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Tag or Pusher lift axle on Dump Truck?


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I was talking with a couple companys about extending my frame on the 92 Superliner to accomadate a 16ft bed.  After the adding the couple of feet they were going to roll the axles back and redrill and put a lift axle in front.  While taking a shower I was thinking about all the pulp trucks I ran years ago most were spring lift or mounted so that when weight was put on the truck it would compress the suspension for the added capacity.  Also most of the mixer trucks around here have tag axles unless they have the strong arm then its that and a pusher.  

Has anyone seen a tag axle triaxle dump? 

Robert

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

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14 minutes ago, thomastractorsvc said:

I was talking with a couple companys about extending my frame on the 92 Superliner to accomadate a 16ft bed.  After the adding the couple of feet they were going to roll the axles back and redrill and put a lift axle in front.  While taking a shower I was thinking about all the pulp trucks I ran years ago most were spring lift or mounted so that when weight was put on the truck it would compress the suspension for the added capacity.  Also most of the mixer trucks around here have tag axles unless they have the strong arm then its that and a pusher.  

Has anyone seen a tag axle triaxle dump? 

used to be a guy in frederickburg va that had a 7 axle set up 2 behind the drives and 2 in front 

Edited by carlotpilot
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I was wondering if it was a regional thing based on bridge weight or something like that.  I seen a  pictures on the internet with a pusher in front and tag on rear looked like a michigan set up.  As long as the the tag was down when dumping I cant see what the issue would be unless it may get tippy but with two axles spring suspension in the front I would thik it would be to bad unless it was like a 19 or 20 footer.

Robert

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

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  1. in off road situations, the tag may catch and hold you up-had to get pulled out once because of it
  2. as stated, the shorter wb does make it easier for sharp turns
  3. many times I drop the tag when dumping to keep the body in line, BUT a more rigid spring suspension would be better
  4. but then, I have a 24 foot body

Success is only a stones throw away.................................................................for a Palestinian

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I work with many dump trucks with lift axle behind rear drives but here is something to think about.If your hauling mostly asphalt i would not do that.Reason is when you back into a laydown machine with the over hang behind the drives it is hard to stay in the laydown machine with your apron when laying asphalt around a slight corner.With some of the big laydown machines its not that big of a problem.If you haul only rock then go for it. The good thing about mounting a drop behind drives is your drive wheel alignment is not changed.But the Ackermann geometry on the steer axle is. And yes the frame extension has to be done right with good frame rail to be able to carry the load at the end of the frame.

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glenn akers

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3 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

A lot of the companies that make tags recommend against using them on dump trucks because of the extremely heavy loads on the rearmost axle when dumping. There is also the issue of frame strength- Was your Mack's frame designed to carry as much weight as you're proposing?

Its a double frame on 44K camel back and if I decide to do it I will only be adding less than 3 feet over all for a 16ft bed.  Right now I could squeeze a 15 ft on but would be tight up at the cab.  I not sure yet what to do was just brain storming and trying to see what everyone has seen.  If i could find a decent dump trailer I would do that but I am not going to spend 20K on one and then rebuild it.  As dump truck season picks up I will have to make a decision.

2 hours ago, theakerstwo said:

I work with many dump trucks with lift axle behind rear drives but here is something to think about.If your hauling mostly asphalt i would not do that.Reason is when you back into a laydown machine with the over hang behind the drives it is hard to stay in the laydown machine with your apron when laying asphalt around a slight corner.With some of the big laydown machines its not that big of a problem.If you haul only rock then go for it. The good thing about mounting a drop behind drives is your drive wheel alignment is not changed.But the Ackermann geometry on the steer axle is. And yes the frame extension has to be done right with good frame rail to be able to carry the load at the end of the frame.

I don't do asphalt just rock and dirt and I was hoping to save some money at the body builder if I went with the tag on the rear.  To have it stretched, axles moved and lift installed its around 7K without a bed.  It would be $4500 to just add the frame and tag to the rear.     

Robert

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

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yes and no they have a commercial zone that goes by tire/axle up to 22400 each if tires are rated for it, outside of the zone it is by bridge formula.  My tandem can carry 15 tons outside the zone at around 52500lbs (Bridge Formula),  in the zone I can go up to 67200lbs with the same truck.  Although I am tagged at 54K so I never run over my plates in the zone, its an 85 do not want to break it.  Most triaxles here are 15 to 16 ft beds can go up to and not exceed 80K in the zone but uses bridge formula outside the zone so most only carry 16 to 17 tons legally with pushers.  

Using a tag would increase the length for bridge and should be able to get a few more tons.  

A strong arm on the rear is good for another 10K so if I could get half that I would be happy. 

 

 

Robert

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

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We ran milk trucks around here that were spec'd for flat country, tag in the back.... when we ran them here, lifting the axle on an incline with a load on ..... took the weight off the steer couldn't turn worth a darn. Don't know the lay of the land in your country, but definitely something to consider.

Fun is what they fine you for!

My name is Bob Buckman sir,. . . and I hate truckers.

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Like many,I agree the stress put on the end of the frame to do the tag vs. pusher deal is not worth the shorter turning radius you would be gaining. My cousin works for a paving outfit in Michigan that tried that concept on a group of DM's they bought in the early '90's. The results were disasterious.  Frame damage was the norm on the back of these trucks. The guy that spec'd the trucks out,made sure the tags would dump the air as soon as the tranny was it put reverse. Needless to say,none of their trucks have been spec'd like this since. They went back to the 2 pusher system on quad axle trucks.Would leaving the tags down while dumping,relieved the stress put on the rear frame of these trucks,maybe. That was in a fleet enviroment also. An O/O enviroment like yours,Robert I would venture to say you would do the "right thing"  to prevent such damage,as you would be the guy fixing the problem if/when it happened. O/O's (for the most part) do a pretty good job in controlling their destiny. Their very existance depends on it.  Al

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IF YOU BOUGHT IT, A TRUCK BROUGHT IT..AND WHEN YOU'RE DONE WITH IT, A TRUCK WILL HAUL IT AWAY!!! Big John Trimble,WRVA

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A company I work for had milk delivery trucks with tag on the rear going in out of the stores would get hung up and pull it with a pic-up couple times a year then it got stuck in gear on the mix-master the towing company pick it up from the rear and broke in half .

Ed

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An 8x2*6 would be an efficient set up, while at the same time providing optimum weight distribution for reduced road wear.

Twin Steer (front axles)

6 wheel steering (twin steer plus the steered tag)

Lockable differential on the drive.

Or a 10x4*6 (tandem drive bogie with steered tag)

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Can you add a steerable lift axle in front of the tandems and use a 14-15 foot body with 60" sides,my truck only has a 14.5 body with 5' sides and I can Easley put 24 tons of asphalt,I added a 20,00 steerable lift in front of 58 rears,it was tight but it fit. But I'm in down state ny,with my grandfathered permit I only need 16' of wheel base  with the right axle and tire ratings  I can gross 79,000!

Edited by MACKS
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Most tri-axle dumps in Florida have the tag in front. On most of the heavier spec'd units, the tag is steerable. However in Florida, as hatcity can attest, the sandy soil makes it easy to get stuck! So a tag behind the drive needs to be "dumped" if backing into sandy soil to dump! I drove a B model single axle with a rear tag (an ex-road tractor) dumping into house pads, you had to crank it thru the compound in reverse and dump the tag the second it left the pavement or you would get stuck! Of course with a full screw locked in, you had more traction!

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15 hours ago, MACKS said:

Can you add a steerable lift axle in front of the tandems and use a 14-15 foot body with 60" sides,my truck only has a 14.5 body with 5' sides and I can Easley put 24 tons of asphalt,I added a 20,00 steerable lift in front of 58 rears,it was tight but it fit. But I'm in down state ny,with my grandfathered permit I only need 16' of wheel base  with the right axle and tire ratings  I can gross 79,000!

I thought about it but with the two different weight zones it would only be feasible for use in the Comercial Zone as it wouldn't really increase capacity outside that zone as the bridge wouldn't increase and the added weight  of the additional axle would cancel any gains.

I just really need to find a good dump trailer.

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Robert

"I reject your reality and substitute my own."

 

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The idea is to make money so keep the truck u have in my opinion,that's why I added the drop to my CL when the weight laws changed,58 rears n all,gets the job done with ease,my buddy did the same and his truck is an 85  RD,we got the toughest trucks around lol and we work almost ever day..Good luck and keep us posted.

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