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Mack AI460 AI427 AMI low torque low horsepower poor fuel mileage granite , dead dog , remediation

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 12:03 PM, Mack Technician said:

First I'd like to send a note to any other clueless BMT newbies..... NEVER click the delete at the bottom of your "New Topic" page "moderation action" unless you want to lose all three pages of your post.  I'm dedicating this second post series to all truck owners who regretted buying an AI Granite and as a memorial for all the awesome tips from NELM and MACKPRO that I cast into eternal cyber damnation.  

MT I have a friend that bought one of the AI400s at a Gov.auction for a replacement engine. The trouble is the truck has the E7 and he is wanting to install the AI400. Can it be done? 

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On ‎12‎/‎15‎/‎2018 at 8:55 AM, bjohnson1781 said:

So the AI400 can not just be installed as is in a truck that had the E7?  If not can parts from the E7 be installed on the AI400 like the heads,camshaft and other parts? I think he should have checked on this before buying the engine. I drove a Granite with  the AI engine and it was a gutless piece of junk. I'll get more info on the year of truck. Thanks for the info.

ASET heads have water jacket updates & head gasket is different, larger nozzle sleeve holder and also has no injector leakage drain-back. Addition of an Idler between crank and cami ASET means power steering and compressor rotate in the opposite direction of an E7. Vibration Dampner hub on ASET is 3/8” shorter than E7. Not certain on this but pushtube holes in head of ASET May have 4 degrees more tilt. I can’t tell if all E-Tech up have the addition of 4 degrees or just ASET heads. Your 2001 current engine MAY be CCRS, that was the year of inception. In which case your camshaft, EUP’s(exchangeable, but not shared), lifters, pushtubes and valve train will be shared parts. The lifters could be steel and not ceramic on the 01. ASET should be ceramic. Inspect the old motor for the little fuel return tube between front&rear head and return fitting barb to confirm CCRS. If you had an AI300 it could have the same, old school, front water pump design, since it is above 300 you will have a completely different water pump/housing design. 

You might have good luck selling it right here on BMT. Couple months ago I spent a week trying to find one of these with AlexanderMack. All we could locate was AI300’s everywhere with the old style water pump system. He had to pay extra labor (and no useable x-tra spare parts) to have the engine converted to the higher horse cooling system package. There was a member who had the right motor for sale, but he was MIA. 

Edited by Mack Technician

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Ok folks I started with 2006 granite with ami 370hp 13 sp fuller and 4.17 mack rears that I called the "boat anchor" when I first bought it.   Hauling road construction materials, heavy equipment, and grain so loads vary from 70,000 to 85000 lbs.  sluggish, no low end tourque, terrible fuel millage, and just tough to drive in the hills was a far cry from my old ch with a 400 or even my old r models with 350.  So I went to work on here and learned how to make these trucks run.  My first step was to take my 370 to 427, which I did in by having my local injector shop resize the injectors and then drove to local mack dealership to have it set to 427.  Results...better definitely than before and was somewhat ok with how it ran so I ran it all season that way.  This fall I decided to go a little further and do the conversion that macktechnician has done on here.  I however started in reverse order to see what would happen.  I started by leaving everything alone and putting the full 5'' exhaust system on and noticed no real difference other than it sounded a lot better with the flow threw muffler.  Next I installed the etech manifold and the s 400 turbo and noticed a little bit of pick up but not much at all.   also boost went from 32lbs to 30lbs when doing so.  Finally I installed the injectors from mike at k and s.  The truck is now a completely different truck.  Low end tourque and lug is back where its supposed to be, power is awesome when you need it but the thing that I find most impressive about it is just how easy the engine has to work now obviously less pedal and less work to drive.  Less shifting.  As far as millage goes it definitely didn't go down any doing some of the same runs as before but that's hard to tell this time of year with winter time fuel and heavier loads.  An amazing, relatively inexpensive(I figure I had $2000 in parts, I got a turbo dirt cheap) creation that anyone that knows anything about trucks can do in there own shop.  Mach technician has done a great job of listing part numbers, pictures, and information on this topic.  with out this a lot of us would be still unhappy campers and cussing mack every day!  thanks again!

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22 hours ago, Mackvette1 said:

Ok folks I started with 2006 granite with ami 370hp 13 sp fuller and 4.17 mack rears that I called the "boat anchor" when I first bought it.   Hauling road construction materials, heavy equipment, and grain so loads vary from 70,000 to 85000 lbs.  sluggish, no low end tourque, terrible fuel millage, and just tough to drive in the hills was a far cry from my old ch with a 400 or even my old r models with 350.  So I went to work on here and learned how to make these trucks run.  My first step was to take my 370 to 427, which I did in by having my local injector shop resize the injectors and then drove to local mack dealership to have it set to 427.  Results...better definitely than before and was somewhat ok with how it ran so I ran it all season that way.  This fall I decided to go a little further and do the conversion that macktechnician has done on here.  I however started in reverse order to see what would happen.  I started by leaving everything alone and putting the full 5'' exhaust system on and noticed no real difference other than it sounded a lot better with the flow threw muffler.  Next I installed the etech manifold and the s 400 turbo and noticed a little bit of pick up but not much at all.   also boost went from 32lbs to 30lbs when doing so.  Finally I installed the injectors from mike at k and s.  The truck is now a completely different truck.  Low end tourque and lug is back where its supposed to be, power is awesome when you need it but the thing that I find most impressive about it is just how easy the engine has to work now obviously less pedal and less work to drive.  Less shifting.  As far as millage goes it definitely didn't go down any doing some of the same runs as before but that's hard to tell this time of year with winter time fuel and heavier loads.  An amazing, relatively inexpensive(I figure I had $2000 in parts, I got a turbo dirt cheap) creation that anyone that knows anything about trucks can do in there own shop.  Mach technician has done a great job of listing part numbers, pictures, and information on this topic.  with out this a lot of us would be still unhappy campers and cussing mack every day!  thanks again!

Great returns Mackvette!!! :clap:

 

Edited by Mack Technician

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On 6/22/2017 at 7:48 AM, Mack Technician said:

NELM! The only Greeney was the "green-horn" who didn't realize delete means everything!

Mine was 2002 CH613. My old cohorts at the Truck Center said they grabbed manifolds all the way back to PLN..... Just watch out for CL chassis with E7 manifold which tilts upward.

Is there a specific part number for this manifold?

 

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On 6/22/2017 at 1:02 PM, Mack Technician said:

AI restrictor left                                                                                                E7-Etech right

Mounting height/depth/angle/position of turbo is perfectly matched, no adjustments needed.

594bf81a8a674_41manifoldcomparisonAIVs_Pre.thumb.jpg.37b5e77d22c043d24a0d092dfe9457e2.jpg

can someone explain the term AI to us village idiots please?

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The AI engine came in the 2004-2007 CV, CT, LE, MR and a few of the last RD’s. It was basically a CCRS ETECH with a restrictive exhaust manifold  and different camshaft and turbo and injectors. The camshaft has 2 bumps on the exhaust lobe so as the piston is comeing down the exhaust valve opens again and sucks dirty exhaust back into the cylinder to be burned again. They went this route on the vocational trucks. On the road tractors  they used the AC engine which had a traditional camshaft but has a EGR valve and EGR cooler. The AI engine was reliable but not very powerful and the AC had better power but EGR coolers and the VGT turbos were it’s downfall in some cases. 

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Not sure where to start with my questions. I have been reading everything I can find regarding how to squeak a bit more oomph from my 2006 AI427 Granite. Truck was originally a fleet asphalt hauler from Iowa. Its rigged as a Strong Industry's 7 axel super dump. GVW 80k. Hauls around 25 ton of material. Love the truck very quiet and smooth ride. I upgraded from a 1977 RL788 so needless to say its a tad better. I am acquiring the parts to make the changes Mack Technician has called for on this form. And intend to start the conversion late March. My first question Is there any special order regarding what to do first? I plan on making the changes in 3-4 steps in order to keep the truck working part time. My next question is ECM updates/ upgrades. The closet Volvo dealer is 1 1/2 hr. drive. Although they handle Mack service. They don't seem enthused in helping me with Mack stuff. So the closest Real Mack dealer is 3 1/2hr. drive through a couple mountain passes. With record snow this year I am not excited in making that trip. Neither shop would give me info over the phone regarding updates. My vin is (last 6) 697965. Hoping someone on this form could cross reference and tell me if any updates are needed. Save me from a long drive that may not be productive.  Thanks in advance for any advise.

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30 minutes ago, byrohoe said:

Not sure where to start with my questions. I have been reading everything I can find regarding how to squeak a bit more oomph from my 2006 AI427 Granite. Truck was originally a fleet asphalt hauler from Iowa. Its rigged as a Strong Industry's 7 axel super dump. GVW 80k. Hauls around 25 ton of material. Love the truck very quiet and smooth ride. I upgraded from a 1977 RL788 so needless to say its a tad better. I am acquiring the parts to make the changes Mack Technician has called for on this form. And intend to start the conversion late March. My first question Is there any special order regarding what to do first? I plan on making the changes in 3-4 steps in order to keep the truck working part time. My next question is ECM updates/ upgrades. The closet Volvo dealer is 1 1/2 hr. drive. Although they handle Mack service. They don't seem enthused in helping me with Mack stuff. So the closest Real Mack dealer is 3 1/2hr. drive through a couple mountain passes. With record snow this year I am not excited in making that trip. Neither shop would give me info over the phone regarding updates. My vin is (last 6) 697965. Hoping someone on this form could cross reference and tell me if any updates are needed. Save me from a long drive that may not be productive.  Thanks in advance for any advise.

That Vin doesn’t sound correct. The last 6 should start with a 0. You might be looking at the sequence number instead of the Vin. For some reason Mack starting putting “sequence “ number stickers on the door jamb and things got mixed up a lot back then 

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Posted (edited)
36 minutes ago, byrohoe said:

Not sure where to start with my questions. I have been reading everything I can find regarding how to squeak a bit more oomph from my 2006 AI427 Granite. Truck was originally a fleet asphalt hauler from Iowa. Its rigged as a Strong Industry's 7 axel super dump. GVW 80k. Hauls around 25 ton of material. Love the truck very quiet and smooth ride. I upgraded from a 1977 RL788 so needless to say its a tad better. I am acquiring the parts to make the changes Mack Technician has called for on this form. And intend to start the conversion late March. My first question Is there any special order regarding what to do first? I plan on making the changes in 3-4 steps in order to keep the truck working part time. My next question is ECM updates/ upgrades. The closet Volvo dealer is 1 1/2 hr. drive. Although they handle Mack service. They don't seem enthused in helping me with Mack stuff. So the closest Real Mack dealer is 3 1/2hr. drive through a couple mountain passes. With record snow this year I am not excited in making that trip. Neither shop would give me info over the phone regarding updates. My vin is (last 6) 697965. Hoping someone on this form could cross reference and tell me if any updates are needed. Save me from a long drive that may not be productive.  Thanks in advance for any advise.

The injectors, manifold, turbo. Can all be done in one day.  If you have all of them available and on site.  I would reset the valves while you are at it, and the valve cover is already off.

Edited by OldRedMack
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On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:00 AM, Mudman74 said:

Is there a specific part number for this manifold?

 

A new manifold is going to run you $900. Try to find a take-off. I included the service bulletin for high temp manifold part number. If you buy a complete manifold it will come in three pieces. The two end pieces are the same number, get the high temp center regardless of HP rating. Finding more people are dealing with elevated E.G.temps (even in HP ranges under 460) which justifies the high temp center investment.

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Posted (edited)
On 3/4/2019 at 10:40 AM, byrohoe said:

Not sure where to start with my questions. I have been reading everything I can find regarding how to squeak a bit more oomph from my 2006 AI427 Granite. Truck was originally a fleet asphalt hauler from Iowa. Its rigged as a Strong Industry's 7 axel super dump. GVW 80k. Hauls around 25 ton of material. Love the truck very quiet and smooth ride. I upgraded from a 1977 RL788 so needless to say its a tad better. I am acquiring the parts to make the changes Mack Technician has called for on this form. And intend to start the conversion late March. My first question Is there any special order regarding what to do first? I plan on making the changes in 3-4 steps in order to keep the truck working part time. My next question is ECM updates/ upgrades. The closet Volvo dealer is 1 1/2 hr. drive. Although they handle Mack service. They don't seem enthused in helping me with Mack stuff. So the closest Real Mack dealer is 3 1/2hr. drive through a couple mountain passes. With record snow this year I am not excited in making that trip. Neither shop would give me info over the phone regarding updates. My vin is (last 6) 697965. Hoping someone on this form could cross reference and tell me if any updates are needed. Save me from a long drive that may not be productive.  Thanks in advance for any advise.

Agree, CV is a nice truck to drive.

You can do anything in any order basically, as common sense dictates since the parts all overlap in some manner...(manifold, injector, turbo). Expect to break a stud or two on the top row. I broke 2. One extracted, one got dissolved in chassis. I drill the stud center till I'm almost touching threads then go down the center of the drill hole with a high speed (ball) burr. I burr-grind a lollypop at the end of the tunnel then roll the thread shell into the void I created and pull pieces out. Don't get too wild on the burr since you don't want to touch oil or coolant.

 

Edited by Mack Technician

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If possible, keep the studs soaked in penetrating fluid for a couple days before you try to remove the manifold.

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On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2019 at 8:00 AM, Mudman74 said:

Is there a specific part number for this manifold?

 

Ends are 21090679 (104GC5164M-old number) $284.06, of which you need 2.

Center is a 21090730, $203.99 (Both 104GC5165M3 (high temp center) and 104GC5165M (regular application) supersede to same number.... 21090730).

 

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Wanted to thank responders, I am feeling a lot more confident undertaking this conversion. Also appreciate the heads up on frozen studs/nuts on manifold removal. Experience has taught me these 6hr jobs can easily be 2 days (+ extra $ ) when dealing with stuck or broken nuts and bolts. Think I may split any nuts that give me a fit in a attempt to avoid rethreading. Thanks Mackpro for the upgrades help.  I goofed on VIN the # is 067965 Its a 07 Granite but the engine shows 2006. Although the truck runs good it seems a few horses short than the advertised HP. Not long ago I would  rather be locked in a room with my ex mother- in-law than work on trucks. But I am kind of looking forward to this project.

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If your well stocked on printer paper Mack E-Media has a free download of the service manual “ASET AI/AMI Engine Service Manual”, it’s publication 5-110. I bought a printed manual via the dealership not long ago, or you can order off this site...

 

Go to Item Description and click on view file to download free copy.

https://macktrucks.vg-emedia.com/ProductDetail.aspx?ProductId=6147&GroupId=413

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Thanks Mack Technician for this post its beyond helpful.Turns out my Mack Granite is up to date (according to Mackpro ) (Thanks Mackpro) Its fantastic that you guys take the time to help a complete stranger. Not a lot of Mack here on the west coast.  I also appreciate the link for service manual download. Its something I've been needing for a while. Gearing up for the start of this conversion and will be starting soon. Question though is it necessary to replace the fuel lines? most everything I read says to replace them with new, but seems to me to be a bit of overkill. I already have the exhaust manifold and most of the rest of parts is on order. One cost that surprised me is the gaskets for manifold but gotta have them oh well. Really looking forward to starting this project

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On 3/22/2019 at 9:20 AM, byrohoe said:

Thanks Mack Technician for this post its beyond helpful.Turns out my Mack Granite is up to date (according to Mackpro ) (Thanks Mackpro) Its fantastic that you guys take the time to help a complete stranger. Not a lot of Mack here on the west coast.  I also appreciate the link for service manual download. Its something I've been needing for a while. Gearing up for the start of this conversion and will be starting soon. Question though is it necessary to replace the fuel lines? most everything I read says to replace them with new, but seems to me to be a bit of overkill. I already have the exhaust manifold and most of the rest of parts is on order. One cost that surprised me is the gaskets for manifold but gotta have them oh well. Really looking forward to starting this project

If they are original, and you have the cash, replace them. Otherwise run them. Most of the injector line fires occurred on ASET AC engine and not the ASET AI engines (like yours). 

Did you shop PAI for parts cost?

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Is the 12b flash needed even when upgrading from 370hp to 427hp?

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46 minutes ago, R.E.D said:

Is the 12b flash needed even when upgrading from 370hp to 427hp?

Shouldn’t.

The throttle response software (12b) loads to the vehicle ECU. Your HP upgrade will change the engine ECU software. So they are only related by marriage. 

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Thought so.im at 9b now and wondered if I would need to ask for both software updates when all parts were installed in the truck.now just need to find a willing dealership to do my hp upgrade.

Thanks

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REMACK BUYER BEWARE.....( OR AWARE)

Heard a blood curdler this morning. Remack may be suffering from GEA(gray engine amnesia) too?   

 

Guy goes to a shop in Southern Wi (unconfirmed if it was Mack Dealership), truck is in need of tuning. Its an E-Tech (Pre-CCRS/ASET). Shop sets him up with a new set of remack injectors and some touching up. Truck runs just as bad or worse. Power is poor. Driver checks, fuel consumption is up. EGT's are consistently high. Customer begins a circle pattern of returning to the shop with complaints and failures for nearly 2 years. Over the course of the two years the truck consumes 4 turbos, 2 manifolds and finally cracks a head. Customer takes truck north 2 hours to the Mack dealership and suspect injectors go to the injection shop. Injection shop service man disassembles the injectors and finds the right tip in the wrong injector body. Remack put the right E-Tech tips into the wrong CCRS injector body's and bagged it. The CCRS injector body doesn't have a leakage hole or lower o-ring. The parts man gave the mechanic the right bag and the mechanic unfortunately didn't catch the different injector body configuration.

 

Mack predicts(page 2 caution) a mismatch would have ruptured the seal at the fuel line connection to injector...…...

SB.pdf

 

          

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