Mackpro

Titan to be Discontinued

161 posts in this topic

1 hour ago, bbigrig said:

All you would have to do is extend the hood.  Set back or set forward.  The chassis being shared by the VN, is ready to take all power plants.   It is that simple. 

 

Why don't they do it????? 

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There's a reason why the Titan cab sits so tall- cooling. Run for hours at full power with a headwind or worse yet crosswind and even a 13 liter engine in a low cab truck will overheat. The Titan was designed and built to pull 3 trailers at over 100 tons weight in those conditions.

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We heard from our senior salesman Volvo will discontinue the D16 in addition to the MP10 which means no 16L VNs and VNXs. Apparently both brands don't know how to sell heavy haul trucks in Canada/US (VT memories). The Aussies have figured it out but they too will get screwed in the future as the European emission engines will need to be upgraded to level 6 which have twin turbos. He told us the twin turbos will only fit in a cabover vehicle so maybe the Titan and Super Liner will be at risk in another part of the world for big power. 

 

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OK, so Volvo is pulling the 16 liter motor out of the U.S. + Canada market due to low sales... Shouldn't they be offering the Cummins 15 liter to fill that gap in their range? Or is this part of Volvo's slow withdrawal from the North American market?

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If they wanted the heavy spec market, that they once had, why wouldn't they be competitive with options like cabs, power plants, and price? I have scratched my head at this since the Titans release. I also don't understand why an ISX can not be offered in a CHU? They share the same frame as a Volvo which offers a Cummins? In my few years working at a dealer I've only seen a handful of Titans and D16's. 

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13 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

Drive a Titan......You'll change your opinion on the cab being to high. I also believe it's the same cab height as the Aussie trucks.  I had a hi/lo splitter valve on the Titan blow apart the other day. We crawled between the cab and frame to change it. Took a whole 15 minutes. 

I've driven several and worked on them.

I'm not a small guy but I regularly get my head and arms on top of a fuller Trans in a Mack Pinnacle.

 The whole cab height design for operation in North America is redundant. A hood that tall with an engine slung that low looks silly when you open the hood.  The rad height is even unnecessary for cooling.

The cab height on the Australian design on all conventional models  (including Titan) is to improve air flow/heat transfer off of the engine Trans post radiator.  That kind of air flow is not required for our climate but helps in theirs. 

The VN with D16 power and a low sloped hood and low cab prove it serves no purpose in cooling requirements here hauling 135k lbs gross through mountains.

Even the air cleaners under each side of the cab....I was at the test center in 2007 and was shown the Titan front end clip mock up with a freightliner like air cleaner on one side and that stupid decorative intake in use today.

It looked cool with external filter housings and made them more serviceable.

Why they went with under cab air filter mount???? Just to be different.....why they went with such a high hood and cab....just to be different...

Why Mack customers buy an over priced big ass tall truck they can look down on people driving.......just to be...????

The proof is in the market and the market has spoken. 

Customers here use Mp8 powered units daily to haul 135k lbs loads with the same issues a Titan would present.

Every customer here with a Titan has been disappointed in the product at our dealer level.  Maybe some of the Canadian guys on here can help me with this question I pose.....how many Mack customers here in Canada have more then 1 Titan in their fleet?  

I know of none in southern Ontario. I'm pretty sure there are a few in Quebec.

I'm happy you are happy with your Titan. I just wish they did better on the engineering of the truck from day one instead of copy and paste of the Australian day cab product at a premium price.

Edited by bbigrig
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3 hours ago, bbigrig said:

I've driven several and worked on them.

I'm not a small guy but I regularly get my head and arms on top of a fuller Trans in a Mack Pinnacle.

 The whole cab height design for operation in North America is redundant. A hood that tall with an engine slung that low looks silly when you open the hood.  The rad height is even unnecessary for cooling.

The cab height on the Australian design on all conventional models  (including Titan) is to improve air flow/heat transfer off of the engine Trans post radiator.  That kind of air flow is not required for our climate but helps in theirs. 

The VN with D16 power and a low sloped hood and low cab prove it serves no purpose in cooling requirements here hauling 135k lbs gross through mountains.

Even the air cleaners under each side of the cab....I was at the test center in 2007 and was shown the Titan front end clip mock up with a freightliner like air cleaner on one side and that stupid decorative intake in use today.

It looked cool with external filter housings and made them more serviceable.

Why they went with under cab air filter mount???? Just to be different.....why they went with such a high hood and cab....just to be different...

Why Mack customers buy an over priced big ass tall truck they can look down on people driving.......just to be...????

The proof is in the market and the market has spoken. 

Customers here use Mp8 powered units daily to haul 135k lbs loads with the same issues a Titan would present.

Every customer here with a Titan has been disappointed in the product at our dealer level.  Maybe some of the Canadian guys on here can help me with this question I pose.....how many Mack customers here in Canada have more then 1 Titan in their fleet?  

I know of none in southern Ontario. I'm pretty sure there are a few in Quebec.

I'm happy you are happy with your Titan. I just wish they did better on the engineering of the truck from day one instead of copy and paste of the Australian day cab product at a premium price.

I'm pretty sure they brought the Australian Titan to North America was because people wanted it here but they priced it a little too high and didn't offer sleepers.  We didn't buy them to look down on anyone. We bought because we wanted a mack truck that would haul the heavy loads without compromise. We payed the extra 10 grand, which amounts to a couple hundred a month more than a Western Star. When your talking about payment of 2500 or 2700, what's the difference?  I think the mp8 being rated at 505 hp certainly cannibalized Titan sales as it is enough power for most. But at the time, when we bought ours, the granite only offered a 505 with 1760 torque which was the same as the 460 etechs we had that didn't really do the job that great. Someone said the D16 is done in North America for volvo as well so there pulling out of heavy haul altogether.  The only real issue we had the titans is the corrosion of the grill and air cleaners,mack lied to us and said they were developing a new grill and air cleaners and that wouldn't corrode and they'd be giving it to us under warranty I doubt that will happen now as they discontinued and cut and run . Pathetic. 

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3 hours ago, bbigrig said:

Every customer here with a Titan has been disappointed in the product at our dealer level.  Maybe some of the Canadian guys on here can help me with this question I pose.....how many Mack customers here in Canada have more then 1 Titan in their fleet?  

I know of none in southern Ontario. I'm pretty sure there are a few in Quebec.

Kawartha Capital Construction (Peterborough, Ont) has multiple tri-axle Titan dumps. They are the only company I can think of that runs more than one in Ontario - majority seem to be single purchase float tractors.

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7 minutes ago, Jaws612 said:

Kawartha Capital Construction (Peterborough, Ont) has multiple tri-axle Titan dumps. They are the only company I can think of that runs more than one in Ontario - majority seem to be single purchase float tractors.

They bought 5 from Durham Mack....not happy already. May have more to do with the dealer. They also have Granites doing the same job for a lesser purchase price. 

That and the Granite tare weight is less. So every load they haul on a Titan it's less pay in the box.

They were a Paccar fleet.  Too many issues with Cummins power.

Edited by bbigrig
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2 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

My trucks will have 58,000 pounds on their back as a STRAIGHT truck. Gross 91,000 lbs. This on a approx 40 foot truck. The ONLY truck I have driven and seen comparable was a Western Star. It had a Detroit and weighed about a ton heavier than my Titans.   It sat just as high too. Paccar, granite, Freightliner and IH do not make a truck as rigorous. Sure I could buy a t800 and double the frame  but I promise it will not handle as well or last as long. 

Yeah I've been on the scales at a paper mill next to western stars with dd 16 's and set up basically the same as me and I'm a little lighter . There's alot of myths about titans out there but it's water over the dam now. 

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5 hours ago, Dirtymilkman said:

My trucks will have 58,000 pounds on their back as a STRAIGHT truck. Gross 91,000 lbs. This on a approx 40 foot truck. The ONLY truck I have driven and seen comparable was a Western Star. It had a Detroit and weighed about a ton heavier than my Titans.   It sat just as high too. Paccar, granite, Freightliner and IH do not make a truck as rigorous. Sure I could buy a t800 and double the frame  but I promise it will not handle as well or last as long. 

Dont overlook that's a Volvo frame you are sitting on. almost everything you have on that truck comes on a truck without the dog.  

I keep forgetting that too. 

But I'm sure Western star will be the next order.

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This doesn't surprise me. I've been pricing Mack's for next truck, but prices are way out of line. So I showed dealers the 4900 Star I spec'd, same as my current one, but with the DD16 600.....fully loaded, leather interior, heated seats, full gauge package, dual breathers, light bars under cab and on breathers, air ride, etc.

What did they counter with? A rubber block Granite with the base interior, low back seats, no gauges.....for 20 grand more, LOL.

Ya.....I wanna get out of my loaded truck to get into a plain jane fleet spec. NOT.

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5 minutes ago, Bullheaded said:

This doesn't surprise me. I've been pricing Mack's for next truck, but prices are way out of line. So I showed dealers the 4900 Star I spec'd, same as my current one, but with the DD16 600.....fully loaded, leather interior, heated seats, full gauge package, dual breathers, light bars under cab and on breathers, air ride, etc.

What did they counter with? A rubber block Granite with the base interior, low back seats, no gauges.....for 20 grand more, LOL.

Ya.....I wanna get out of my loaded truck to get into a plain jane fleet spec. NOT.

Bet they quoted you on a stock or soon to be built unit to boot.... ouch.

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9 hours ago, Bullheaded said:

This doesn't surprise me. I've been pricing Mack's for next truck, but prices are way out of line. So I showed dealers the 4900 Star I spec'd, same as my current one, but with the DD16 600.....fully loaded, leather interior, heated seats, full gauge package, dual breathers, light bars under cab and on breathers, air ride, etc.

What did they counter with? A rubber block Granite with the base interior, low back seats, no gauges.....for 20 grand more, LOL.

Ya.....I wanna get out of my loaded truck to get into a plain jane fleet spec. NOT.

99 percent chance our next one will be a western star 

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If Mack was going to offer a replacement option to the Titan, you would think they would roll it out before dropping the Titan and creating all of this ill will. Sounds like they may be thinking of a piece meal replacement. I am not sure if you could get a Titan frame on a Granite but that would be a start along with a hood that could accommodate a 15 liter Cummins. I don't hold out hope for a well thought out replacement as it took them almost ten years to roll out an LE update.:(

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:DAre the titan frames like the old RD's or heavier?  terry

Edited by terry

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It's hard to say since they don't offer spec sheets on the Mack website anymore. Just fluff sheets. Maybe milkman or log truck man would know. I guess the true test of the frames would be coal country where the Titan never caught on like the RD and DM 800's. Funny thing is I believe the Aussie Mack web site still gives out spec sheets. Seems like Australia Mack is ahead of the curve compared to the US.

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The main rail on ours is bigger than our superliner and CL . They are measured in metric units but I think it's like 7/16 thick. The inside rail is smaller. They're deep as well. Triple frame was an option as well.

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Just my $.02, but it seems like the heavy duty vocational market is just too small for the builders to pay attention to. My bet is that in the long run economics will eventually cause the market to be left in one builder's hand; my bet is Western Star. I think you will be able to spec out a Paccar product to be equivalent, but it will come at a premium price for those who just have to have a Paccar product.

I also see an opportunity for someone who wants to roll the dice and get into building trucks for the HD vocational market. Possibly upgrading an existing product or maybe even going whole hog and doing a complete truck like Hendrickson. Maybe even Caterpillar will dip their toe back into the market now that the economy is back on track.  

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Bring back the Hendrickson truck. That would be nice. Hendrickson is still in business. They certainly have the suspensions for the heavy haul market.  Throw in a beefy frame vendor engines and drive train and you are good to go. No distribution network though. Make an offer for Mack. Hendrickson and Mack used to be strong competitors in the Midwest.

Edited by james j neiweem

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