact...but, to each their own...

I'll remove the image as I mentioned, I just wanted you to know that you
should think of the repercussions that your photo policing, strong arm
policies may have on all the truck fans and hobbyists out there. Again, I
appreciate the email but I want you see our side of the issue and also
understand that images linked on my forums are not for profit or anything
like that.

Have a great day...
Barry

As I mentioned in the reply, I will remove his image as requested or until I receive a reply of agreement with him or Hanks. Also, until any agreements are made, consider this post a heads up to how Mr. Sissick and Hanks Truck Pictures prefer to treat a non profit website, and it's valued members, that promote antique truck history! I have never once gone after anyone linking photos from our photo galleries and I don't intend on ever doing so unless someone is using images for profit. Then I agree that it is wrong.

[220cummins]

This is fitting, Animal House court room scene...

[other dog]

Thanks Barry, I too have posted pictures from Hank's here, and they're all over many different truck pages on facebook- one place he specificaly said not to post them- but I won't post any more.

[Bigdogtrucker]

I VERY much like the way you responded,not laying down like a bad dog the way he prob. thought you would.... .I just don't get why people get bent out of shape,why take the pic. and put it on the web if you don't want it used/enjoyed???If it was used in a negative way that would be a different story.

[j hancock]

Barry,

Excellent response to the situation. Keep us posted.

Interesting point if Mr. Chris got permission for the photograph of the company truck and logo. I had never really thought about it.

Jim

[39 Baby Mack]

Mark and Barry

I looked up Ralph Smith on Hank's Truck Pictures

Found a listing---Russ MacNeil Truck Pictures-l 1980's page three.

It shows a picture of our unit #172 with trailer #T-137 at Ft.Pierce, FL. in the eighties.

I didn't mind him taking the picture nor do I mind him posting it on the internet.

But i guess in the lawyer run bullshit society that we in live today my three brothers and myself should have been contacted to give permission to Hanks to have it published.

Total bullshit!!! or maybe Horseshit!!!

Ron Smith

[fxfymn]

Very well said Barry. As the old saying goes: any publicity is good. If the pics were not posted here I would have never heard of Hanks pictures. I assume he makes his money from advertising or selling pictures. No visitors, no sales.

[bullhusk]

Hey guys, I just wanted to let you know that Chris Sissick contacted my over the use of one of his Mack Truck photos in this post:

http://www.bigmacktrucks.com/index.php?/topic/29202-jersey-macks/?p=161183

Here is the original message that I received on Feb 4, 2013:

He was polite and simply requested removal as per Hanks Truck Pictures Copyrighting so I replied with the following statement:

As I mentioned in the reply, I will remove his image as requested or until I receive a reply of agreement with him or Hanks. Also, until any agreements are made, consider this post a heads up to how Mr. Sissick and Hanks Truck Pictures prefer to treat a non profit website, and it's valued members, that promote antique truck history! I have never once gone after anyone linking photos from our photo galleries and I don't intend on ever doing so unless someone is using images for profit. Then I agree that it is wrong.

It was brought to my attention by a friend who is registered to use your site??? What the hell is that ? Whats next a warning from Pac Car holy cow!

[Bigdogtrucker]

Maybe the person will come forward and explain their reasoning???

[57 bcr]

Very diplomatic of you,Barry! Well said,too! I have used truck pictures of other folks on here,but always leave their name on the bottom or put it off to the side,out of respect and give thanks to them for taking such an interesting picture.I could have chopped the name off of just about every picture and called it mine,but I don't treat other people like that.After all,doesn't Hank's "link" to other sites,as well? We could go on and on about this,but for what? We all very much enjoy this forum to bring us back (even for just a little while),to the "good old days" where we didn't have 1.5 miilion shithouse lawyers per square mile and just enjoy a little conversation among friends.Barry,again,thanks for putting it so well to Mr. Sissick................Al Rhino..............Good Day!

[39 Baby Mack]

Very diplomatic of you,Barry! Well said,too! I have used truck pictures of other folks on here,but always leave their name on the bottom or put it off to the side,out of respect and give thanks to them for taking such an interesting picture.I could have chopped the name off of just about every picture and called it mine,but I don't treat other people like that.After all,doesn't Hank's "link" to other sites,as well? We could go on and on about this,but for what? We all very much enjoy this forum to bring us back (even for just a little while),to the "good old days" where we didn't have 1.5 miilion shithouse lawyers per square mile and just enjoy a little conversation among friends.Barry,again,thanks for putting it so well to Mr. Sissick................Al Rhino..............Good Day!

Amen Al!!!

Ron

[57 bcr]

Thanks,Ron!

[mackniac]

My guess is that yes we have to respect Mr.Sssick and Hank's truck , but when you have to copyright a picture

that you take I guess it is far fetched , are they making any money with those pics ??

You can take any of my pics and do whaterver you want about it , they are taken with pleasure for my pleasure and the pleasure of the others , being so open on freedom of many things and being so tight on copyright for pictures .

He was polite in his request and Barry was polite but also clear on the response which is a very good thing between the two communications, we can see that they are adults in treating this mather .

my 02 cents

[Barry]

Here is Chris's reply...

Barry,
Thank you for removing the said photo. I appreciate your concern
in this matter. I will not debate this as it is a constant problem with
other web sites as well as in this instance, yours. As a photographer,
you should know the relationship between photographer and photo. If any
of your members wish to repost one of my pictures taken from
Hankstruckpictures.com, please have them contact me for permission
first. I know you can not monitor this, but a little courtesy from your
members would be appreciated.

Chris Sissick

I was hoping he would be more understanding and open for debate but it looks like a closed case! LOL. I'll remove the pic but I have also contacted Hank's about the copyright and to see if we can use his stuff in a limited manner under the fair use act or maybe even in exchange for an ad banner? I am awaiting response from Hank's.

In the mean time, feel free to request permission from any of Hank's photographers before you post. They say that they are pretty flexible so I am curious to see how that goes!

[57 bcr]

10-4,Barry.Thanks for keeping us informed (and for being the Webmaster,as well).................Al

[Freightrain]

Sounds kinda like CYA. Chris sent you an email, you reponded, all parties are "in the know". That covers everyones asses if the lawyers show up. Plain and simple.

I rarely copy pictures from other sites, even on other forums. If I do, they aren't copyrighted, usually just something from Google or Photobucket that I use to get a point across or help explain something.

[Maddog13407]

''a little courtesey from your members would be appreciated....'' ha what a crock. the members on this site are come of the most courteous nicest people i have ever met. sorry we peed in someones wheaties for postin a picture for educational purposes and not for money purposes...

[j hancock]

Pictures of trucks in truck stop parking lots, along the highway or sitting at the dock to be unloaded has become high classed ART!!!

WOW!!!

I like taking pictures and posting pictures. If somebody uses one of mine it is nice to get mentioned, if they don't...big deal.

Jim

[Freightrain]

I can imagine my old two stick video and the quantity of copies and downloads it got way back in the beginning. I made the video, it got downloaded and copied to Youtube by FOUR separate people(long before I knew Youtube existed). I got all kinds of emails once people figured out whose it was. Then lord knows what from the last 6-7 yrs? I better get the lawyers out!! Ya, right, I'll get right on it LOL!!!

[Barry]

I know! You guys are great...one of the best groups of truck fans that I know of! Don't let these guys get to you. There is always people out there with big city egos that want to show there cocks off! The real truck hobby is sharing and enjoying each others photos and that is what BMT is all about!

On that note, I also just got an email from another Hank's contributor and he is a little more out spoken that Mr. Sissick

As another contributing member of Hankstruckpictures.com I would like to point out that a simple act of courtesy (just asking permission first) would prevent all these issues with copyright. Is that too much to ask from your members? As someone in the photography business you should be well aware of how valuable your work is. I remember asking a newspaper photographer about a black and white photo of a truck and he said I was more than welcome to buy a copy for $50! And here all we are asking is simply getting PERMISSION before using a photo. Seriously? I am glad I am not a member of your site because it sounds like many of your members are selfish. David Faust

This was my reply to Mr. Faust's email...

I appreciate your input, Mr. Faust but I have to whole heartedly disagree. I’m starting to think that the contributing members of Hank’s are the greedy, selfish ones in this debate. As a photographer, I do not post anything on the web that I don’t mind having reposted on other sites. As a matter of fact, I rather enjoy the exposure as long as my water marks remain intact. If it is something that I am going to sell or make money from, I simply do not post is on the web or only post small, unusable sizes. Do you make money from your truck photos on Hank’s? If not then why would you be so up tight about truck fans and hobbyists sharing and enjoying your photos on a limited scale, non profit and non commercial, of course? I do agree that if something you photographed appears on a commercial ad or billboard, etc...then you have a case!

I would also like to know if you ask permission from the equipment owners to have their trucks and logos appear on the internet? I am guessing that this is not the case in most instances so I am really curios about this double standard of permission asking! Thanks for your time and I am looking forward to your reply!

Barry

Again, I understand the whole copyright thing but seriously...we aren't making advertisements, reselling prints or anything like that! It is a group truck hobbyists sharing and enjoying truck photographs!

I don't make it a habit of posting emails and such, but this is a very public matter and you guys deserve to know what other people in the truck hobby are thinking and saying.

[jakebrake86]

Well said, Barry. I don't think I'll be visiting Hank's again.

[39 Baby Mack]

I can imagine my old two stick video and the quantity of copies and downloads it got way back in the beginning. I made the video, it got downloaded and copied to Youtube by FOUR separate people(long before I knew Youtube existed). I got all kinds of emails once people figured out whose it was. Then lord knows what from the last 6-7 yrs? I better get the lawyers out!! Ya, right, I'll get right on it LOL!!!

You could always use the one the Howard brothers used I think his name was I. Fleecum Esq.

Ron

[j hancock]

What? Did they all have a bitch party over at Hank's truck site?

It will be interesting to see if any response comes from Hank.

Thank goodness my sh!t doesn't stink....

[Barry]

I don't see any reason to boycott Hanks since these emails are coming from his contributors and I haven't had an official response from Hank him self yet. I'll post his response when I get it. Hanks Truck Pictures is a good site with a lot of pictorial information. The contributors just seem to be a little uptight!

[Freightrain]

Ok, how about this: send an email asking for overall permission to use ANY photo on Hanks? That should cover it for awhile?

Thanks Barry for doing all you do.