Another trans swap question.

[Tinman22]

Im having an issue with the rpm drop with my t2090. When loaded with any more than 46k on the deck the drop from 1800 down to 1200 rpm is just too much in the top 4 gears. It seems like If I could split the top 4 and keep the rpm drop to half of what it is it would be easier on the engine. 

That 1200 to 1600 climb is brutal but once it hits 1600 I pulls better and smoother. Would an eaton 13 speed be a pain to swap?

Edited May 27, 2022 by Tinman22

[mrsmackpaul]

Well I dunno much about much.

Some quick searching on this site found some ratio charts

12 speed Mack is the multi speed built by Mack for Mack Thermodyne motors

So it is the true multi speed standard torque curve motor for Mack trucks

Your 9 speed isnt that much different so I'm not sure your gunna achieve a lot by swapping transmissions to a RoadRanger 

Thinking driving style might achive a lot more, dont let it lug as much and drive it in the rev range that it is designed to be driven in maybe

Bare in mind I have no idea what your motor is

The weight your shifting has little effect on the way it should be shifted, the transmission should always be shifted thru gears at the desgined rev's

 

As you can see the ratios are pretty similar 

Paul 

 

[Tinman22]

motor is an e6 350 econodyne. technique dosent have much to do with it. In 6,7,8,9 when you run it out to 1800-1900 rpm (as far as it will go) then shift it puts you back at 1200 rpm. I know the "operating range" is 1200-1800 rpm but the sweet spot seems to be 1600-1900 where it pulls better.

Edited May 27, 2022 by Tinman22

[Mark T]

Your Mack transmission has a fairly high overdrive. An Eaton 13 would need to be some form of RTLO 13 or you'll lose road speed.....and an Eaton isn't a direct replacement for a Mack transmission. 

[67RModel]

The T2090 has a 0.71 overdrive. Pretty much any Eaton 13 you will lay hands on has a 0.73 overdrive, which is very insignificantly slower so the overdrive point is moot. The real crux of the issue is the packaging and fitment of the Eaton into your truck. It is not a direct bolt-in process. The crossmembers are different. Also, the clutch linkage and driveshaft lengths are all different. There are probably other things I'm not thinking of that you would need to work out too. Maybe a Mack T2013 13 speed would bolt in easily and you would only have to modify driveline length? Plus you would retain the same 0.71 overdrive.....

[67RModel]

But as far as how the truck is running. You are pretty much exactly describing how an old Mack with these specs typically runs. Run it out the the rev limiter and catch the next gear at 1100-1200 rpm. Then slowly pull up to the rev limiter again.

[terry]

Have the top limit of RPM's set to 2000.      terry

[Mark T]

1 hour ago, 67RModel said:

The T2090 has a 0.71 overdrive. Pretty much any Eaton 13 you will lay hands on has a 0.73 overdrive, which is very insignificantly slower so the overdrive point is moot. The real crux of the issue is the packaging and fitment of the Eaton into your truck. It is not a direct bolt-in process. The crossmembers are different. Also, the clutch linkage and driveshaft lengths are all different. There are probably other things I'm not thinking of that you would need to work out too. Maybe a Mack T2013 13 speed would bolt in easily and you would only have to modify driveline length? Plus you would retain the same 0.71 overdrive.....

An older RTO ( cheap ) Eaton 13 is only .87 overgear.  That's a lot compared to the Mack or RTLO the Mack 13 or 18 would work too with less searching for parts.  Wonder what axle ratio is in it ? 

 

 

[67RModel]

1 hour ago, terry said:

Have the top limit of RPM's set to 2000.

I was going to suggest this too. If you are able to wind these out to 2000 or 2100 you are able to catch the next gear at 1400 or 1500. I have an E7 250hp maxidyne that is governed at 1750. I have always wanted to send the pump out to get worked over to 300hp specs and the governor set to 2100 just have not got around to it yet. My service book shows the same part numbers for the turbo and injectors for EM7-250, EM7-275, and EM7-300 so to me the only difference is in the pump. Would make drivability with the T2070 trans a little nicer I think. 

[Tinman22]

thanks for all the ideas. Ill need to figure out something. It woul seem that every town I go through is at the bottom of a hill. Im good to go until i hit 6th gear then the rpm drop vs gear ratio climb is just miserable. Not so bad till you get around 70k gross. At 118,500 gross It takes a minute to get up to 55mph. Once its there it holds its own.  Its just getting there thats the problem.

[mrsmackpaul]

 

Some more to look at and study before spending money 

 

Paul 

Edited May 27, 2022 by mrsmackpaul

[Brian L Blaylock]

If you really wanted to get carried away you could put a Spicer 1241 auxiliary transmission behind the transmission you already have 

[Tinman22]

I agree with the mack trans being an easier swap and would like to keep it that way if possible. 

It looks like a t2013 has exactly what im looking for in the top gears. 

6,8,10,13 are the same as the 2090 6,7,8,9 with a half split between them on the 13 speed.

now to find one.

Edited May 28, 2022 by Tinman22

[mrsmackpaul]

Just had a quick google, they are on ebay fully reco for 4975.00 Australian so dunno

 

3 grand in Yanky dollars maybe and its in Yanky land so that to me is good buying 

Struth spent that on a new input shaft and new high low gears and and sliding dog 15 years ago for a 12 speed 

[67RModel]

12 hours ago, Tinman22 said:

now to find one.

They are readily available overhauled through various places. You can try eprogear.com or Adleman's in Canton, Ohio. They might bang you on the core charge since you are not returning a 13 speed. You could try to find one locally in "operating condition", put it in, and hope for the best. Or you could find one locally for cheap and just use it as a core on a reman or just send it out for overhaul before sticking it in. The Mack 13 and 18s are considerably less desirable and reliable than an Eaton 13 or 18. Lots of range syncro and bearing failures. They can't take abuse like an Eaton can and generally just don't last as long between overhauls. But if you get a good one or a good overhauled unit and are not slip seating the truck you should be good for a long time. They are also considerably more expensive to obtain and/or overhaul than an Eaton. 

[67RModel]

Also for clarification I think the actual model number you would be looking for is Mack T2130....I think T2013 is a misnomer. It was later upgraded and name changed to T313. I think thy are pretty much the same thing so either would probably work. Ratios on the high side are probably identical. Personally I would look for a Mack T313LR. They have the half ratios you are looking for in gears 6-13. Plus LO is 15.91:1....excellent for getting heavy loads moving. The real nice feature in my opinion of the T313LR is the low reverse ratio.....its 28.98:1. That is lower than the LoLo reverse in an Eaton 8LL transmission. I like to be able to just idle in reverse regardless of load or grade and this easily provides that ability. Some would say its too low and slow but backing control with that low of a reverse is unmatched. The T313LR in my opinion is the ultimate "do all" transmission due to the low Lo and Reverse gears. Good enough for starting and backing off road plus it has the splits on the high side for gradeability at highway speeds.

Edited May 28, 2022 by 67RModel

[67RModel]

Here is the original Mack technical sales publication for the T313LR....

mack-maxitorque-es-13-speed-transmission-t313lr.pdf

[BOBWhite]

Both the 9 and 13 speed have the same 11 hole bolt pattern but I would check your transmission to see. I think the 11 hole pattern is a SAE standard but I am not sure. The input shafts might be different but I can't tell

https://www.pgttruckparts.com/mack-transmissions-s/2822.htm 

This is the web sight I look at, Don't know if there any good or not 

[Tinman22]

Does the 313 suffer from the same issues as the 2130 or did mack sort them out? 

Aluminium case would save some lbs. as long as it holds up.

[Mark T]

1 hour ago, Tinman22 said:

Does the 313 suffer from the same issues as the 2130 or did mack sort them out? 

Aluminium case would save some lbs. as long as it holds up.

Mack transmissions are usually either good or they're not (so to say)   If it's in good working order ?  They're pretty much engineered to be in a Mack and are friendly to the engine's ranges. It was good advise from 67Rmodel , a new reman that isn't abused after being installed will do what you're looking for.  Personally, I think for way too long Mack just assumed people actually knew how to use extended range transmissions. Truth is, many don't so the Mack transmission often was abused by misuse. The fullers put up with a lot more and often didn't have some of the abilities of a Mack.  2s or 3s were all pretty good transmissions as long as they were in working order.

[67RModel]

Yes these don’t necessarily have issues per se. they just don’t seem to have the extreme longevity an Eaton does. This is all anecdotal evidence mind you but all else being equal you will probably have to overhaul a Mack 13 before an Eaton. But 500k plus miles is easy to accomplish in the hands of a good driver(s). Like I said before they also get a bad rap due to their cost. They just have never reached the economies of scale that the Eaton units have. Parts are readily available but tend to cost more. They are also a good bit more to buy. Plus an overhaul will cost you more at shop “because it’s a Mack transmission”. If a T313LR bolted into your truck without any modifications I wouldn’t hesitate a second. A good solid reman will last you an extremely long time and you have to do no modifications to make it fit except for possibly shortening you driveshaft up. Plus you get to keep the truck all Mack which always has a nice ring to it…..

[Tinman22]

I just found one in michigan. seller claims its in good working order. he got the truck for the motor and parting out the rest. $750 takes it. Figured it was worth the core if nothing else.

It looks like it was behind a cat motor. Did mack put mack transmissions behind cat's?

Does anybody know when the t313 replaced the t2130?

Edited May 28, 2022 by Tinman22

[Tinman22]

looks like '01 for the changeover.

[Joey Mack]

I think the same year as when the granite was born..  jojo

[67RModel]

That T313LR publication I previously attached was printed in 2/2002 so at least by then….there is also a T313LR21 and T31321 which were rated for 2100 ft-lbs of torque…probably for the Cummins powered CLs and when the MP8 got up to 1860 ft-lb rating. Do you know if the one you got is the LR version?