Trump - Changes at the EPA

[kscarbel2]

Fiat Chrysler, GM Soar as Trump May Weaken Fuel-Economy Rule

Bloomberg  /  November 11, 2016

Fiat Chrysler Automobiles (FCA) gained the most in two years and General Motors the most in a year after President-elect Donald Trump selected a prominent critic of global warming to lead his Environmental Protection Agency (EPA) transition team. Tesla Motors, which is betting big on alternative energy, declined.

The EPA is scheduled next year to evaluate President Barack Obama’s ambitious fuel-economy regulations that were originally intended to double the efficiency of the nation’s light-vehicle fleet to 54.5 miles per gallon of gasoline by 2025. Myron Ebell, a director at the Washington-based Competitive Enterprise Institute and climate-change skeptic, is leading the agency’s transition to the Trump administration.

“We believe it is unlikely that new fuel-economy rules will be passed or that existing ones will be strengthened,” says Goldman Sachs analyst Adam Jonas. “Enforcement and preservation of current CAFE standards is unclear.” That could be positive for automakers looking to sell more profitable pickups and sport utility vehicles and negative for makers of hybrids or pure-electric vehicles.

Fiat Chrysler, which sells the highest proportion of light trucks among the biggest automakers, surged 9.7 percent, the most since Oct. 29, 2014, to close at $7.59. GM climbed 5.7 percent, the most since Oct. 21, 2015, to $32.73. Ford finished at $11.94, a 3.1 percent gain, the biggest since April 28.

‘Demote’ the EPA

Trump will “follow the national Republican Party platform on the EPA, which will actually demote it as an agency and have it report to a joint bipartisan committee and essentially take away much of its independence,” says automotive economist Sean McAlinden. “The CAFE rules would be canceled,” he added, referring to the corporate average fuel economy standards.

Even if Trump doesn’t scrap it entirely, his administration may “lessen the stringency” of the four-decade old program, says Kelley Blue Book analyst Jack Nerad.

“I would think auto companies would prefer that,” he said. “They would look at that as somebody who would not put another roadblock between them and the consumer.”

Weaker fuel-economy rules may accelerate the shift from cars to pickups, SUVs and vans as well as reduce demand for hybrids or pure-electric vehicles.

American depositary receipts of Toyota Motor Corp., the maker of the Prius hybrid line and top seller of cars in the U.S., fell 0.8 percent to close at $110.86, and those of Nissan Motor Co., which invested heavily in its Leaf electric car and sells the fewest trucks among the top six automakers, dropped 4.9 percent to $18.65. Tesla, the Palo Alto, California-based company that produces only electric vehicles and is buying solar-panel installer SolarCity Corp., declined 2.5 percent for a second straight day to close at $185.35.

Also Thursday, the Alliance of Automobile Manufacturers sent an eight-page letter to the Trump transition team with a series of recommendations, including aligning programs run by the EPA and the National Highway Traffic Safety Administration. Inconsistent rules threaten to saddle the industry with “potentially billions of dollars in fines,” said the trade group, which represents most of the world’s biggest automakers including GM, Ford, Toyota and Volkswagen AG.

The alliance asked for a presidential panel to review all auto regulations, including fuel-economy rules, as consumers continue to reject efficient cars and electrified vehicles in favor of pickups and SUVs.

“The combination of low gas prices and the existing fuel efficiency gains from the early years of the program is undercutting consumer willingness to buy the vehicles with more expensive alternative powertrains,” the group said.

[41chevy]

It would be nice to see the EPA's "answer to no one" ability to pass regulations without the normal process for enacting regulations changed or scaled back.   Paul

[carlotpilot]

imho   epa should be scrapped entirely

[kscarbel2]

19 minutes ago, carlotpilot said:

imho   epa should be scrapped entirely

In order to have a sustainable society, we must keep our environment in check.

For example, there are many American cities where, in some areas, cancer rates run high due to industrial waste. Recall Love Canal.

Clean air is rational, but attaining that desired outcome must be done rationally.

[carlotpilot]

8 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

In order to have a sustainable society, we must keep our environment in check.

For example, there are many American cities where, in some areas, cancer rates run high due to industrial waste. Recall Love Canal.

Clean air is rational, but attaining that desired outcome must be done rationally.

I do not disagree with clean air & water, but as it is now and getting worse, the EPA will never take a rational approach to anything.

[41chevy]

25 minutes ago, carlotpilot said:

I do not disagree with clean air & water, but as it is now and getting worse, the EPA will never take a rational approach to anything.

Because the head of the EPA is a  political "friends" appointment and not based on practical knowledge and experience in the main areas you want to regulate. Combine that with near unlimited and unquestionable power,this is what you get. An out of control unicorn, pie in the sky agency with regulations based personal opinions and views.

[carlotpilot]

amen     case in california going on now  farmers raise diary cows     farmers must feed said cows  farmers must also deal with waste said cows create   they are doing so according to epa rules apparently that is not good enough for said epa and carb both are now trying to fine said farmers because said cows tended to according to regs.  FART

[41chevy]

On 11/10/2016 at 10:38 PM, carlotpilot said:

amen     case in california going on now  farmers raise diary cows     farmers must feed said cows  farmers must also deal with waste said cows create   they are doing so according to epa rules apparently that is not good enough for said epa and carb both are now trying to fine said farmers because said cows tended to according to regs.  FART

Biggest factor in selling our piddly farm on Long Island was the N.Y. equivalent of EPA regulating water usage, amount of nitrates (but not joe suburbans mac mansion) dust  when plowing or harvesting and finally water run off from rain.

Edited November 14, 2016 by 41chevy

[carlotpilot]

Paul, I made that trip to Long Island Monday. What the hell is wrong with those people up there? I've never seen so many no trucks and no parking signs plastered everywhere. How the hell do they expect to get anything in or out?      I'm aware of all the low bridges.

[41chevy]

11 hours ago, carlotpilot said:

Paul, I made that trip to Long Island Monday. What the hell is wrong with those people up there? I've never seen so many no trucks and no parking signs plastered everywhere. How the hell do they expect to get anything in or out?      I'm aware of all the low bridges.

That is one of the many reasons we left. the entire place is not blue collar friendly.  They seem to hate trucks, farms, construction companies, gas stations, lumber yards and any animal that's not "cute".  If it's not a mall, spa, nail salon, fast food joint or a Starbucks it's not wanted. F' them.

[HeavyGunner]

2 hours ago, 41chevy said:

That is one of the many reasons we left. the entire place is not blue collar friendly.  They seem to hate trucks, farms, construction companies, gas stations, lumber yards and any animal that's not "cute".  If it's not a mall, spa, nail salon, fast food joint or a Starbucks it's not wanted. F' them.

They hate all those things until they run out of something or encounter a hardship. Both coasts have big cities with city dwellers who have absolutely no common sense about any blue collar job that they need to survive like trucking, coal for their power, oil for their heat and vehicles etc.  It's sad that those little pockets (geographically) of people who are so removed from how we get food, power, asphalt etc etc have the controlling vote of the rest of the nation. They will have to change their tune once they regulate themselves into a food, power, oil shortage and they go without for awhile. 

[BillyT]

I read many years ago that Lancaster Ct. Pa and several other places that have a large Amish population have polluted wells and streams because they fertilize their crops with animal manure! They also don't drive cars, or use tractors so I wonder if it evens itself out!

[BillyT]

My pickup is 24 yrs old and totally "emissions delete" except for the pc v valve (my doing) The average citizen buys a new car every 6 yrs so how much pollution is created when a new car is built? I paid 1200.$ for the truck in near new condition and will keep it til I die (It will definitely outlast me) so how much would I have spent to get 10 more mpg and meet emissions guidelines? On the minus side it is cramped and steers as hard as an R model without power steering! So who's ahead? I don't know!😁

[41chevy]

2 hours ago, BillyT said:

My pickup is 24 yrs old and totally "emissions delete" except for the pc v valve (my doing) The average citizen buys a new car every 6 yrs so how much pollution is created when a new car is built? I paid 1200.$ for the truck in near new condition and will keep it til I die (It will definitely outlast me) so how much would I have spent to get 10 more mpg and meet emissions guidelines? On the minus side it is cramped and steers as hard as an R model without power steering! So who's ahead? I don't know!😁

All that matters is you like it!

My '55 chevy's been a race car since 1962 running D/ Gas and later  C/MP. Now powered ay a full race 320 Jimmy, Super T-10, 5:13  Detroit Locker . It's a brutal car that I now use on the street. Make me smile, rest of the people? who cares.

[Vladislav]

3 hours ago, BillyT said:

My pickup is 24 yrs old and totally "emissions delete" except for the pc v valve (my doing) The average citizen buys a new car every 6 yrs so how much pollution is created when a new car is built? I paid 1200.$ for the truck in near new condition and will keep it til I die (It will definitely outlast me) so how much would I have spent to get 10 more mpg and meet emissions guidelines? On the minus side it is cramped and steers as hard as an R model without power steering! So who's ahead? I don't know!😁

It's always seemed to me (and I always said that) that the most of those environmental requirements were created to force people to buy newer vehicles (and other stuff such as TV's or washing machines etc). And not to really make the environment cleaner. If you try to count how much garbage is produced by wasting used things (for real quite unused in many cases) and at the same time how much of emissions and heat is generated making new (more "green") things, you would get to opinion on lowering the number of different things to consume by people. And not to advise and forse people to buy more and more newer stuff.

Sure newer things are designed to be cleaner. And that's good. On the other hand there are methods (as old as our world) to make things better with small worth. For example, the most expensive part of a car is its body. And it doesn't make pollutions. So you may make a body to be good for a long. And just modernize engines and swap them. 

But what we can see instead of, for a modern car or truck, if we get some small part to break down, and go to a dealer, they in many cases say that we must buy a whole unit for a fix. My question to you (to anybody): does it seem much of the reason to make our current rig cleaner? Or forse us to buy a newer and cleaner rig? Or just to ripp our wallet more efficiantly? With no care for the environment.

Edited November 11, 2016 by Vladislav

[TeamsterGrrrl]

From an environmental perspective, replacing stuff before it's worn out is an environmental disaster all by itself. There's a method of measuring the whole life energy and greenhouse gas cost called the GREET model, developed by Argonne National Lab. It shows that prematurely scrapping even the worst SUV and replacing it with a hybrid or electric car actually uses more energy and creates more greenhouse gases than running the SUV into the ground. Calculations using the GREET model also show that electric cars are no better for the environment unless their batteries are recharged by electricity from renewable sources. The GREET model also shows that diesels produce less greenhouse gases than gas engined hybrids, especially if they're running on renewable fuels.

BTW, government's encouragement of overconsumption and planned obsolesce began at the end of World War Two. With millions of soldiers being discharged and coming home unemployed, the government was worried that the great depression would start up all over again... So they encouraged spending with easy credit to boost the economy.

[Vladislav]

14 hours ago, TeamsterGrrrl said:

With millions of soldiers being discharged and coming home unemployed, the government was worried that the great depression would start up all over again... So they encouraged spending with easy credit to boost the economy.

This seems to me as a possible matter of what goes on in the economics.

Although I haven't even noted any talks on it in media's. 

So seems like eclological issues are used just as a mask. What is really bad having those environmental problems of so serious grade.

[TeamsterGrrrl]

Yup, governments everywhere often try to "motivate" excess consumption. Here in the U.S. the government has been heavily subsidizing electric cars for years, even though from an environmental viewpoint they don't accomplish much because they run on power produced by fossil fuel powered plants. And when the batteries get useless after less than 10 years, it costs more to replace the batteries than the car is worth so it get's junked at a point where a conventional car has half it's life left. Same with solar power- I was at a seminar a couple weeks ago where a solar power developer was showing us how we could buy one of his solar arrays and have the government pay for 60% of it, and the power company pay for most of the rest. But their is, as always, no "free lunch"- The folks like us who can't afford new cars every few years and $20,000 and up solar arrays are subsidizing the well off folks who can.

[BillyT]

41, I have always loved the "big sixes" 270 and 292 jimmys 300 Ford's, with all that torque,and that "glass breaking" exhaust note I always wanted to build a street rod with a Buick straight 8,so smooth and sound so good with straight exhaust!. Teamster Grrrl it is interesting that with today's alloys and lubricants the average Japanese  style front wheel drive car is good for 300000mi without a major repair with proper maintenance,but I swear that they engineer in the the compute r and electrical problems that cause you to go back to the dealer and get your eyes screwed out! It also drives the purchase of corporate America's no 1 moneymaker the extended warranty! But the average citizen is not blameless in this scenario as they convince themselves they need all that unnecessarily bullshit like Bluetooth connectivity and my absolute favorite,federally mandated "incompetence mitigation devices" like lane maintenance,parking assistance,automatic braking etc ad nauseam.How are any of us alive without these devices!😁 Parking assistance on a 500hp Camaro! It would be laughable if it weren't so tragic!

[BillyT]

Just saw an article on the death of the "Last human cannonball" in the Tampa Bay Times.Hugo Zacchini 88 died October 30 in Tampa.Always sad when these " larger than life" people die! He was the last of his family,many of whom were shot from cannons in their circus and carnival careers,both male and female! Mr Zacchini had two engineering degrees from the UF.The cannon was mounted on a beautiful late thirties Diamond T chassis! I suspect he had a lot to do with the construction of the cannon as many of the circus performers built their own equipment and props.Mr Wallenda who walked a tightrope across the grand canyon used only family members to install the cable across the canyon! Makes sense, no room for mistakes there!! There are a fascinating array of photos and videos on this subject on Google including an older cannon and truck some of you may identify,could be a White.

[BillyT]

I'm going to invent a catalytic converter for cows! Ever notice how many products are carcinogenic in California? I guess the answer is don't use them in California! The Weber carburetor on my truck is illegal in California,that's how I know it's a good product!

[Marcel67]

In all fairness, we should have gotten a compensation on buying cleaner trucks. In Holland, there was a subsidy program if you bought a cleaner truck and the additional cost was offset by a rebate!