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More reverse gears needed.


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So i was wondering if there is a transmission that eaton makes that can give me more reverse gears. I have a fuller rtxf1409b right now. 9 speed. I really miss my old R model with the twin sticks because i could literally back and then double clutch the next gear and get her going fast which is needed for some of these tougher jobs where they want you to be a magician backing up over some really muddy conditions. It's not only that, but i need more deep end reduction for when the ground is really soft. I have a 442 rear end and when i stop on soft dirt its not so easy to get going forward or reverse without slipping the clutch which i hate doing. with the twin stick i could just put it in low 1st and then put it in direct which is basically direct first but there were no splitters needed or garbage like that. What are my options here? Just an 8LL?

Slow and Steady Wins the Race!

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The Fuller 15 isnt bad a replacement for a 9 speed. There is an Eaton Fuller 9LL that was used for a while in cement mixers up here. It has lower gears then an 8LL for off road crawling. Its good for off road but the gear steps are pretty big for on road. The Mack 12speed is huge and has its own issues but I agree with Superdog, The "crashbox" 12 speed is the best of both worlds (on and off road) TRTXL1070B I believe.

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yeah i hear great things about the mack 12 speed, kinda exactly what i want, i thought the twin stick was great for what i do, how do i even get a 12 speed? i have a fuller bell housing, so what are my options then? should i just look for a truck with a 12 speed? i only have 350k original miles on my truck right now. grrrrrr I guess i just really miss the low hole gears i had, and i dont like having only one useable reverse gear and i would also like to split the top gears mainly just overdrive because its such a big jump, 1200 rpm starts at 45 mph but even when im loaded and not climbing a hill i put it in overdrive at 35ish to get the rpm at 8-900 or so when i would really like to be at 1200 at that speed. So just a fuller 18 speed?

Slow and Steady Wins the Race!

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I'm not sure about the others on the forum but I'm seeing more and more Mack transmission failures especially the T300 series. I seldom see Macks coming in to the Canadian market with Mack trannies. Most Mack transmissions coming North now are M-Drives. The rest are Fullers for the most part.

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12 speeds are nice till they break and are expensive to fix. The 310M has it's share of problems. The T318 is better than the older 18. You would have to change the bell housing to go with a Mack trans. When I worked at Mack a lot of trucks were coming in with Fullers because Eaton had a better warranty than Mack at the time.

Cheers, Rob

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So i guess my question is, what is the best trans to get to keep the weight down, have more low hole if i need it and maybe a splitter? would i be looking at a fuller 18 then? I have been on there website a few times and looked at what a good option might be, but then the more i think about, i think if it aint broke dont fix it. I talk to plenty of people that do just fine with a 9 speed, another guy has an 8ll and said he never even really uses the low low hole on soft stuff. Most people just say its a waste of time to even consider changing it. I do however have a problem with the splitter that allows it to go from low to high or high to low though, the low gears go all the way up to 15-17mph at 1800 rpm, however if i want to get back into low from high, it sometimes grinds even when im doing 10mph or 15mph. You never know what you are going to get. If I got that part replaced or fixed would i be able to put it in low even at 18-20mph without it grinding until i actually put it into gear? That is the way it is supposed to work right?

Slow and Steady Wins the Race!

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My A-car has a 8LL O/D, which gives you lower low gears and the road speed with the over drive. not a bad trans with torque in front of it but it stinks with a little engine. Other than going to a Mack 6spd, air shift or 2 stick, I don't know of any transmissions that allow shifting in reverse from low to high and back again without the possibility of damage.

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I know when I worked for Gulino we changed the 2110B out to a T318 and by the time we were done he had spent over 10 grand with the labor. Made a world of difference in the 01 RD with the 460. The truck would get up and go better. The 2110B was the biggest piece of crap. The misfit of the Mack family for sure.

Cheers, Rob

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  • 3 weeks later...

A farmer I worked for ran Eaton fuller 18s in all his rigs, but were mostly driven like 12s. Very rarely needed to split the low box.

The bottom end of the 8ll in my roll off (and the rd) are nice and tight, but it would be nice to have the extra gears in he top end.

Lack of planning on your part does not constitute an emergency on my part....

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For your application and weight requirements you have the best truck you could get with exception of the transmission. I would be inclined to ho with an Eaton 15 speed so you don't have to change mounts, etc. The 15 speed is just like your 9 but you can split all the low range gears including reverse to a lower range, think of it as a 13 speed but you can split low range not high. The top gear in a 14615 is the same as yours so you won't change your road speed and the weight will only increase by about 45 lbs and you'll need to shorten your drive shaft by 3.8". The Mack t310m is a great trans for on/off road but if you don't treat it right it will break. The 310 had some synchro issues and if you aren't completely stopped and stay still while you flip the reverse button you'll kill the fork and synchros. With a Mack trans you'll need a different bell housing and mounts and you'll need to change some plumbing and shorten your driveshaft. I would go for the Eaton 15 seems easier and its lighter and shifts easier for those not used to a Mack trans.

"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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For your application and weight requirements you have the best truck you could get with exception of the transmission. I would be inclined to ho with an Eaton 15 speed so you don't have to change mounts, etc. The 15 speed is just like your 9 but you can split all the low range gears including reverse to a lower range, think of it as a 13 speed but you can split low range not high. The top gear in a 14615 is the same as yours so you won't change your road speed and the weight will only increase by about 45 lbs and you'll need to shorten your drive shaft by 3.8". The Mack t310m is a great trans for on/off road but if you don't treat it right it will break. The 310 had some synchro issues and if you aren't completely stopped and stay still while you flip the reverse button you'll kill the fork and synchros. With a Mack trans you'll need a different bell housing and mounts and you'll need to change some plumbing and shorten your driveshaft. I would go for the Eaton 15 seems easier and its lighter and shifts easier for those not used to a Mack trans.

I think the Fuller 15 is often overlooked. Everything you said there I agree with. If you can't handle a Mack trans, get ourself a smash and grab slop box Fuller. -Brad

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For your application and weight requirements you have the best truck you could get with exception of the transmission. I would be inclined to ho with an Eaton 15 speed so you don't have to change mounts, etc. The 15 speed is just like your 9 but you can split all the low range gears including reverse to a lower range, think of it as a 13 speed but you can split low range not high. The top gear in a 14615 is the same as yours so you won't change your road speed and the weight will only increase by about 45 lbs and you'll need to shorten your drive shaft by 3.8". The Mack t310m is a great trans for on/off road but if you don't treat it right it will break. The 310 had some synchro issues and if you aren't completely stopped and stay still while you flip the reverse button you'll kill the fork and synchros. With a Mack trans you'll need a different bell housing and mounts and you'll need to change some plumbing and shorten your driveshaft. I would go for the Eaton 15 seems easier and its lighter and shifts easier for those not used to a Mack trans.

i thought the 15 was a 10 speed with a deep reduction like an 8ll. Not something to split in low like a different 13 speed. 1 I drove had DR and could not be split. learn something new

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i thought the 15 was a 10 speed with a deep reduction like an 8ll. Not something to split in low like a different 13 speed. 1 I drove had DR and could not be split. learn something new

Well I had two 15's and yeah you can split all the low range gears in em, they are a 10 speed with an added deep reduction range I was trying to simplify my answer, I get told I tend to get too technical for some. I had two 15's over the years they are great transmissions for heavy haul or on/off road use, I actually have always shifted my 8LL's like a 15 when needed, they will split all the low range gears to deep reduction also they are just not made to do so, the 15 has heavier components for all the low range gears to handle the added torque the 8LL just has them in L so you can kill the other low range gears if you put too much load on em in deep reduction. Actually you can put an 18 spd shifter on any eaton trans with an aux box and split every gear in the trans, they just arent made to do so and youll kill em doing it, I have put an 18 spd shifter on both a 13 and an 8LL just to try it and yep it works the block to keep you from splitting the gears in the wrong range in a 8ll,13,15 is in the shifter not the trans. Actually all Eaton transmissions with auxilliary range split, 8LL, 9LL, 13,15,18 all have a deep reduction back box on them, the OD is in the main box so when the splitter is in high you are direct in the back box in low you are in deep reduction, so in a 13 speed in 8th gear low you are in a deep reduction gear and 8th gear high is 1.1, 9th gear high is .74od and 9th low is .86 because of the deep reduction split of the OD main gear. Just my two cents but for that truck if your just tired of the 9 spd go find a 15 somewhere and swap it out, youll be happy with it there is always a good gear for off highway with them and a used RTO14715 or 14915 is a lot cheaper than an 18.

"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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you got that right my RTLO20918B well in Co replaced they wanted 11k. Did it over at Robs and trans,driveline and yokes 6500. i have never been impressed with the new trans,It has shifted funcky as hell,hard shifting sometimes. I miss my old wore out box. It also ran cooler. Just waiting for it to die again or drop it and do another clutch and open it up to see how bad it looks inside. If I could find a bigger 18 I would probably get it. But was told at the time last year the 20918 was it.

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RTLO22918B or RTLO22918B-AS yep they make it in an auto shift, dont think I would want to try heavy haul with an auto shift eaton they arent real smooth, sounds like immediate driveline damamge to me. I priced an RTLO22918 once, used takeout was $9000 I changed my mind quickly, dont even ask about a reman.

"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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RTLO22918B or RTLO22918B-AS yep they make it in an auto shift, dont think I would want to try heavy haul with an auto shift eaton they arent real smooth, sounds like immediate driveline damamge to me. I priced an RTLO22918 once, used takeout was $9000 I changed my mind quickly, dont even ask about a reman.

i would of liked the 22 but was told the 20 was the biggest damn pricks. If this pos reman does die I will hunt a 22 down. or get another 20 that is apart and send it to one of the highpower diesel shops and let them go thru it and build it to like 24 or 2600fpt. also next time doing the shift tower. This trans has just never been right and was told it is normal. my old wore out trans didn't run over 200 unless I was pulling across 68 running hard. this thing looks at a hill and gets to 240 or better and not even working it hard. Been that way since it was installed.

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i would of liked the 22 but was told the 20 was the biggest damn pricks. If this pos reman does die I will hunt a 22 down. or get another 20 that is apart and send it to one of the highpower diesel shops and let them go thru it and build it to like 24 or 2600fpt. also next time doing the shift tower. This trans has just never been right and was told it is normal. my old wore out trans didn't run over 200 unless I was pulling across 68 running hard. this thing looks at a hill and gets to 240 or better and not even working it hard. Been that way since it was installed.

Have you checked your transmission cooler and pump to make sure the pump is circulating oil and the cooler isnt clogged? I have helped install bigger coolers on two heavy haul trucks in the past and it helped with the temp on long pulls, I cant remember who made them but they were about a third larger and one had an electric fan controllled by a thermostat we set it to come on at 200. I know there werent a lot of the 2218's sold in the US there are plenty in Australia but here they only go behind, 600Cat, 600 Cummins, and MP10 605 Mack engines so they are slim pickins. Supposedly you can put in the bigger input shaft and change the bearings on the counter shafts to the heavier items but I have never done it. Im kinda in the same boat right now I have an RTX14609B in my truck and a 14613 on the ground but with a turned up E9 and I am in the process of getting the parts together to get my HP way up, like800rwhp kind of up so Im not going to be able to use either one of them. I may be looking for a 2218 also so you better get one if you find it I may snag it if you dont, Im already trying to decide on a clutch, Dale Francis has a modified Lipe clutch he says is good for 3000ft lbs so i may end up with it, if not itll be a 2200 easy pedal and Ill just have to be careful as hell.

"Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin

"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH"

"You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need"

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it has a new cooler and if the pump is in the trans it was a complete reman. i am going to take the radiator/condensor of the old apu with the fan and make it a trans cooler. put a 200 or close thermostat on it and put it somewhere. I can still pull long grades but if I really put it down it will start hitting 250 and creep up. if i take it easy it still hits 240 to 250 but it will stay there. out of the 600 Cat i am putting 554 down. Looking to get either a box from Bully Dog,Pittsburgh power , or Pdi. Also even though I got a new turbo I want this waste gated thing off.

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