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Trump and Immigration (Illegal Immigrants in the US)

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'41 Chevy, that's the earlier version of the NAS current report. And right from the report, here's the conclusion: "Overall U.S. Economy Gains From Immigration,
But It's Costly to Some States and Localities". 

 

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Billy T, there's no way to verify that $170/day rate, and it sounds like propaganda from Big Ag. Truth is, in this century big growers in Florida have been convicted of enslaving farm workers. To give you an idea of what these Big Ag factory farms are doing, we have a couple near 10,000 cow dairies near me that almost exclusively employ noncitizen immigrants under one of the visa programs. The "farm" is basically a company town, with a million square foot "barn" and manure lagoons right next to a cheaply built apartment building that houses the workers. The workers are notable in the census data for the townships these factory farms are located in, with 30-40 farm workers they kinda stick out in a township with a population of only a couple hundred. Those census stats show a similar number of renters as there are workers at the "farms", and they're paying almost $1000 a month in rent- That's double the market rate for rent in nearby towns. These workers are brought here under a program that requires that they be skilled workers with 4 year college degrees, yet the census tells us that there are far fewer people with college degrees in the township than there are workers at the "farms"... Clearly there is fraud afoot here. The income data from the census shows a much smaller number of $170 a day workers than the "farms" employ.

So sounds like that $170 a day might be a gross figure for a 16 hour day, and before the labor contractor's cut and other deductions are made.

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14 hours ago, gearhead204 said:

they have to have a SS # and the employer must withhold SS and all other payroll deductions  they pay local and state sales tax....now if that ss # doesn't belong to them, they can't file taxes on it. so the government gets added income!.... the catch is the few problem workers that end up either being jailed or hospitalized. Those do cost us money. 

So how would an illegal alien be able to obtain a SS#?  Even if they could why would they since they usually are paid under the table which is why they come here in the first place. 

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6 hours ago, HeavyGunner said:

So how would an illegal alien be able to obtain a SS#?  Even if they could why would they since they usually are paid under the table which is why they come here in the first place. 

There are people that set them up with the "necessities" to the point that we cannot tell who's legit and who's not. About every other year, I will get a notice that I may have had an unauthorized worker. When you think about it, why would a guy work under the table for min. wage when if above the table, they can make often triple min. wage? 

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Saw an interesting factoid in the report on immigrant labor.Immigration has helped build and maintain the textile industry! I was unaware America still had a textile industry! It has been years since I've seen an American made article of clothing including Carhardt,levis and other iconic brands! Ironically many brands are made in Pakistan a Sharia law state that has sworn " death to  Americans" Also,textile jobs while often difficult and repetitious are not a job Americans are unwilling to do such as poultry and meat processing and crop harvesting! Which are almost 100percent immigrant labor,legal and otherwise!

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Teamster Grrrl, while I'm sure gearhead 204 didn't make up the 170 wage, there may be some hidden deductions he's unaware of. It is both tragic and ironic that some things never change! I'm familiar with the enslavement of migrants down here in the citrus industry. They were locked in their camps and not permitted to leave during the harvesting season! The dairy farm you mentioned reminds me of an investigative report I saw in the 60s on Charlie Cannons town,Cannons Mills NC. Where the textile workers were "required" to buy everything they needed from Charlies company store, at his prices of course! Rent their houses from him and go to his doctors (where of course they were never sick enough to take off work!) The movie Norma Rae was based on Cannons Mills.Another excellent report was Edward R Morrows "Harvest of Shame" about migrant workers. The same abuses took place in the coal industry in WV, Kentucky and that area with the company stores and coal and iron police( thugs and Pinkertons). You mentioned the manure lagoon and I was reminded of an enormous feeder lot of I 10 in E Texas there was a mobile home smack in the middle of the cattle pens. The smell is indescribable, but I'm thinking a worker family lives there! I forget the term,but this all goes back to the middle ages when the king literally owned the peasants! I'm not a migrants advocate, but they are human beings!

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7 hours ago, BillyT said:

Teamster Grrrl, while I'm sure gearhead 204 didn't make up the 170 wage, there may be some hidden deductions he's unaware of. It is both tragic and ironic that some things never change! I'm familiar with the enslavement of migrants down here in the citrus industry. They were locked in their camps and not permitted to leave during the harvesting season! The dairy farm you mentioned reminds me of an investigative report I saw in the 60s on Charlie Cannons town,Cannons Mills NC. Where the textile workers were "required" to buy everything they needed from Charlies company store, at his prices of course! Rent their houses from him and go to his doctors (where of course they were never sick enough to take off work!) The movie Norma Rae was based on Cannons Mills.Another excellent report was Edward R Morrows "Harvest of Shame" about migrant workers. The same abuses took place in the coal industry in WV, Kentucky and that area with the company stores and coal and iron police( thugs and Pinkertons). You mentioned the manure lagoon and I was reminded of an enormous feeder lot of I 10 in E Texas there was a mobile home smack in the middle of the cattle pens. The smell is indescribable, but I'm thinking a worker family lives there! I forget the term,but this all goes back to the middle ages when the king literally owned the peasants! I'm not a migrants advocate, but they are human beings!

Billy T: I used an avg. daily wage for pickers during sweet cherry harvest. I have a few guys that do closer to 250 bucks a day, and some of the slower guys do around 140 a day. It costs me around 24 cents a pound to harvest plus housing.  I'm pretty sure there are no other hidden deductions,  just the same ones the rest of us get SS, fwt, and l&i. The reason I know this is I write the checks! Our state's min. wage is 9.47, so that is the bottom floor. If workers don't make at least that doing piece work, I must pay them per hour.....and I can tell you this, they won't work for min. wage! Any per hour work they do, they want at least 12 bucks, If you pay them less, it will cost you! ......fruit will be bruised, trees damaged  and or your stuff will be missing!.....When there is a labor shortage, they know they can name their price.    

As for the guys being "locked into camp", I would guess they are our government's answer. Called H2A workers,  those people sign a labor contract that says they will work at least 40 hours but can work up to 60 if they want! The requirement is that the employers must take them shopping every 7 days or to any medical appointment. With H2A, the employer must guarantee x amount of work. If that should change, the employer may be liable for any shortage of hours. The employer must also provide transport to and from Mexico. The government sets the rate that certain duty's will pay, so when harvesting, that's typically the highest wage they will receive while under contract.     

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Immigration hardliner says Trump team preparing plans for wall, mulling Muslim registry

Reuters  /  November 15, 2016

An architect of anti-immigration efforts who says he is advising President-elect Donald Trump said the new administration could push ahead rapidly on construction of a U.S.-Mexico border wall without seeking immediate congressional approval.

Kansas Secretary of State Kris Kobach, who helped write tough immigration laws in Arizona and elsewhere, said in an interview that Trump's policy advisers had also discussed drafting a proposal for his consideration to reinstate a registry for immigrants from Muslim countries.

Kobach, reportedly a key member of Trump's transition team, said he had participated in regular conference calls with about a dozen Trump immigration advisers for the past two to three months.

Trump made building a wall on the U.S.-Mexico border a central issue of his campaign and supports “extreme vetting” of Muslims entering the United States as a national security measure.

Kobach told Reuters last Friday that the immigration group had discussed drafting executive orders for the president-elect's review "so that Trump and the Department of Homeland Security hit the ground running."

To implement Trump's call for "extreme vetting" of some Muslim immigrants, Kobach said the immigration policy group could recommend the reinstatement of a national registry of immigrants and visitors who enter the United States on visas from countries where extremist organizations are active.

Kobach helped design the program, known as the National Security Entry-Exit Registration System (NSEERS), while serving in Republican President George W. Bush's Department of Justice after the Sept. 11, 2001, attacks on the United States by al Qaeda militants.

Under NSEERS, people from countries deemed "higher risk" were required to undergo interrogations and fingerprinting on entering the United States. Some non-citizen male U.S. residents over the age of 16 from countries with active militant threats were required to register in person at government offices and periodically check in.

NSEERS was abandoned in 2011 after it was deemed redundant by the Department of Homeland Security and criticized by civil rights groups for unfairly targeting immigrants from Muslim- majority nations.

Kobach said the immigration advisers were also looking at how the Homeland Security Department could move rapidly on border wall construction without approval from Congress by reappropriating existing funds in the current budget. He acknowledged "that future fiscal years will require additional appropriations."

HELPED DRAFT TOUGH ARIZONA LAW

Kobach has worked with allies across the United States on drafting laws and pursuing legal actions to crack down on illegal immigration.

In 2010, he helped draft an Arizona law that required state and local officials to check the immigration status of individuals stopped by police. Parts of the law, which was fiercely opposed by Hispanic and civil rights groups, were struck down by the U.S. Supreme Court in 2011.

Kobach was also the architect of a 2013 Kansas law requiring voters to provide proof-of-citizenship documents, such as birth certificates or U.S. passports, when registering for the first time. A U.S. appeals court blocked that law after challenges from civil rights groups.

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LAPD chief says department will refuse to help Donald Trump’s deportation efforts

The Washington Post  /  November 15, 2016

Donald Trump has pledged to begin deporting millions of undocumented immigrants as soon as he takes office next year.

For now, Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck has no plans to help him do it.

“We’re going to maintain the same posture we always have,” says Beck. “We don’t make detentions or arrests based solely on status, whether that’s immigration status or any other status.”

“If the federal government takes a more aggressive role on deportation, then they’ll have to do that on their own,” he continued. [We are not team players. We’re not going to help the federal government rid our nation of illegal immigrants, people inherently criminals by their action]

Beck called any effort to arrest and deport people a “monumental task” and estimated that there are 500,000 undocumented residents in the city of Los Angeles alone.

“This is a population we police by creating partnerships, not by targeting them because of their immigration status,” he added.

If there was one location in the United States in which Trump could make the largest dent in the country’s undocumented population, it would be sprawling Los Angeles County, where citizens and noncitizens have lived side-by-side for decades.

Almost a quarter of the nation’s 11 million undocumented immigrants live in California, according to the Public Policy Institute of California. With an undocumented population of nearly 815,000, according to PPIC, Los Angeles County has more undocumented residents than any county in the state.

Though estimates vary, experts calculate that more than 1.6 million illegal immigrants live in Texas, making it second only to California in the size of its undocumented population.

The LAPD has spent decades avoiding a significant role in the enforcement of federal immigration policies, even as the city’s undocumented immigrant population swelled.

Following a special order by then-chief Daryl Gates in 1979 that stopped officers from inquiring about someone’s immigration status, the Los Angeles Times reported, the LAPD has for decades managed to remain outside the contentious immigration debate.

Beck says working with the Department of Homeland Security on deportation is not the department’s job.

“I don’t intend on doing anything different,” he said. “We are not going to engage in law enforcement activities solely based on somebody’s immigration status. We are not going to work in conjunction with Homeland Security on deportation efforts. That is not our job, nor will I make it our job.”

Unveiled in 1979, “Special Order No. 40” directed LAPD officers to “not initiate police action” in an effort to ascertain someone’s legal status. Officers were instructed to notify the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service after arresting someone “for multiple misdemeanor offenses, a high grade misdemeanor or a felony offense” or someone who “has been previously arrested for a similar offense.”

“The Los Angeles community has become significantly more diverse during the past several years with substantial numbers of people from different ethnic and sociological backgrounds migrating to this City,” the order states. “Many aliens, whether from Latin American, African, Asian or European countries, are legal residents. Others are undocumented and are residing in the City without legal sanction.”

Since Beck became police chief in November 2009, the Times reported, the department has gone even further to remove itself from playing a role in deportations. Officers no longer hand people “arrested for low-level crimes to federal agents for deportation and [have] moved away from honoring federal requests to detain inmates who might be deportable past their jail terms.”

Beck says his command staff has met with community leaders and has delivered a consistent message when asked about immigration enforcement:

“This is the same LAPD you had Monday, a week ago,” he said. “We have not changed because of the election on Tuesday. We have the same principles. We have the same values,” he said. “This is not going to change the way that the Los Angeles Police Department enforces the law.”

Los Angeles Mayor Eric Garcetti has reiterated that police would continue to enforce Special Order 40.

“Our law enforcement officers and LAPD don’t go around asking people for their papers, nor should they,” he said. “That’s not the role of local law enforcement.”

Though Trump has threatened to withhold federal tax dollars, mayors of U.S. cities across the country have promised to protect their [illegal immigrant] residents from deportation.

New York Mayor Bill de Blasio even left open the possibility of deleting a database with the names of hundreds of thousands of undocumented immigrants living in New York. He was joined in opposition by Chicago’s Rahm Emanuel and Seattle’s Ed Murray, both of whom have pledged to resist efforts to deport their residents.

“Seattle has always been a welcoming city [to illegal immigrants],” Murray said Monday, according to ABC News. “The last thing I want is for us to start turning on our neighbors.”

 

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14 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

Billy T, there's no way to verify that $170/day rate, and it sounds like propaganda from Big Ag. Truth is, in this century big growers in Florida have been convicted of enslaving farm workers. To give you an idea of what these Big Ag factory farms are doing, we have a couple near 10,000 cow dairies near me that almost exclusively employ noncitizen immigrants under one of the visa programs. The "farm" is basically a company town, with a million square foot "barn" and manure lagoons right next to a cheaply built apartment building that houses the workers. The workers are notable in the census data for the townships these factory farms are located in, with 30-40 farm workers they kinda stick out in a township with a population of only a couple hundred. Those census stats show a similar number of renters as there are workers at the "farms", and they're paying almost $1000 a month in rent- That's double the market rate for rent in nearby towns. These workers are brought here under a program that requires that they be skilled workers with 4 year college degrees, yet the census tells us that there are far fewer people with college degrees in the township than there are workers at the "farms"... Clearly there is fraud afoot here. The income data from the census shows a much smaller number of $170 a day workers than the "farms" employ.

So sounds like that $170 a day might be a gross figure for a 16 hour day, and before the labor contractor's cut and other deductions are made.

Would you like for me to post their pay stubs?.......Granted solid Ag. work doesn't pay this wage, but high dollar time sensitive crops pay workers well, as no insurance policy will pay for crop loss due to a labor shortage! So with the investment we have into producing the crop, we must harvest it or lose our ass! 

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18 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

 

I heard a bunch of those sanctuary city's mayors defiantly telling trump on the news last night that they will not deport, help deport and can do as they please. I hope they end up in prison. 

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So you're advocating imprisoning city officials who are violating no law? That'll accomplish even less than rounding up undocumented immigrants!

As a rule, Rounding up and jailing undocumented immigrants for ICE is a losing proposition- You spend thousands of dollars of police time hunting them down and making arrests, then they tie up your jail for days and weeks while you wait for ICE to pick them up. Meanwhile, your jail is full and you have to turn loose dangerous criminals due to lack of space. As a city council member, it makes no financial sense for us to hunt down undocumented immigrants- They increase our census count and bring in more state aid and rent or buy housing that would otherwise be abandoned. If we call our county sheriff to come pick them up, he'll probably just process and release them due to lack of jail space, then he'll start billing us for every similar call. Immigrants, legal or otherwise, are saving our small towns out here... As long as they don't make trouble, they're welcome to stay. 

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HG, first off you have no facts to back up your assertions. As a council member, there is no legal requirement that I zero tolerance enforce every law on the books... Heck, if we kick every "illegal" immigrant out of town, we'll have to make folks scrap their old tractors and trucks too! Never mind the practical aspects of enforcement- It's easy to keep track of tractors and old cars and trucks and whether or not they're operable, but we have no way to determine the legality of anyone's residence in this town. If we went door to door and demanded that every resident produce proof of citizenship or be arrested, we'd arrest half the town, and that half would be mostly old folks who were born right in this county but in many cases don't even have drivers licenses! That assumes they'd come to the door, and if the don't no judge would sign warrants to check everyone for residency status. And all this to enforce a federal law of which violation is a mere misdemeanor? Sorry, we've got streets to maintain, an aging water system to rebuild, etc....

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GH 204, thank you for your clarification on the wage rate! I was ready to rent a van, fill it with workers and head to Washington as a labor contractor! We all tend to only see one facet of anothers life and judge them by that! There has been for decades in Florida a situation that heavily favors businesses over workers in every pursuit including agriculture. The enslavement I referred to was actual locked gate captivity, with the labor contractors raping the women and taking an unfair percentage of the workers already low wages! The minimum wage in Florida is around 8.00. I just naturally assumed the crops you were harvesting were high dollar like the cherries you mentioned,down here it is blueberries and strawberries. The citrus crop is down to 20 percent of previous years due to "citrus greening" a disease that kills orange trees! The researchers at UF are feverishly working to find a cure if they don't the majority of our orange juice will come from Chile and central America! A lot of it already is! I am familiar with the H2A program. The computer industry is replacing American workers with people from India under that program, and forcing the displaced workers to train them or they won't get their severance package! How the hell can you afford to transport workers to and from Mexico from Washington! It is obvious there is no one answer to the problems we face! It is also obvious we cannot continue continue to keep feeding,housing, and educating non citizens forever,would they do the same for us if we illegally crossed into Mexico?!

 

 

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13 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

The Washington Post  /  November 15, 2016

Donald Trump has pledged to begin deporting millions of undocumented immigrants as soon as he takes office next year.

For now, Los Angeles Police Chief Charlie Beck has no plans to help him do it.

“We’re going to maintain the same posture we always have,” says Beck. “We don’t make detentions or arrests based solely on status, whether that’s immigration status or any other status.”

I am in favor of deporting all West Coast Democrats.

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7 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

HG, first off you have no facts to back up your assertions. As a council member, there is no legal requirement that I zero tolerance enforce every law on the books... Heck, if we kick every "illegal" immigrant out of town, we'll have to make folks scrap their old tractors and trucks too! Never mind the practical aspects of enforcement- It's easy to keep track of tractors and old cars and trucks and whether or not they're operable, but we have no way to determine the legality of anyone's residence in this town. If we went door to door and demanded that every resident produce proof of citizenship or be arrested, we'd arrest half the town, and that half would be mostly old folks who were born right in this county but in many cases don't even have drivers licenses! That assumes they'd come to the door, and if the don't no judge would sign warrants to check everyone for residency status. And all this to enforce a federal law of which violation is a mere misdemeanor? Sorry, we've got streets to maintain, an aging water system to rebuild, etc....

Wow city council member. Didn't know that makes you an expert on the situation state by state. Now an elected official says they will harbor illegals is ILLEGAL. That means the mayor tell the police chief to NOT turn over any illegal they come across in routine traffick stops or any other time law enforcement comes in contact with someone during their job and learns they are illegal. That IS breaking the law. They (city officials) also are not helping the Feds track down dangerous criminals in their cities where their (city officials) duty and loyalty lies with their citizens and no border jumpers are not citizens they are criminals simply based in how they got here. 

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Y'll forgot that immigration is governed by federal law, which means the federal government has responsibility for enforcing it. City, county, and state attorneys do not prosecute federal cases, the U.S. Attorneys do. Same with enforcement, ICE is the federal law enforcement unit that handles immigration. As for my fellow council members and mayor ordering that our police enforce immigration laws, like most small towns we have no police force and delegate that responsibility to our county sheriff. He has more important things to do that chase down undocumented immigrants for ICE. 

So you might want to study up a bit on the separation of power between the federal and lower levels of government before you suggest we locals usurp the fed's responsibility.

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Rudy Giuliani fought federal government to defend illegal immigrants as NYC mayor

CNN  /  November 16, 2016

Rudy Giuliani has a long record of defending and advocating for illegal immigrants as mayor of New York City.

His past positions are at odds with Trump's plan to end so-called sanctuary cities and deport millions of undocumented immigrants.

Giuliani is under consideration to join Trump's administration as secretary of state or attorney general. Giuliani prefers secretary of state. Either role would give Giuliani a hand in federal immigration policy.

As New York City mayor, Giuliani praised the contribution illegal immigrants made to the city and went to court to protect them from being reported to the federal government.

"Some of the hardest-working and most productive people in this city are undocumented [illegal] aliens," Giuliani said at a 1994 press conference. "If you come here and you work hard and you happen to be in an undocumented [illegal] status, you're one of the people who we want in this city. You're somebody that we want to protect, and we want you to get out from under what is often a life of being like a fugitive, which is really unfair."

Appearing on WABC in 2001, Giuliani said, "The city of New York, quite frankly, is quite tolerant of undocumented [illegal] immigration and this shouldn't surprise you because I've been the mayor for a long time and outspoken on this issue, even nationally, I happen to agree with that."

"I think New York City should not deal with undocumented [illegal] immigrants in a harsh way. I think they make a big contribution to the life of the city and were much better off being sensible and practical about it," he continued. "And the reality is that restaurants are going to have a certain number of people who are undocumented [illegal], you know people that come here to make a living trying to help themselves and their families."

In 1996, Giuliani sued the federal government over a provision in a welfare law that said any city or state employees could not be prevented from reporting someone's immigration status to the federal Immigration and Naturalization Service. Giuliani argued at the time that the provision was a direct attack on New York City's Executive Order 124, which prohibited city employees from reporting the immigration status of an illegal immigrant unless they were suspected of a crime. The court ruled against Giuliani.

"For those who may not know, 'Executive Order 124' is New York City's policy regarding undocumented [illegal] immigrants," said Giuliani in an October 1996 statement. "This order was issued seven years ago by Mayor Ed Koch and then later reissued by Mayor Dinkins and then by me. 'Executive Order 124' protects undocumented [illegal] immigrants in New York City from being reported to the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service while they are using City services that are crucial for their health and safety, and critical for the health and safety of the entire city. I know 'Executive Order 124' offends some people. They ask, 'Why should we pay to provide services for illegal immigrants?' The answer is it's not only to protect them, but to protect the rest of society, as well."

In a speech at Harvard around the same time in 1996, Giuliani forcefully argued for the city's right to "protect the health and well being of our city" by shielding illegal immigrants from the federal government.

"The Tenth Amendment provides that 'The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people,'" said the mayor in a speech at Harvard shortly before filing suit. "One right not granted to the federal government is the right of state and local governments to provide for the health and safety of their local communities. This right is generally described as 'the police power.' When Ed Koch signed 'Executive Order 124' it was a classic example of New York City's police power being used to protect the health and well being of our city."

"Most likely, the federal government will reply that controlling immigration is one of their core functions. But this is a disingenuous argument [???]," he continued. "The federal government will be forced to argue that it has to treat undocumented [illegal] immigrants unfairly in order to discourage others from coming here [???]. Attempting to control immigration by creating a disincentive for a woman to report to the police that she has been beaten up by her husband is a very weak argument. And it's a horrible position for the federal government to take."

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