67RModel

The one I have for sale is a 1972. Its technically still an ENDT675 2 valve maxidyne engine. The E6 nomenclature came around in the very early 1980s. Not sure how much difference there would be between the two versions...probably not much for the external pieces you need. At any rate I'm not ready to part this one out anyway. Still trying to get it gone as a complete unit.

Series 60 was the engine that saved Detroit Diesel along with Roger Penske's money and John Deere Corporation. Not too many people know but in the in the mid 1980s John Deere and Detroit Diesel formed a joint venture to co-develop engines for on highway applications and off road machinery. Detroit's 2 cycle was all but dead and Deere was in a bad financial position from horrible farm economies of the late 70s and early 80s. Deere engineers had the knowledge to design and build reliable 4 stroke diesels. The joint venture was named Detroit Deere Corporation (DEDEC). Roger Penske swooped in at the last minute and bought Detroit Diesel and poured mountains of money into the prototype engine called the Tech 80, which would become the Series 60. John Deere's 12.5 liter Powertech engines have often been called Series 60 clones since they were introduced a few years after the 60 Series debuted. Attached are two pictures of corporate literature of the merger company that really never came to fruition. How much engineering and information exchange that took place between Detroit and Deere leading up to Penske buying Detroit and nixing the corporate merger deal is unknown. However, based on how similar the Series 60 and Deere 12.5 liter Powertechs are......a lot?

Engineering knowledge from John Deere is what saved Detroit Diesel along with Roger Penske's money. I just made a post about this a few days ago in another unrelated thread. Ill copy and paste it here.

What year engine and engine size are we talking here. Get the information from the tags and stickers on the sides of valve cover. Also the make and year of the truck could help if you know for certain the engine is original to the truck. It literally says there is some type of EGR fault on your scanner so there is a good chance its not a 12.7? The information seems contradictory but I'm no DD guru.

I am way off topic on this thread but if we are reminiscing about the Series 60......

Series 60 was the engine that saved Detroit Diesel along with Roger Penske's money and John Deere Corporation. Not too many people know but in the in the mid 1980s John Deere and Detroit Diesel formed a joint venture to co-develop engines for on highway applications and off road machinery. Detroit's 2 cycle was all but dead and Deere was in a bad financial position from horrible farm economies of the late 70s and early 80s. Deere engineers had the knowledge to design and build reliable 4 stroke diesels. The joint venture was named Detroit Deere Corporation (DEDEC). Roger Penske swooped in at the last minute and bought Detroit Diesel and poured mountains of money into the prototype engine called the Tech 80, which would become the Series 60. John Deere's 12.5 liter Powertech engines have often been called Series 60 clones since they were introduced a few years after the 60 Series debuted. Attached are two pictures of corporate literature of the merger company that really never came to fruition. How much engineering and information exchange that took place between Detroit and Deere leading up to Penske buying Detroit and nixing the corporate merger deal is unknown. However, based on how similar the Series 60 and Deere 12.5 liter Powertechs are......a lot?

Your joking right?

See the attached pictures they are 8.5” to the inside edge of the profile where the wedge anchor seats. 10” overall width.

My head is spinning from all the issues and concerns that are flashing through my head. Yes the E6 will fit in the space and probably mount up without too much trouble. After that it will be an enormous struggle getting all the odds and ends and details sorted out. If the truck had an electronic E7 then the it was some version of Vmac. All the gauges, indicator lights and alarms are wired through and integrated into the Vmac module. I have studied the wiring schematics for the two versions. Even fully mechanical E7 and Vmac 1 are very different electronically. Not only will you have issues under the hood getting things to work. The cab integration will be a nightmare too. Plus you say you are new to working on big trucks. No disrespect but I would renege on this one while its still early.

I have always wanted to try rhubarb pie but nobody I know makes it and you definitely can’t get it at any stores or bakery’s…at least none I know of. And yes I have always wanted to try plum pudding and also fig pudding like they say in the one Christmas song. Like where do you even get fig pudding?

The CL uses the cab from the CH. Very different than an R model cab. The R model cab is much smaller inside and a very different dash and gauge layout. The CL713 has a much beefier frame and chassis. The frame rails are much deeper than on a 600 series R model chassis. There is probably other things but those are probably the two biggest….cab and chassis.

Yea I agree.

I hate to resurrect this oldish thread again. I spent entirely too much time this week on BMT and here its midnight on Saturday and I'm still on it lol. Anyway, I spent a lot of time reading old threads and looking back through the photo albums. What I realized is this place used to be super rowdy and aggressive. I mean there are a lot of threads that are down right nasty and hateful. This was in the 2017 - 2019 timeframe. I have never experienced anything like those threads in my time here. I came in about when all that seemed to be ending in early 2020. I was thinking maybe that hostility drove a lot of guys away. Or if they were not directly involved in the conversations just said screw it and decided to log on anymore and read a bunch of negativity.

He last logged on December 30, 2022...so like a week ago.

OK I got this figured out now thanks to the video @Onyx610 posted and actually having time to sit down and watch it. The video along with some other sources got me all straightened out. Mechanically governed E7s use the LDA system and not the puff limiter system. For those that don't know and want to know here goes: In a cold start scenario the puff limiter system (think E6 and possibly older) is full rack by default. Rack travel becomes limited once you release the spring brakes and air is sent to the injector pump. Once boost pressure is sufficient for full rack the boost pressure overcomes the air pressure supplied by the parking brake valve via the reversing valve that is tapped directly into the intake manifold. Boost pressure and chassis air pressure are always hydraulically "battling" each other in the reversing valve for control of the air cylinder in the injection pump. In a cold start scenario the LDA system is limited rack by default. There is no reversing valve at the intake like the puff limiter system. The LDA system just has a line tapped into the intake and constantly adjusts rack travel based on boost pressure alone. No compressed air is involved. In a cold start scenario limited rack is not desirable so a workaround is needed. That is the purpose of the valve in the first picture a few posts back. It is a Bendix SV-1 Syncro Valve. When you flip the dash switch to "on" for the CAC bypass, tank air (assuming it hasn't all leaked out) is sent to the SV-1 valve as well as to the two cylinders in the bypass duct plumbing. The cylinders simultaneously close the CAC outlet and open the bypass duct allowing warm compressed air to directly enter the intake manifold. The air sent to the SV-1 valve is regulated down to whatever maximum boost pressure is and passed down and connected to the the tee fitting in the intake manifold where the LDA is tapped into. Thus, the LDA is "fooled" into thinking boost is max and full rack is available before you start cranking the starter. Once the truck warms up a little the CAC bypass can be switched off, the air cylinders cycle back to their normal positions, boost air begins passing through the CAC normally, the air going to the SV-1 valve is exhausted, and the LDA goes back to sensing whatever the actual manifold pressure is. Of course it doesn't stop there. Both systems utilize a torque limiting valve if the truck has a Mack transmission. Once running, if the transmission is put into reverse and/or the low forward gear(s) the torque limiting valve is activated. It is piped from its location on the transmission up to the reversing valve (puff limiter) or to the tee where the LDA is tapped into the manifold. Once its activated it dumps the boost pressure to atmosphere that would normally build up in the system and allow full rack travel. By doing this rack travel is limited in both systems to protect the drivetrain in the low and reverse gears. Once the shift rails are moved to select a higher gear the torque limiting valve closes and allows boost pressure to build up and allow for full rack travel in the injection pump. Below is a picture taken out of my E7 book explaining that all fully mechanical E7s made after 1991 have the CAC bypass setup installed by default. I assume the VMAC trucks can electrically advance the timing during cold startup making this system not necessary for them. I will say that I have consistently been able to start my truck down into the low 30s high 20s temperature range without using this system and it fires up very quickly.

Also, I think it technically illegal by National Electric Code to use a standby generator without a transfer switch. Automatic or manual.

I always wondered about that. Would the generator even run with the main open? In theory wouldn't it just stall the generator or not even start to begin with? I mean isn't that the same as trying to power the whole town that has lost power? Or do the transformers no allow the generator power to reach the main wires? I'm pretty weak at understanding electrical and big power....

That is my understanding of it. Well at least how the older style puff limiters worked on the E6s. You got full rack on start up (to aid with cold starting). As soon as you released your spring brakes air was sent to the puff limiter until manifold pressure (boost) was sufficient for full rack. Also, If you had a Mack transmission with lolo gears you wouldn't get full rack until the transmission was in forward high range. I'm not sure about this LDA system and why that valve is mounted up off the manifold. The older style puff limiter valve was tapped directly into the manifold.

Joey, Yes. In the second picture the airline painted in gray that goes out the left side of the picture from the manifold goes to the injection pump to limit rack travel before manifold pressure gets high enough to burn all the fuel from fully open rack. The line coming in the bottom of the second picture to the manifold I think comes from the transmission to keep the rack from opening fully until you switch into transmission high range (I have not confirmed this yet though). I'm just wondering now if I should remove that plug I put in and put tank air to it or tank air via the parking brake valve like the old puff limiters were set up. I'm just not sure schematically what the valve in the first picture does or what its "looking for".....

Thanks. Ill have to dig into it a little more to try and understand how/why that CAC bypass is plumbed into that valve. I assume the valve I am asking about it the LDA valve? Thanks.

No. I still have them. Have a few interested parties but nobody has shown up yet to get them......

You are pretty much SOL. They have been obsolete for several years. Pretty much your only option is to source some used ones from a salvage yard or change the axle to something with normal wheel ends and brakes. This has been brought up many times on here. Below is a link to the most recent thread I could find on the matter. I always wondered about calling a parts place in France. Presumably there would be a lot more of these trucks over there since they are just rebadged Renaults and imported from France. Maybe they are not obsolete over there yet if you can determine the model number they were sold over there as. Just a thought if you can speak the language.

Ok I try to always follow up on threads I start. Anyway I got to working on removing this system from my truck. I started with removing the switch, indicator lamp and associated air plumbing in the cab. What I’m a little stumped on is what the valve in the first picture is? I will preface that question with how the switch was plumbed behind the dash. There is a large maybe 5/8” airline coming from I assume the air tank into a tee. Out of one branch of the tee goes to the air gauge. The other branch went to the switch. If the switch was turned “on” air would be sent to the valve in the first picture. The line went into a tee that was on the back of this valve and out of the other branch of that tee a line went to the cylinders on the bay pass duct. You can see there is a 3/8” plug in the back where the tee used to be. There is also a line going from this mystery valve to what I think is the aneroid (spelling?) valve on the intake manifold for the puff limiter in the second picture. The left and right sides of the valve in question are just dumping to atmosphere. Is it a quick release valve for when you flip the switch to “off” and/or when the manifold pressure gets high enough to dump the air on the puff limiter?

I think Joe Biden is from Scranton and Fetterman is originally from Reading, PA.

And yes the CS clones that are here in the sates go by many names, Metro, Field Marshall, DES, GTS, Powerline, and many others. From my understanding the "brand" is more or less the assembler and/or exporter. I think there are many workshops in Pune, India that assemble them for anybody and everybody with little to no difference between them. They are just copies of the original CS Listers manufactured in Dursley England.