Looking to replace my tractors in my fleet for new units

[Marcel67]

Hello guys,

Just wanted some feet back from you guys. I'm running seven 2012 Volvo 670 with D13 and 10'speeds. We run reefers all over the U.S. . Now I have to say that I have not much luck with Volvo engines. I bought the units last December from a Volvo dealer with 300k miles. Following issues egg coolers leaking, oil cooler going bad and countless DEF issues nock sensor dozer valves, enjectors and enjectors cups (Volvo knew this but never called a recall on it) now I know that used trucks is like hit and miss but all of them having issues? Any way going to the dealer is a nightmare. Go for repair service tell you can't touch it till next week? Wow. How do we make money!

So I'm looking at some new Peterbilts or new freight liner cascadia. I love to buy all Mack but go back to the Volvo bullish...t. No one can fix it come back next week. I just like to have fresh opinions from you guys.

[Superdog]

From what I've heard from guys running new,the ones having the best luck are the new Macks. Heard nothing good at all about Freightliner,except for the ones buying glider kits. That's getting to be bigger and bigger,especially small operators who can't afford the downtime nitemare associated with the brand new trucks.

[bbigrig]

Mack and Volvo share the same components and design, so same problems with either make. It really doesn't matter what you buy new, every manufacturer is having issues with their product. 90% of those issues are egr/exhaust after treatment related. May as well buy what gives you some pride in ownership. The EPA is going to shut the door on glider kits soon. Everything is getting it's fair share in check engine lights these days.

[felicello122]

The petes and kw with the Cummins are ok, the paccar motors are terrible we run a 2012 titan with the mp10 585 and had its share of troubles, I personally like the old stuff like the 3406e and 3406c and the the older e techs macks and the Cummins screw up turbo and get

[HeavyGunner]

Our fleet is all freightliners and for what it's worth our company figures it's 50/50 between dirt and paved roads. We are probably using these tractors rougher than most but they (freightliners) are just about shot by 300k miles. Cascadias in my opinion were the worst model we had, noisy, plasticky and most if not all screws in the cab are covered up so you have to know where to pry what to get a door panel off for example. We run detroits, the DD15 is better than the Series 60 with dpf but neither is great. Lots of down time when I compare it to cats I ran before I went to work at my current job. I was getting a repair at a diesel shop last week and was visiting with the mechanic and he told me they are literally doubling the size of their shop and employees to keep up with the huge load of new broken down def trucks. I asked him if any of the new engines stood out from the others and he said nope they're all crap. Keep in mind I highly doubt that shop has seen a newer Mack and rarely even sees older Macks so I don't think Mack was considered on his newer truck engine assessment. Hopefully you can find something that will run long enough to make a payment on itself. Good luck.

[mrsmackpaul]

with all these problems with new and almost new trucks I would be going old school the old coolpower Macks are cheap to buy and cheap to run I know it's not the answer you are chasing but I feel you could buy 7 old R models fix everything that needs fixing on them and they would still be cheaper than just one new truck and if you keep them looking shmick the drivers will like driving them cheaper to run easier to fix no need to plug a laptop into them can get parts anywhere

Paul

[BC Mack]

Marcel...!!!! you sold your best truck... remember, the MH?.. :-)

you truckers are having the same issue we get in the transit bus industry... we scrapped the late 80's buses with simplistic systems, wiring and 6V92's to buy 2007 Novabus (a volvo company) with electronically controlled dash fans for cripes sake, and an Cummins ISL that was so choked from the egr crap we had to rebuild them at 160,000kms (that's 100000 miles to ya 'mericans) with the heads going into the core bin they were so worn out.

latest craze is CNG, natural gas bus with a modified ISL, 750,000 dollars EACH... for a transit bus!!!!!!... the old ones brought in 1200 bucks for scrap. And why are we doing it?, you ask.... greening is what they say, cheaper to run per mile they say.... of course, many don't make it out of the yard and they are just 6 months old....

yes, it would be nice to dream that running a fleet of 1980's vehicles would solve the problem... but we may have our rose tinted specs on.... our two highest business costs are fuel and labour, maintenance then capital cost.... and one third of the maintenance budget is for the wizz bang fareboxes and gps and door counters..!!!

I'm sure as a businessman you've done the numbers, you need fuel economy, no arguement... you are just looking for reliability.... and that's not happening in any field of transportation, including aviation, given all the new high tech we are forced to live with...

and try finding a tech to fix the modern highly complex machines... my company can't and it knows it is behind the 8 ball by a mile trying to upgrade the knowledge of the existing 450 techs with only 5 instructors..!!!

I can't offer a solution, only show it's not just you truckers getting the shaft from epa et al......

BC Mack

[mrsmackpaul]

what economy do the newer Volvo's get ??? Pulling what sought of weight I wouldnt have thought it much better if any than a coolpowered Mack maybe I have rose coloured glasses but I wouldnt think so

Paul

[j hancock]

Be great to find a bunch of mechanical engined CH Macks with sleepers to run for reliability. If something broke though, the truck would probably be down for several days because NO ONE keeps parts on hand for repair.

With all the BS these days between the EPA and then the "demands" of the drivers wanting to only be in the newest equipment, I don't envy your dilemma.

[kscarbel2]

About Freightliner and the fantastic Daimler/Detroit Diesel engines, you should talk with Ernie Delli Santi (aka. Bullhusk). I can't speak for the Freightliner dealers in Florida, but ones like Horwith in Northampton (Allentown), Pennsylvania will bend over backward for you.

If you go with Cummins, you're getting a superb Scania high pressure fuel injection system (Scania XPI).

[Marcel67]

Thanks guys for all your input!, Yeah I miss my MH regret the sale!and makes me sick in my stomick. That truck always run no matter what. The Volvo's I do 6.2 mpg I always run heavy 78 to 80k with frozen loads. Mostly the North east and Midwest Minnesota. The only thing I'm thinking off is that I may buy new Volvo's 780 with D13 475hp and I shift. I plan to get the extended warranty from Volvo up,to 500 k miles but kick them to the curb around 475k miles. The reason I keep,looking at Volvo is the purchase price if order 7 new tractors. I would like to try Mack but don't get a good purchase price.. Yes I also tough about a glider KW but I was told it's hard to finance since manufacturer finance new trucks at favorble rate. I try to stay ahead of the curb but all this crab makes it impossible.

Regarding freightliner I know that the dd15 is a good engine but hear a lot of issues with the rest of the quality. One thing for sure no internationals!! LOL

[Marcel67]

Also I'm looking for good drivers out the Minnesota area to run our reefers east and west lanes! So any one interested PM me!

Experience drivers start at 40ct per mile up to .46 per mile. No touch loads! Www.tlftransport.com We work as a small family oriented company with no BS.

[HeavyGunner]

Be great to find a bunch of mechanical engined CH Macks with sleepers to run for reliability. If something broke though, the truck would probably be down for several days because NO ONE keeps parts on hand for repair..

Your right if you broke down it may take a few days for parts, but compared to how unreliable most of these new engines are it would likely be way less downtime/risk to run the older engines. Not trying to crap on detroits this is just my experience, if an owner operator had the (2) '06 or '07 series 60s with the dpf that we had at work I guarantee it would've bankrupted them. The two we had would run maybe a day or two. Sometimes a week then break down and need tons of parts and work then run a day or two and the same story again. The story I heard at work is our company threatened to never buy a freightliners again unless they took them back. Both trucks had under 200k on them when freightliners took them back.

[Superdog]

You mean Volvo gives you a discount for multiple purchase,but they won't do that with Macks? That says to me " We know are trucks are total crap,and we know Mack is the better truck,"

[Marcel67]

Yup Mack couldn't discount them as much. I love Mack but with Volvo engines it's the same crap! FYI I had a doser valve issue so Volvo in New York didn't have it and told me wait till Monday morning and this on Friday noon. So I thought isn't Volvo same parts as Mack! So I looked up a Mack dealer called them across the dealer from Volvo and ask him if you have a doser valve and he told me yes! Ask him could you install it he said no I don't have to software so ordered my driver to walk across the street get the valve and walk back to the Volvo dealer and had it installed. It's to me mind bugling that the Volvo dealer don't think of that.crazy!

[kscarbel2]

You mean Volvo gives you a discount for multiple purchase,but they won't do that with Macks? That says to me " We know are trucks are total crap,and we know Mack is the better truck,"

Rather, it indicates that Volvo Group wants to promote/sell Volvo brand on-highway trucks more than Mack brand.

Currently, Volvo identifies the Mack brand as having primary value in vocational (though the Mack brand's grip on vocational is far less than decades past).

Remember, Volvo and Mack-branded trucks share the same platform and drivetrain. The hood and cab is virtually the only difference.

[mrsmackpaul]

6.2 MPG at a bit over 36 ton a lot of older trucks will do those figures ok I must missing something in all this because the figures on new trucks arent much better if any better than older trucks but maybe Im reading all this wrong

Im still no help with your purchase decision but at least I have given you all something to laugh at lol

good luck with it all I feel there is no wrong or right answer

Paul

[Ezrider]

i have a 2000 for a reason. its not that i couldn't afford a newer truck, there were trucks as new as 08 that were in my budget range. i wanted a well maintained pre egr truck. dont need the headaches.

do you go to california much if not maybe look into gliders

[TeamsterGrrrl]

I was in Montana for a BMW motorcycle rally last week. New BMW bikes were dying all over the place with computer problems and failed final drives, etc. and keeping the towing services busy. In fact, so many BMWs and other new bikes are failing that the going rate for a one way U-Haul truck rental out of the mountain states is $1000 and up! Meanwhile my club, the "Airheads", that specialize in the old aircooled BMWs built up until 1995, set up under a tent with simple hand tools and repaired several of these old bikes and they were ridden home. Besides a lot of minor repairs, carb and valve adjustments, etc. we replaced a head that had dropped a valve and got a bike running that came in a U-Haul and left under it's own power after we fixed it's ignition system. The only bike that stumped us was one with a failing transmission for which we didn't have parts... The rider left early with the bike in the back of a borrowed pickup he had to return, next day a guy showed up with a working spare transmission and other used parts for sale!

[Marcel67]

i have a 2000 for a reason. its not that i couldn't afford a newer truck, there were trucks as new as 08 that were in my budget range. i wanted a well maintained pre egr truck. dont need the headaches.

do you go to california much if not maybe look into gliders

Yes we go sometimes to CA but can do with out them!

[Marcel67]

I'm looking at some old 2007 Peterbilts from TMC wit CAT C15 in them but they have a million miles. However with the budget set aside we could keep these running for ever!

[Jarhead Enterprises]

I am Division Operations Manager for Worldwide Equipment-Knoxville, but I also handle about 5 fleet accounts and sell both Mack and Volvo. The Mack Super Econodyne Package is doing a great job - Mack MP8-445SE, Mack M-Drive with overdrive and Premium Shifter, 2.64 Rearend Ratio, Full Smartway Compliant Package. I am delivering 40 this year to one customer who bought 25 last year. Loves them. Your issues seem more like a dealer issue than a equipment issue, but in all fairness Miami is a tough place to get anything fixed properly.. Yes these new trucks are certainly more complex and nearly ALL of it is because of EPA mandates. The non SCR engines were a nighmare for ALL makes and models with NO exceptions. Mack is VERY Competitive in the sleeper market price wise and the fuel economy is excellent. Call me if I can help you.

[mrsmackpaul]

I am Division Operations Manager for Worldwide Equipment-Knoxville, but I also handle about 5 fleet accounts and sell both Mack and Volvo. The Mack Super Econodyne Package is doing a great job - Mack MP8-445SE, Mack M-Drive with overdrive and Premium Shifter, 2.64 Rearend Ratio, Full Smartway Compliant Package. I am delivering 40 this year to one customer who bought 25 last year. Loves them. Your issues seem more like a dealer issue than a equipment issue, but in all fairness Miami is a tough place to get anything fixed properly.. Yes these new trucks are certainly more complex and nearly ALL of it is because of EPA mandates. The non SCR engines were a nighmare for ALL makes and models with NO exceptions. Mack is VERY Competitive in the sleeper market price wise and the fuel economy is excellent. Call me if I can help you.

Could you give some figures that these people are getting with their Macks eg fuel economy ect ????

The reason I ask is that the figures we see getting around seem to vary a lot and it would be good for all to see some real figures so we can compare what differences there really are

Do people really get 8 and 9 MPG or is 6 MPG the norm

Years ago Macks were always advertised it's not the initial cost of a Mack to look at it's the whole of life cost I wonder is it still the same ??

Paul

[Lmackattack]

My previous employer had 2 1997 internationals with 3406e cats/18 speeds and 2 2002 c15 cats/18 speeds.

Only major issue was one of the 1997 trucks needed a new cam at 400,000 miles. We did the cups as well while they were in there.

[other dog]

Mack and Volvo share the same components and design, so same problems with either make. It really doesn't matter what you buy new, every manufacturer is having issues with their product. 90% of those issues are egr/exhaust after treatment related. May as well buy what gives you some pride in ownership. The EPA is going to shut the door on glider kits soon. Everything is getting it's fair share in check engine lights these days.

I've heard that about glider kits too, I was trying to interest Jeff Moore in trying out a glider kit from Fitzgerald Glider Kits after nocluejoe66 told me how much he likes his, but he's sticking with new KW's. The new one's going to be a T800 with a Cummins instead of the Paccar engine though. You're right-on about the issues too, we have trucks swinging behind wreckers all over the place because of those issues. If you get anything new you'd better get the towing covered in the warranty.