Freightrain Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Ok, took the trip over to Watts show yesterday. Truck ran fine overall. With the little adjustment to the pump I noticed a slight increase in pyro(like 50-75*) on a pull along with slight temp increase of about 5-10*(goes to about 185* now). About the time I was getting off the PA pike I noticed a slight drop in boost. I was getting 15 lbs steady, but now it only goes 12-13 lbs and that's all. I can feel power difference even with just the slight drop. Just not like it was. I was concerned but got to Watts without any problem. While at the show I poked around under the hood to see if I could see anything wrong. Nope, all seems fine. I made the trip home with no problem, just still a couple pounds down on boost. It still gets pyro up to 950-1000* and temps goes to 185* so it is getting fuel(no clogged filters that I know of). No excessive smoke(clogged air filter). I think the old turbo is just giving up the ghost. It looked a bit rough around the edges on the vanes when I had it off removing heads last winter. I think the bit of extra heat just worked too hard on the vanes and thus taking boost out of it. Might need to upgrade this winter? Thoughts? Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hobert62 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 If 1 turbo worked good i bet 2 would work better. If upgrading it would be the perfect time to give it a little extra "cool" factor. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Just a thought on this.... What were the weather conditions, Temp, Hg pressure and humidity had a effect on how an engine runs. I think you drag race, same setup and one weeks runs to the next can be off quite a bit. Maybe the old girl was having a bad day, There is a lot of low pressure in your area now with the storms. Back years ago I could fell the difference in the power of my old MOPAR with the change in weather. Some nights it was a dog others nothing could touch it. Only thing was everyones car was doing the same thing... we all had fasters times. When EGT goes up, turbo efficiency goes down. I would bet that you take it on another run in cooler dryer weather your temps will be down and boost will be up. 1000 degrees should not hurt the turbine, I start backing off at 1100. It does seem that at that high temp, boost levels out. A newer turbo off a mechanical E7 would be a good upgrade, another 10-15 psi in boost would be a big kick in the rear. Only keep track of engine temp. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 15 PSI is on the low end of the range. The 237 factory setting was between 15-20. Provided no leaks between turbo to manifold gasket/engine, turbo is a definite suspect. 2 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 No visual leaks or whistle. Was always a solid 15. Then i chech it and it was at 13#. Like I said when I had turbo off it looked "rough" but happy when it was 15#. I think I am in the market for new/rebuild. Weather has been the same all summer....HOT. Should only get better in cool weather. I figure under 1000* is more then safe on pyro. I was curious how the change in fuel affected it. I'm sure the factory sets it at a very safe level. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 7 minutes ago, j hancock said: 15 PSI is on the low end of the range. The 237 factory setting was between 15-20. Provided no leaks between turbo to manifold gasket/engine, turbo is a definite suspect. Yep, 15psi is on the low side and the turbo is showing signs is age as Larry states. Leaks are alway possible, check the stamped steel intake seams. A sudden drop in 2psi could be weather, leak or the turbine giving up. It is easy enough to pull the exhaust and look into the turbine to see if more damage has happened. A good used E7 turbo should not be more than a few hundred bucks. Newer Tech and had more boost to start with, a day at the most for the swap. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 Larry, As I suggested, remove the hose on the inlet side and look at the fins. Pull the exhaust and look at the outlet too. Try "wiggling" the wheels to feel any sideways movement which would indicate bad bearings. Also look for evidence of oil on both the inlet and exhaust sides. 1 Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 21, 2016 Author Share Posted August 21, 2016 I will be pulling things apart this week to investigate. Ken, there did not seem to be any more oil on the outside of the turbo like we saw at the show. I know the shaft was tight before running it. Could be showing age issues from sitting. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 21, 2016 Share Posted August 21, 2016 make sure the pump is still getting full throttle. Also check the fuel pressure. Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 First thing I looked at was throttle. Might put gauge on it. I know my pyro was still getting up there so I was thinking it wasn't fuel related. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 The truck I run ever day will drop maybe three psi on a warm day.I go to work before daylight and it runs good at that time. Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 All summer it ran 15#, now suddenly not. Don't think weather has anything to do with it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 Shopping List 1. Turbo 2. Super secret nitrous shot for the Star (just in case) 3. Ketchup 4. Butter.... 1 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 (edited) Sumthin like this:http://www.ebay.com/itm/Mack-EM7-EM7-300-Truck-Turbo-Turbocharger-S3BL094-631GC514OM4X-/381725754741?hash=item58e0a0c575:g:IS4AAOSwt7ZXo822&vxp=mtr The only problem is hooking up the exhaust and pressure side. Mine has different piping. I'd just get another stock version to eliminate that hassle of changing things over. I just want it to work. Had thoughts of just getting mine reworked(if possible). Edited August 22, 2016 by Freightrain 1 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted August 22, 2016 Share Posted August 22, 2016 1 hour ago, Freightrain said: I'd just get another stock version to eliminate that hassle of changing things over. I just want it to work. Had thoughts of just getting mine reworked(if possible). Sometimes it is just good to go with what is there. The turbo shop should be able to get more out of your unit with a rebuild and wheel change. A good running 237 is a tough engine to beat and many, millions of, miles have been put on them. Had a friend that has a real good 237, Triplex combo in a B, the truck just plane hauled... Trans would be questionable if running with that torque fully loaded for a long time. I get in race mode even with these old truck, always can get more out of them but at a cost.... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 22, 2016 Author Share Posted August 22, 2016 With a simple rebuild/change I could get 20# of boost(high side of spec) what a real eye opener it would be. Just with a couple pounds lost I feel the difference. I can't imagine adding 5#. Wow. Ya, it's fun to make hot rods, but I agree....what cost. I don't want to have to fix it if it breaks. Better to leave well enough alone. 2 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lmackattack Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 My RS700L with the 285..... when I bought it I found out the first time I pulled a trailer that it did not make more than 14psi. No air leaks in the intake system. did not have bad blowby. had new filters etc... I put in new remain injectors. still was weak pulling and EGT was going up into danger zone. I thought the engine was tired and needed a rebuild. For shits and grins I took off the turbo to inspect it and found this... hard to tell in the pic but it was letting exhaust by pass the blades without spinning them. just a thought Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 Seems I remember something about that Trent. I'm going to get it pulled off this weekend and take a look. Might try to find a used/new/takeoff(something cheap?). Mine was packed full of wasp nests when I got it. I cleaned it up and it spun fine. Seems something "let go" on the trip. It definitely lost some "umph". Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 (edited) Found this on Ebay: http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-GENUINE-BorgWarner-185604-4LE-354-Mack-Turbo-Turbocharger-/262346428402?hash=item3d1510cff2:g:3lcAAOSwoBtW2LTc&vxp=mtr They list it as fitting ENDT675. What is the proper part number for a 237 turbo? For $500 I'd just buy a new one. My concern is the downpipe set up on mine being a firetruck engine. Not sure how universal things are. Have to look at mine when I get it unbolted. Or this one(seems the same) http://www.ebay.com/itm/MACK-TURBO-4LE-303-X5-SCHWITZER-185605-NEW-OLD-STOCK-/262551983812?hash=item3d215156c4:g:sjUAAOSw5L9XDVHn&vxp=mtr Edited August 23, 2016 by Freightrain Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 From 1984, Schwitzer 631GC-5103P9 with a center housing # 215SB-169 except for Dynatard. I think you said you have Dynatard? Than use Air Research 631GC-4101P17 with a center housing # 215SB-147. There may be other numbers for the 237 but it is all I have. Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 23, 2016 Author Share Posted August 23, 2016 I don't have a brake on it. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted August 23, 2016 Share Posted August 23, 2016 In theory either one than. I would see about getting yours rebuilt first. Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 Well got it off tonight. Bearings smooth but there is signs of oil on the pressure side(like I saw at show). Not sure if that is the issue? Both wheels look fine, no damage. I think the exhaust side might have looked uglier when I first took it off but with some miles it cleaned up the rust/crud. If there where issues with the pump not getting full throttle that would knock some boost also. I know it hasn't changed externally but wonder if something went wrong inside. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeavyGunner Posted August 24, 2016 Share Posted August 24, 2016 Hmmm, the plot thickens. Hope you get it figured out soon. Good luck. Quote The problems we face today exist because the people who work for a living are outnumbered by the people who vote for a living.The government can only "give" someone what they first take from another. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 24, 2016 Author Share Posted August 24, 2016 I contacted a local turbo shop. They can take care of it. Going to try to get it dropped off Friday afternoon and see what they think. They say 3-5 days if all goes well. Not sure if I will have them do it now or wait til after Sept 10-11 as I need the truck that weekend and can't be stuck waiting. I'm going to pull covers off the pump and see if anything looks out of place. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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