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brettj3876

What's the turbo that rochester uses?

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Posted (edited)

Anyone have the part #? Is it a 171701? This past summer we found a bw 171702 (s475 1.32ar) for 900$ for the 93 and can't seem to locate another one for the 99. 

Does rochester use 1.32ar? Trying to get info is like pulling teeth sometimes. Here's the stock s300 that came on the 350 next to the s475. A bit laggy but it sees around 38 by 1400

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Edited by brettj3876
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what size turbo comes on a 2000 e7-427? 

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Not 100% sure but I think its the s400 series with a 1.15 or 1.25 ar. Not sure on compressor specs. The s475 is 75/96mm. 

 

 

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think i have a blown turbo off a 2001 e7-460 laying around some where in the shed still. have to look. 

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Posted (edited)

also unsure how ever 38 psi on a 350 is quite high average boost on a Stock 350 Might see 30 psi 

38 psi I would expect to see on a 454- 427

Edited by fjh
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9 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

Anyone have the part #? Is it a 171701? This past summer we found a bw 171702 (s475 1.32ar) for 900$ for the 93 and can't seem to locate another one for the 99. 

Does rochester use 1.32ar? Trying to get info is like pulling teeth sometimes. Here's the stock s300 that came on the 350 next to the s475. A bit laggy but it sees around 38 by 1400

Just did a quick check on the BW 171702. It is available new $759. Just get it from a turbo shop, it will not be Mack but you can tune it. It comes with a 1.32 A/R turbine housing just as the one you have. If yours is a bit laggy go down to the 1.15 A/R housing and it will pull better than your 93. Boost will come on at 200-300 lower RPM's and it may make more boost than your current BW475 so be carful. Total with 1.15 housing should be around $1000. Have fun!!  

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6 hours ago, AZB755V8 said:

Just did a quick check on the BW 171702. It is available new $759. Just get it from a turbo shop, it will not be Mack but you can tune it. It comes with a 1.32 A/R turbine housing just as the one you have. If yours is a bit laggy go down to the 1.15 A/R housing and it will pull better than your 93. Boost will come on at 200-300 lower RPM's and it may make more boost than your current BW475 so be carful. Total with 1.15 housing should be around $1000. Have fun!!  

Ok thanks that's what I was wondering. I didn't know if it was a mack specific exhaust housing or not. For the work we do the 1.32 is good all around. Sees 32 by 1250 and 42 on a real cold day. I haven't talked to anyone running the setup we are yet. Before the summer is over we'd like to have Antrim dyno it

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Posted (edited)
5 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

Ok thanks that's what I was wondering. I didn't know if it was a mack specific exhaust housing or not. For the work we do the 1.32 is good all around. Sees 32 by 1250 and 42 on a real cold day. I haven't talked to anyone running the setup we are yet. Before the summer is over we'd like to have Antrim dyno it

There is probably not a lot of people to talk to about swapping turbo's on anything. Good luck if you find someone and then get them to work with you. I was alway told it is a liability thing. 

Antrim would be the experts at getting the turbo and other adjustments right. I have a S500-91 on my E9 and had to down size the housing to get it to spool lower at 1200RPM. I would actually like to get it down to 900, and closer to stock, but already have the smallest split housing for that turbo. There is plenty of air with a S475 even with the smaller housing. It just gives a larger RPM range to use. Had a Holset T50 before but it would not spool until 1700RPM, truck was used mainly for sled pulling. It would not pull a trailer at at cruse speed, alway had to drop a gear to get it to build boost then hang on.

Edited by AZB755V8

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On 4/27/2019 at 12:41 PM, AZB755V8 said:

Just did a quick check on the BW 171702. It is available new $759. Just get it from a turbo shop, it will not be Mack but you can tune it. It comes with a 1.32 A/R turbine housing just as the one you have. If yours is a bit laggy go down to the 1.15 A/R housing and it will pull better than your 93. Boost will come on at 200-300 lower RPM's and it may make more boost than your current BW475 so be carful. Total with 1.15 housing should be around $1000. Have fun!!  

When the boost comes on it hits like a train. Most hills on 81 in pa it will pull it in 8th L @65+mph loaded 70k +. If only it were a cat or 60 series the info would be all over. 

My dad is going to put a mechanical pump and get rid of the vmac1. Since we dropped the compression from 16.9 to 15.3 (the 93 tune up book says it 16.9 but almost every other site says 16.5. So IDK) the timing is off. It needs to be advanced a little more with the big injectors, turbo and blixxton. We heard about a resistor to fool the intake temp and supposedly it will help advance it a little.

 

Edit: finding someone to work with us isn't a problem. Its just getting info on little tweaks/hp mods is the hard part. We do all the work on the trucks, don't trust any new "mack techs". But we did manage to get the local cook brothers mack to sell us non vin low comp pistons instead of the oem. Wanted mack not aftermarket. 

The reason were going to a mech pump is to get the timing right. Too far retarded now. It shouldn't be rollin clouds of coal like it is now and even with that huge turbo the pyro will get 1050 on a long pull. No boost leaks any where, checked and checked again. New CAC less than 20,000mi on it same as the inframe.I know advancing timing will bring egt down and itll run better. Unless someone knows how to fool the vmac1 mech is the best option. 

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there is probably a way to fool the econovance system on the vmac1.

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We took our 98 CH with a 350 to mack and they reset it to 400 by doing injectors only, boost never goes much over 22 (like never)  and maybe 800 on pyro, mpg is good but does not like hills, Watts service manager suggested BW 631GC5173AM4X  ?????? 

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6 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

When the boost comes on it hits like a train. Most hills on 81 in pa it will pull it in 8th L @65+mph loaded 70k +. If only it were a cat or 60 series the info would be all over. 

Edit: finding someone to work with us isn't a problem. Its just getting info on little tweaks/hp mods is the hard part. We do all the work on the trucks, don't trust any new "mack techs". But we did manage to get the local cook brothers mack to sell us non vin low comp pistons instead of the oem. Wanted mack not aftermarket. 

The reason were going to a mech pump is to get the timing right. Too far retarded now. It shouldn't be rollin clouds of coal like it is now and even with that huge turbo the pyro will get 1050 on a long pull. 

If boost comes on like that you certainly have enough and look else were for power. The little mods are the secrets and are hard to find, but make it all work. 

To much timing is not good and may not be the issue. EGT will get to 1050plus easily, but you have mod'ed it to get more boost, something has to offset the gain. The factory setup is meant to be conservative. 

There are more than a few issues with the directions you are going. It is like having 5 people in the kitchen to make a cake and each in charge on one ingredient. The chances of screwing it up is pretty good as no one knows the whole recipe. Then add an oven that isn't quit right. 

I am only into mechanical set-ups, no electronics (old school). Then the guys into tuners, then a hybrid of both. To many different approaches will end in disaster. That said, your issue is fuel delivery. It is a combination of volume and duration. In both Mech and Elec most big mod'ed fuel systems, pump, injectors, lines, do not operate at max capacity but peak efficiency. A matched 13 or 14mm pump/injectors,etc will not be set to max flow but flow to crankshaft duration which is critical, shorter is better, longer will just make a lot of smoke. This should be able to be corrected with programing your ECM, but not many places doing that, just add on blixxton or such. Going Mech is going backwards (old school) and less tunable. Few people have the time, understanding and money to get a mod'ed engine to work to expectations, then work it everyday without issues and downtime. No emissions where you run, at least for the 99?

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Posted (edited)

Fooling v Mack ! You could try tweaking your base timing two or three degrees and see how it is  that will advance you to 24-25 under a pull , ,changing to the mechanical pump means a total line swap ect

Edited by fjh

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David if you have your truck reset to a 355/380 you will have 1560 torque same as a 427 instead of the 1460 you have now with the 400 setting

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Posted (edited)
2 hours ago, fjh said:

Fooling v Mack ! You could try tweaking your base timing two or three degrees and see how it is  that will advance you to 24-25 under a pull , ,changing to the mechanical pump means a total line swap ect

No emmisons or smoke checks out here in the woods of north east PA. Hardly ever get on the big road. Running frac sand locally

Yea my dad is set on going full mech. Lines are about 900 give or take. We did tweak the base timing 3-5 degrees and didn't make a bit of difference. 

@AZB755V8 we don't want more power necessarily on the 93, just want it running right. Its hardly broke in with ~20,000 miles on the rebuild. Under light load or no load it studder's and smokes until you step on it and the timing corrects itself. I've been running it in the 1400-1800 range. I don't want to stress the bottom end and lug it. Not to mention the ancient RT double over .62   13 is only rated for 1450. 

Could be gremlins possibly in the harness somewhere? We swapped injection pump for a rebuilt one and a rebuilt econovance to rule that out, New TEM and pretty much every other sensor along with the blixxton. The pro-link with cartridge says no codes. 

 

The pump guy were going to has a very good rep. He'll know how to set it up to run optimum. Were both happy with the power it has now. Pump guy just got done building a pump for a 2500hp 12V. He mentioned something about flat top plungers and quick fill cam? It makes sense your not looking for max volume. With higher pop off pressure fuel would be going in too late and not getting a proper burn. 

 

Thanks for taking the time to reply, really appreciate it. I'll have my dad read over this tonight  

We found a mech 350 entire engine/pump/lines/manifolds for 1500$ a hour away. who knows what's wrong with it but they say it turns 360 deg. 

Edited by brettj3876

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1 hour ago, 880joe said:

David if you have your truck reset to a 355/380 you will have 1560 torque same as a 427 instead of the 1460 you have now with the 400 setting

Or 380/410 that has 1660. 5173M4 im almost positive is on our 99 460. That turbo was put on a ton of E-7s as a factory replacement....don't quote me on that someone else will have to verify that. 

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I don't think the 380/410 program is available for the early etech

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Last of E7 not etech.

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The last e7's was also made in a 355/380 but I'm not sure if the torque on them is the same as the etech

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Posted (edited)
9 hours ago, fjh said:

Fooling v Mack ! 

Thinking you can’t manually fool V-Mac I or II, even with base timing advance. We cold weather bump a couple degrees, for start up at that advanced base setting...just to get first smoke. Once the econovance pressurizes and begins to hunt and compensate it uses engine position sensors to take you right back to where Mr.Software wants you to be, even with base advanced, so long as you don’t exceed the degrees it can compensate.

V-Mac II has the potential to make twice the advertised HP if properly modified. Don’t recommend it, or fully understand how, but I witnessed it. 

 

Edited by Mack Technician
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22 minutes ago, Mack Technician said:

V-Mac II has the potential to make twice the advertised HP if properly modified. Don’t recommend it, or fully understand how, but I witnessed it. 

I have said the same thing related to the E9's I mess with. It isn't that they can't make a lot more than stock HP. The Mack engineers had the recipes for more power but reliability, durability and environmental issues capped HP.  Not to mention beefing up transmissions and rears to handle the extra torque.They did a good job at keeping those "secrets" I mentioned before that make everything work. Volvo killed anything and everything that may have been archived years ago. It's all gone at least at Mack!! OH, Ya come to think Mack is gone for the most part to!!

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2 hours ago, Mack Technician said:

Thinking you can’t manually fool V-Mac I or II, even with base timing advance. We cold weather bump a couple degrees, for start up at that advanced base setting...just to get first smoke. Once the econovance pressurizes and begins to hunt and compensate it uses engine position sensors to take you right back to where Mr.Software wants you to be, even with base advanced, so long as you don’t exceed the degrees it can compensate.

V-Mac II has the potential to make twice the advertised HP if properly modified. Don’t recommend it, or fully understand how, but I witnessed it. 

 

You may be correct however.In my mind the software assumes you’ve set your base timing correct so you set it 3-4 advance it would be adding.  to the twenty or so it adds when the econovance operates I could be wrong but in my mind it works in that fashion!🤔

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5 hours ago, fjh said:

You may be correct however.In my mind the software assumes you’ve set your base timing correct so you set it 3-4 advance it would be adding.  to the twenty or so it adds when the econovance operates I could be wrong but in my mind it works in that fashion!🤔

Yea we found that didn't really work either. Well not like we hoped, might of got a few degrees 

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Posted (edited)
4 hours ago, brettj3876 said:

Yea we found that didn't really work either. Well not like we hoped, might of got a few degrees 

Yup I agree haven't ever seen much improvement on the smoke issue advancing the timing unless it was it was a retarded blu colored smoke ! in this case he claims to be getting black smoke in which case if the smoke don't clear up with 38 psi boost something else is a miss!I However I  believe if I'm reading this right the idea is to get a quicker spool and still keep that nice boost out put!

Edited by fjh

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Posted (edited)
59 minutes ago, fjh said:

Yup I agree haven't ever seen much improvement on the smoke issue advancing the timing unless it was it was a retarded blu colored smoke ! in this case he claims to be getting black smoke in which case if the smoke don't clear up with 38 psi boost something else is a miss!I However I  believe if I'm reading this right the idea is to get a quicker spool and still keep that nice boost out put!

No its the blue nasty smoke with a miss at no/low load until you step on it and the timing advances on the 93. 

Edit: it will roll coal until the turbo catches up but it clears right up 

 

The turbo question was for the 99 etech

Edited by brettj3876

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