Mack 9 speed to 18 speed

[DieselDog5.9]

Have a CV713 Granite, with an AI 400 that is finicky to drive, (working on the cure following the dead dog thread closely) however just need more gears.

Current Transmission is a Mack T309L/LL    great low speed reverse and low gear, short on gears in the high side, the rpm spread in the gears is to wide for the limited rpm range the Ai400 makes power in, and a mean shifting SOB.

Solution: picked up a transmission the owner states is and 18 speed, makes noise when on the low side.   This transmission is a T2180, not sure about any particulars, suchs as gearing and what not, my truck being an 03 would be a 300 series transmission, is this T2180 a bad choice? 

I have a lot of experience rebuilding Eaton Fuller transmissions, I have rebuilt the back box on a Mack 18 speed 300 series (318L/LL Maybe) and the parts are somewhat pricey for the HI/LO clutch pack from Mack.

Originally I was going to swap a Fuller 18 but thought going mack for mack would be less fabrication an coming up with parts.

[Dirtymilkman]

That's a good transmission if the updates are done. There's a shaft to replace with a wider snap ring and a few other things. There is 2 different 2180 trannys. The reverses are geared differently. I like the low geared one. 

[theakerstwo]

I had a extended reverse mack 18 speed and the thing i didnt like was it was geared to low in reverse.It would be ok for some jobs but if you have to back up very for i would use it in hi range.

[880joe]

I believe the 2180b is the one with the slow reverse

[DieselDog5.9]

Does someone have a chart with the ratios for both transmissions so I can compare.

They made a 2100 ft/lbs torque version IIRC, for the cummins and Cats that you could get, Odd to me you would get a Cummins engine and choose a Mack transmission but I guess. I thought that was the 2180B

It would appear they are the same front box, but the rear box makes the 9 vs 18.

I have 4:64 rears and with the 9 speed it is just right for a trailer, 70mph is out of the question, I think the 18 speed would give me a reverse with a high split.

I did a 6spd to 12 speed swap before, and they apparently had an off road version and an on road version well just my luck I put a highway trans in a dump truck, worked out better than the 6 speed but still would have liked the off road version. 12 speeds are hard to find.

That extra gear between 8th and 9th is really what I am after.

Edited December 16, 2021 by DieselDog5.9
Inaccurate gear ratio

[Steve L]

The 12 speed is the best gearbox ever made, they are easy to drive around town and have even splits between gears. They don’t whine and ring like most 18s, and you can’t kill a 12 even with 500+ hp pulling 100+ ton.  The only downside is they are not suited for a dump truck unless you find the right PTO which is near impossible. 

[fjh]

Even thou I am Mack Guy If owned a truck I would go Fuller 18 for the very reason stated above PARTS! You can repair /rebuild a fuller for 1/2 the price of the Mack trans! The only draw back is you need to find a Mack bell housing because of the mounts and the clutch shaft arrangements ! The 12 speed is the best dump trans as stated not viable for the reasons stated!

Just me!

[terry]

7 hours ago, DieselDog5.9 said:

Does someone have a chart with the ratios for both transmissions so I can compare.

They made a 2100 ft/lbs torque version IIRC, for the cummins and Cats that you could get, Odd to me you would get a Cummins engine and choose a Mack transmission but I guess. I thought that was the 2180B

It would appear they are the same front box, but the rear box makes the 9 vs 18.

I have 6:17 rears and with the 9 speed it is just right for a trailer, 70mph is out of the question, I think the 18 speed would give me a reverse with a high split.

I did a 6spd to 12 speed swap before, and they apparently had an off road version and an on road version well just my luck I put a highway trans in a dump truck, worked out better than the 6 speed but still would have liked the off road version. 12 speeds are hard to find.

That extra gear between 8th and 9th is really what I am after.

On them 12 speeds there was a overdrive, which most are, had a direct and overdrive on the split, but some of the early ones were a direct, which was a underdrive and direct on the split.

[Mark T]

6.17s with an 18  😳 ? 

[DieselDog5.9]

3 hours ago, Mark T said:

6.17s with an 18  😳 ? 

Woops, I made a mistake, just went to the file to verify from the specifications Mack gave us from the VIN:

4:64 rears

T309L Transmission

[DieselDog5.9]

11 hours ago, fjh said:

Even thou I am Mack Guy If owned a truck I would go Fuller 18 for the very reason stated above PARTS! You can repair /rebuild a fuller for 1/2 the price of the Mack trans! The only draw back is you need to find a Mack bell housing because of the mounts and the clutch shaft arrangements ! The 12 speed is the best dump trans as stated not viable for the reasons stated!

Just me!

I would have to buy a fuller 18 speed $5,000, find the fuller linkage and bell housing, Lengthen the drive shaft.

I have $1200 into the Mack 18 speed.

[Mark T]

4.64s and an 18 is a pretty decent combination.  6.17s it'd too out about 60 mph

[DieselDog5.9]

As it is 65 mph is 1800 rpm

[DieselDog5.9]

A few buddies of mine LOVE the 12 speed in dump trucks.  I could sell every 12speed I could get my hands on.

[kt_Engineer]

On 12/14/2021 at 7:02 PM, DieselDog5.9 said:

Have a CV713 Granite, with an AI 400 that is finicky to drive, (working on the cure following the dead dog thread closely) however just need more gears.

Current Transmission is a Mack T309L/LL    great low speed reverse and low gear, short on gears in the high side, the rpm spread in the gears is to wide for the limited rpm range the Ai400 makes power in, and a mean shifting SOB.

Solution: picked up a transmission the owner states is and 18 speed, makes noise when on the low side.   This transmission is a T2180, not sure about any particulars, suchs as gearing and what not, my truck being an 03 would be a 300 series transmission, is this T2180 a bad choice? 

I have a lot of experience rebuilding Eaton Fuller transmissions, I have rebuilt the back box on a Mack 18 speed 300 series (318L/LL Maybe) and the parts are somewhat pricey for the HI/LO clutch pack from Mack.

Originally I was going to swap a Fuller 18 but thought going mack for mack would be less fabrication an coming up with parts.

If you rebuilt T318 and T318LR then T2180 is not a bad choice. T318 is evolution of T2180 with some improvements. Gear ratios should be very identical.

[fjh]

15 minutes ago, kt_Engineer said:

If you rebuilt T318 and T318LR then T2180 is not a bad choice. T318 is evolution of T2180 with some improvements. Gear ratios should be very identical.

You won't regret putting the fuller in ! ( My opinion) The 18 may be less work fab wise how ever you will only fab once! 2180 You may have the back section off several times if your unlucky! at 3000 - to 5000 a pop adds up fast !  I have seen these last a long time, I have seen them fail quite a bit more often! 

Just sayin!

Your call!

[67RModel]

My anecdote on this is a friend of mine owned a trucking company up until he sold out a few years ago. He had about 35-40 trucks (all Mack mostly Granites) in vocational and short line haul applications. He would generally buy used trucks and the transmission was always the wild card of the spec. They usually had Eaton 8LLs or some variety of Mack T310 or T310M. Most of the trucks got abused some more than others. He is a die hard Mack guy but never had anything good to say about the Mack transmissions from his experience. He said he could get a Fuller rebuilt for less than half of what a Mack unit costs and could get a reman Fuller unit the next day for half the cost or less of a Mack reman. Plus the Fullers could take the abuse - they just keep  going. The Mack transmissions had significantly more failures in his fleet. I know we are talking 18 speeds here but I think the overall consensus on this site and just about everywhere else is its really hard to beat and Eaton Fuller transmission and its almost impossible to economically justify a Mack transmission over an Eaton. 

[67RModel]

Also, I guess it depends on how long you plan to keep the truck whether or not doing all the fabricating for the Eaton is worth it. Plus I think on resale (if you ever decide to do so) you will appeal to a much larger group of buyers if it has an Eaton transmission in it.....

[BOBWhite]

Any updates on this? Im planing on doing the same to a 1985 Mack Mh with the e6 motor and was thinking of swapping in a 2180. Im a fan of an all Mack driveline myself but I learned to drive on an Eaton 13 speed and I can confirm that they just won't break.