Steel bed versus aluminum bed

[kscarbel2]

Chevrolet Trucks Press Release  /  June 7, 2016

We compared the roll-formed, high-strength steel bed of the Chevy Silverado to the aluminum bed of the Ford F-150. See how they held up.

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[TeamsterGrrrl]

Abusive loading, and as expected, both beds were damaged. So what the hell did they prove? GM is gettin' desperate!

[kscarbel2]

The global Ford Ranger, which has been brutally tested, has a steel bed. Aussie Ford truck engineering impresses.

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[kscarbel2]

Chevy escalates Silverado advertising battle with Ford F-150

Automotive News  /  June 8, 2016

Chevrolet is escalating its truck battle with Ford through a provocative advertising campaign that claims the Silverado pickup’s steel bed is more durable than the F-150’s stamped aluminum bed.

In the start of a major sales and marketing offensive, Chevy released a batch of new videos overnight that show the Silverado’s roll-formed steel bed sustaining only superficial damage when subjected to various construction-site poundings, while the same tests punctured and cracked the F-150’s bed.

The tests were conducted without a bed liner.

Chevy plans an ad blitz starting today that will run 30- and 60-second commercials on ESPN, NASCAR programming, the NHL finals, Major League Baseball and more. It will also run longer versions in 2,400 movie theaters nationally. Print ads are slated for most major markets in Texas, a strategic state for pickup truck sales and marketing. A four-page wraparound add also appeared in Detroit's newspapers today.

One video shows front loaders dumping 825 pounds of landscaping stones into the beds of the Silverado and F-150. In a press release, Chevy claims that in 12 straight demonstrations, the F-150’s bed cracked, while the Silverado exhibited only scratches and dents. The video, shot in Chevy’s long-running “Real People, Not Actors” campaign format, features several truck owners clambering onto the pickups’ beds to survey the damage.

“I’m surprised they’re trying to put a product out like this, ya know, and they’re supposed to sell ‘Ford Tough,’” remarks one. Another chimes in: “I think Ford needs to change their motto.”

Joules in the rough

Chevy said in the release that engineers used a 17-pound wedge-shaped striker to scientifically test the strength of each pickups bed. It says the Silverado withstood 90 joules of impact energy without cracking, while Ford’s aluminum bed floor “exhibited hairline cracks at just 30 joules, and was completely punctured at 40 joules.”

A joule is a form of energy measurement equal to moving a small object, such as an apple, about one meter in one second, or .24 of a calorie, according to several online definitions.

In response to the campaign, a Ford spokesman released this statement today:

"When you're the market leader for 39 years, competitors sometimes try to take shots at you with marketing stunts. The fact remains that F-150's high-strength, military grade, aluminum alloy cargo box offers the best combination of strength, durability, corrosion resistance, capability, safety and fuel efficiency ever offered in a pickup. We have built nearly a million new F-150s, and our lead over the competition continues to grow."

Chevrolet truck marketing manager Sandor Piszar told reporters on a conference call that the campaign is not “targeting Ford directly,” but merely pointing out what GM believes is a competitive advantage.

“It’s not an attack on Ford. It’s not an attack on aluminum,” Piszar said. “It’s us showing that we have a better choice for customers in the highly competitive truck segment.”

He said the tests were done without a bed liner because many people buy their pickups that way. He said half of Silverado customers “leave the dealership without any form of bed protection.”

Ford spokesman Mike Levine said just 17 percent of F-150s are sold with a spray-in bed liner.

On the same conference call, Mark Voss, a GM engineering group manager for truck body structures, said the choice of roll-formed, high-strength steel was aimed at “putting the right material in the right application.” He declined to answer whether GM would continue to use steel for the bed in its next-generation Silverado and GMC Sierra, expected to arrive in 2018. But he wouldn’t rule out the use of aluminum if it could meet GM’s specifications.

“We’re continuing to evaluate any new materials as long as they exceed the performance of a high-strength, rolled-form steel bed. We’d consider it,” Voss said.

Chevy said the campaign "is a dramatic example of Chevrolet engineers’ work to select the right material, enabled by the right manufacturing processes, for the right application."

Escalating war

It’s also a dramatic escalation of the war between the two biggest pickup brands, which have gone after each in marketing campaigns intermittently for years as they seek the upper hand in the industry’s most profitable segment.

Lately it’s been Chevy tweaking Ford’s aluminum-bodied F-150, launched in late 2014 and billed as a revolutionary material transformation that GM and others eventually would be forced to mimic to reduce mass and make it easier to comply with fuel-economy regulations. While GM is expected to use more aluminum in its next-generation Silverado and GMC Sierra, due out in 2018, company executives and engineers have said frequently that they won’t rely too heavily on one material to achieve mass savings.

Last summer, Chevy launched a prelude to the new campaign with a commercial that had volunteers assess the strength of an aluminum cage vs. a steel one, just before a grizzly bear lumbered into the room. Almost every person scrambled to the steel cage.

“Truck customers demand the ability to haul their toys, tools and other cargo,” Piszar said in today’s press release. “These videos demonstrate the real-world benefits of the Silverado’s bed, in both extreme and everyday scenarios.”

Repair costs

Chevy also raises the issue of repair costs. Piszar claims in the release that, even if the Silverado’s bed is damaged, steel is “easier to repair than aluminum, potentially saving money and minimizing time” in the collision shop.

In another video, former NFL hall of famer and occasional Chevy pitchman Howie Long chats with Silverado chief engineer Eric Stanczak about the differences between the Silverado’s steel bed and the F-150’s aluminum one. Stanczak demonstrates by nudging a large metal toolbox off the edge of each truck’s bed wall. The corner of the box gashes the F-150’s bed, while leaving only a small dent in the Silverado.

“All of this would really make me think twice about buying a truck with an aluminum bed,” Long concludes.

Truck incentives

The campaign comes as Ford tries to claw back market share it ceded to Chevy last year, when Ford’s F-series availability was limited as the company ramped up production of the redesigned pickup. The Silverado had its biggest market share gain in a decade while Ford’s share slipped.

Ford bounced back through May this year, with F-series sales rising 7.1 percent and Silverado sales slipping 0.1 percent. Ram sales rose 7.7 percent.

The campaign’s launch coincides with Chevy’s Truck Month promotion, which features some of the largest incentives offered on the Silverado since the current truck rolled out in mid-2013. Qualified buyers can get 0 percent interest for 60 months plus up to $8,250 in cash and other incentives on certain crew cab models.

[Keith Pommerening]

Ya gotta like good old Chevy.  Give em 18+ billion dollars of tax payer welfare and then screw their creditors just for good measure...    Of course we all know it was all union payback for political party support.  Are they still using those old antique push rod engines?  I see people dumping cement blocks in $45,000+ every day.  Chebbies have pouches in the doors.  That's where they put the paper bags you put over your head so no one sees you driving one!

[DailyDiesel]

It's a silly ad campaign and nothing more. I wouldn't be surprised if in another year or two a new Silverado is released with more aluminum than the current Ford!

[Red Horse]

Ford won't bite the bait, but they could have a ball with this if they were so inclined...Let's see-for starters how about......

"If you are a dumb ass who drops blocks from about 5' into the bed of your truck, put a sheet of 1/2" ply wood down-or get a bedliner. If you are worried about a frontal collision, we've got you covered-no charge and no extra investment needed."

The real bad news here is we have to once again listen to "truck guy" Howie Long again as he is back on the GM payroll.

[41chevy]

16 minutes ago, Red Horse said:

Ford won't bite the bait, but they could have a ball with this if they were so inclined...Let's see-for starters how about......

"If you are a dumb ass who drops blocks from about 5' into the bed of your truck, put a sheet of 1/2" ply wood down-or get a bedliner. If you are worried about a frontal collision, we've got you covered-no charge and no extra investment needed."

The real bad news here is we have to once again listen to "truck guy" Howie Long again as he is back on the GM payroll.

The only real world people abusing a bed like that are Mr and Mrs suburbia, really don't see people who earn a living using the truck.

 

http://www.popularmechanics.com/cars/trucks/reviews/a10399/how-ford-torture-tested-its-new-aluminum-f-150-16682803/

[TeamsterGrrrl]

And if you really wanna haul stuff, you upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton and get a flatbed with stake sides instead of a stupid pickup bed. Add some tool boxes under the flatbed and you've got a much more productive and useful truck.

[Brocky]

44 minutes ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

And if you really wanna haul stuff, you upgrade to a 3/4 or 1 ton and get a flatbed with stake sides instead of a stupid pickup bed. Add some tool boxes under the flatbed and you've got a much more productive and useful truck.

For once I have to agree with her

 

 

[bulldogboy]

This discussion reminds me of a similar issue in the fire apparatus field forty years ago. In the mid 1970s a new company named Emergency One opened in Ocala, FL to build fire

apparatus with aluminum bodies on commercial chassis. At the time the major apparatus builders were using steel bodies which rusted out in no time but that didn't stop them

from putting down aluminum with the usual arguments; made out of old beer cans, will melt at its first fire, etc. However, E-Ones soon were accepted by many fire departments

and the Ford "C"/E-One pumper became a workhorse of many fire departments including big cities such as Boston, Chicago, Indianapolis, etc. Later, E-One started to build their

own chassis with aluminum cabs; these "Typhoon" and "Cyclone" cabs are still being built today and are still popular with big city fire departments. If aluminum is tough enough

to meet the requirements of active fire departments it says a lot about aluminum's durability. E-One soon became one of the largest fire apparatus builders in the U.S.A.

The next big step for E-One was building aerial ladders out of aluminum. Prior to this ladders were made of wood (the old days) or steel. Like the bodies, aluminum aerial ladders

performed well, were lighter weight, and did not melt when exposed to fire. Again, the aerials were popular in big cities especially because, with their lighter weight, they could use

shorter jacks and not the large outriggers needed by steel ladders to stabilize them. In a city like Boston with narrow, car choked streets this is an important feature. It's interesting that

E-One's biggest competitor, who built aerial ladders out of steel and put down aluminum, soon saw the writing on the wall and realized that if they wanted to compete they, too, had

to offer aluminum as an option for aerial ladders. Boston tried these ladders but they always go back to E-One because of operational requirements and durability.

And what happened to those other apparatus builders of the 1970s? Well, American LaFrance, Pirsch, and Ward LaFrance are out of business, Mack got out of the fire apparatus

business (Bummer!!), and Seagrave is still hanging in there. The steel vs. aluminum argument may continue in the pickup world but, over the last forty years, aluminum has proved

its durability in the demanding world of firefighting.

                                       bulldogboy

 

[41chevy]

Also most people don't know the difference between Aluminum that they associate with beer cans and AlClad (Aero Space industry is the biggest user). Which is high strength, high impact aircraft grade which in many cases is stronger than steel.

Let Mr Lowe drop a cement block on the skin of a 747 and see the same result, panic the innocent public???  

[kscarbel2]

Company's (fleets) that want the lowest operating costs run Fords (not to say their loyalty wasn't tested at times).

GM pickups tend to be personal use.

That all said, Dodge (aka. Ram) is seeing a lot of commercial business now, owing to the Cummins ISB (America's defacto mid-range engine), and the superb 3.0-liter VM Motori (EcoDiesel).

[41chevy]

1 minute ago, kscarbel2 said:

Company's (fleets) that want the lowest operating costs run Fords (not to say their loyalty wasn't tested at times).

GM pickups tend to be personal use.

That all said, Dodge (aka. Ram) is seeing a lot of commercial business now, owing to the Cummins ISB (America's defacto mid-range engine), and the superb 3.0-liter VM Motori (EcoDiesel).

Dodge also realizes the many people don't want a club or crew cab but a regular old truck and bed, and I will say GM's light truck sales are geared towards the Suburban McMansion Cowboys. 

[blackdog2]

They're using grocery getters to do a mans job I have 1997 290k sw f-350 1993 super duty dully 2001 sw f-350 160k all diesels  the 97 f-350 ran around with a 300 gal fuel tank filling gen sets at cell towers on mountains 10 units a day 7 days a week 365 and carry a 8-ft Fischer plow for the mile or two up the mountain in snow rain mudd Auto trans a little weak 1- vacuum pump and just put a water pump in a week ago and 1- set ball joints the fuel tank diesel 40 ft hose pump and support gear it was over loaded 300-400 miles a day now that FORD TOUGH I owned 1 K-20 85 it didnt make 20k new motor by 80k I felt like FRED FLINT_STONE What I always said people put so much money & parts into their Chevys their stuck with them Ive work for fleets and the Chevys didn't last go to any parking lot and count yull have to take off your shoes to count the fords.

[Wobblin-Goblin]

I've always been a Ford guy, but if I was in the market for a new pickup truck, I'd probably go with a Dodge Ram this time around. I think their styling, interior, and Cummins diesel is better than what Ford has, with everything else being about equal.

Then again, with new truck prices being as high as they are, I shudder at the though of buying new.

[kscarbel2]

15 hours ago, Wobblin-Goblin said:

I've always been a Ford guy, but if I was in the market for a new pickup truck, I'd probably go with a Dodge Ram this time around. I think their styling, interior, and Cummins diesel is better than what Ford has, with everything else being about equal.

Then again, with new truck prices being as high as they are, I shudder at the though of buying new.

I will never in my life pay $55,000 to $65,000 for a modern pickup truck which has a planned obsolescence of 4 years.

Like you, I'd be inclined towards the Dodge because of the ISB 6.7, however I also know that (FCA CEO) Sergio's finances are squeaky tight right now, so I've no doubt the brand is cutting corners in manufacturing (more so than Ford and GM) where the customer can't see, or where they're betting the customer won't care.

[Underdog]

I will never in my life pay $55,000 to $65,000 for a pickup truck.

Like you, I'd be inclined towards the Dodge because of the ISB 6.7, however I also know that (FCA CEO) Sergio's finances are squeaky tight right now, so I've no doubt the brand is cutting corners in manufacturing (more so than Ford and GM) where the customer can't see, or where they're betting the customer won't care.

With leasing so popular ( and also repossessions) you can get a 2 or 3 year old truck for half the price of new, and still like new condition. Let someone else take the hit of depreciation, and the ISB will go forever anyway.

[RedBullDog]

12 hours ago, Red Horse said:

Ford won't bite the bait, but they could have a ball with this if they were so inclined...Let's see-for starters how about......

"If you are a dumb ass who drops blocks from about 5' into the bed of your truck, put a sheet of 1/2" ply wood down-or get a bedliner. If you are worried about a frontal collision, we've got you covered-no charge and no extra investment needed."

The real bad news here is we have to once again listen to "truck guy" Howie Long again as he is back on the GM payroll.

I don't recall ever seeing too many Howie Long pickup ads, but maybe I just wasn't paying attention.  

As long as Ford doesn't start over again with the Dennis Leary "words  flying across the screen" commercials.   I HATE the Dennis Leary ads.

[Keith Pommerening]

In the real world...  Looks to me like two skid steer operators just bought themselves a couple new pick-em-ups.

[ranchhopper]

I may be a bit prejudice but my old chevy is 42 years old and still wearing its original paint but then again it was built when they still built a real truck. Parked it in the front yard to wash it after work today they never made many Cheyenne super 10s like this one.

[Gmerrill0516]

I have two friends who run the Chevy with a Duramax.  I think the transmissions are great compared to a similar Dodge of the same vintage (early 2000's) as the Dodge automatics hunt for a gear and don't work well with the Cummins.  The Chevy's appear to need injectors all the time.  My current Cummins and this one have never had a new injector in them.  Not sure why the Chevy's crap out all the time but the Cummins units are solid. 

The best combination is the Cummins with a 6 speed manual transmission in my opinion.  DON"T buy a dodge with a gas engine...I think the suck and fail early.  The old dodge 4 speed auto's suck too.  Plan on a full rebuild when you hit 125,000 miles.  Install all the Kevlar aftermarket parts and it will work but....just get the standard and save yourself $1200 and a week without a truck.

As for the aluminum vs. steel bed, the aluminum's biggest weakness is toughness.  The tensile strength and toughness will be more susceptible to stab wounds.  The weight savings and using it with a little bit of common sense make that add an empty argument.  I usually run a sheet of plywood or a bed liner myself, and any jerk that loads a truck like that might have a stab wound or two of his own. (Not condoning violence here haha).

I plan to grab a 2 year old truck next time around myself...they are available and the first guy can pay $30K for the new truck smell.

[kscarbel2]

If you could buy a Ford F-Series pickup incorporating the Dodge's Cummins 6.7L ISB and Chevy/GMC's Allison 1000 transmission, and Dana axles, you'd have a nice pickup.

[Brocky]

KS
You said what I have been saying for years.. Swapped a Power Stroke for a Cummins that came wrapped in a Dodge 2 years ago. The 6 speed Aisan automatic seems to be an exact copy of the Allison.. 30k miles and very happy so far.

[kscarbel2]

11 hours ago, Brocky said:

KS
You said what I have been saying for years.. Swapped a Power Stroke for a Cummins that came wrapped in a Dodge 2 years ago. The 6 speed Aisan automatic seems to be an exact copy of the Allison.. 30k miles and very happy so far.

Controlled by Toyota, Aisin generally makes a good tranny.