Dumb question

[Geoff Weeks]

 As with anything defective parts need to be replaced, but you don't change spacer bands when changing rims. The spoke determines what is required.

 If you have rims moving, you have a problem, defective or mis matched parts. If a rim spacer is damaged, replace it with the same width as the original. If you suspect a mis matched parts, then either consult someone who knows what should be or replace the whole assembly.

 All else fails, you can take the casting number off the spoke hub, from that you can determine the mfg, and contact them for the correct parts for that hub.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[Swishy]

When a wheels is run loose it can wear a few items to make it un tighterable

we build up the wheel spacer to take up the slack the wear created

 

[mrsmackpaul]

Yep, what Swishman sez

You blokes are over thinking this way way to much

When you tighten up on duals, if the wedges bottom you need a wider spacer

If you don't have one, weld a bit of roubd bar around to build them up, asin the Swishmans picture (top right) if still not tight enough, bunga bit of rod on the other side of the spacer

It really isnt very technical, if your chasing torque settings you need to start drivimg a auto, torque settings on spiders are for over educated engineer types, not for truck drivers

And if your gunna start horror truck stories, best go and fill up your double shot almond mocca latte ffs

Keep

It

Simples 

 

Paul

[Geoff Weeks]

Here, a DOT cop who knew what he was looking at would fail that. Yes, I have been though a few (very few) inspections where they knew enough and looked for wear, spun rim, and repairs to the assembly.

 Spacer rings aren't that much money, last time I bought some. I have never had a rim spin on something I assembled, but have seen plenty. I can see making that repair in the field, but not once back where the proper parts are available. Wouldn't pass inspection.

 In 20" and 22" stuff the spacer band will most likely fall in the 4" to 4 1/2" range (We don't have 24" in this part of the country, so no experience with those). Lighter axles found on smaller trucks may use bands that are smaller than 4", but that limits the tire and rim width you can fit.

 You say I am "over thinking" things, but you are repairing "spun" wheels? Hum, that lead to the question why are your wheels spinning in the 1st place?

 I did heavy haul, so  carried above the normal weight on axles. Never had a wheel spin, even on hard brake applications.

 Here we had Webb, Gunite, Erie, and Dayton (and may be more that I am forgetting) making spoke wheels,  there were different attaching methods and hardware used, some of which was compatible with other brands and some isn't. Just for example Erie used captive bolts and ball seat nuts, with wedges designed for that. They are not interchangeable with wedges and nuts for for stud based spokes with flat nuts. You CAN  fit mis matched parts, just as you CAN fit mis matched lock rings on wheels, but in both cases it can cause a failure, rims may blow the ring out and kill you. Wheel end is just likely to spin and take out the valve, but could snap the stud and cause the loss of the rim/tire.

 For a while in the 90's (It may still be going on) Canada was having trouble with wheel end coming off trucks and killing people. If they found a wheel end problem they impounded the truck for a week (if I remember correctly) and it couldn't be moved without being repaired, even if repaired the same day, the week had to be "served" before the truck released. I take wheel end seriously, and have never had a problem with spoke wheels. I have had many problems with disk wheels.

 For a while IHC used the Erie system, my 1942 has them.

 If the spoke has been worn from loose rims, it is not a one-off time someone didn't install them correctly, it is something that has been going on for a long time. I question the maintenance practice of an operator with that.

 Parts that are mated and have no movement between them don't wear!

[HarryS]

This is a timely subject as I am almost finished changing from 10.00x20 tube type to 11r22.5 tubeless. I noticed the spacers on the duals are a different width, one is 4" and the other 3 5/8". Anybody got a 20" x 4" pie crust type for sale?  On the side with the 3 5/8" one there is more stud coming through. The wedges didn't bottom out but almost. Both sets of drives run nice and true at about 200 ft lbs torque.

[Geoff Weeks]

New ones should be available, but not stocked. Special order item.

 There are two classes of wedges for duals. Heel and heeless clamps.  Heeless should never have the heel end touch the spoke, Heel can have a small gap or touch, provided it doesn't touch until the nut is torqued to 80% of final torque.

I would be surprised if the side with the narrow spacer has proper duel spacing, and the tires don't "kiss" on the sidewall when loaded.

If you measure the flat part of the spoke, from where it starts to taper up in the back, (where the taper starts, don't include the taper) to the end of the cast spoke.

If the measurement is:

6" try a 4" spacer band

6 1/4" try a 4 1/4" spacer band

If it is less than 6" pay close attention to duel spacing with modern tires.  My K-7 has a low GVW of 16500lb still uses a 6" wide (long?) spoke, the same as many modern hubs built for 11x r 22.5 tires.

Spacer bands are "sized" by the outside measurement across the band, not inside width.

 These are the most common combinations.

 Also there are  whole pages of wedges for duals with differing profiles and depths.  It isn't a "one size fits all" type of assembly.  The wedge must go over the end of the spoke and not be right at the end of the spoke casting when tightened.

 My 1942 IHC with 8.25x20 tires still takes a 4" band, I doubt that narrow band is correct.

 If you can find a casting number, or if it is branded (Mack, Gunite etc) see if you can find a part number in a parts book for the correct wedges and spacer.

 

Edited July 16, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[Geoff Weeks]

Heelless clamp:

Heel type clamp:

4" spacer band:

https://www.napaonline.com/en/p/TWDSB4020K?cid=paidsearch_shopping_dcoe_google&campaign=GSC-Towing&campaign_id=8911645606&adgroup_id=106416389246&adtype=pla&gclid=EAIaIQobChMIh83M_92TgAMV3t7jBx0njAqgEAQYAiABEgITJ_D_BwE&gclsrc=aw.ds&

Edited July 16, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[mowerman]

I’ll be doing the same thing hopefully soon hopefully I can find something used around here thankfully container chassis use the same type

[HarryS]

I have the heel type clamps marked "Mack". As far as the spacer there is plenty of space between the tires and no load. It is a hobby truck. I never noticed the difference in width until both spacers were laying side by side and then saw the size marked on along with the brand Firestone. I had noticed a little more thread sticking past the lug nut on the one side but it still tightens down without the spacer heel touching the spoke. Hoping for lot of ride improvement with the radials.

[Geoff Weeks]

I ran 10R x 20 radials (Tubetype) and 11r 22.5 tubeless or 295-80 22.5 (same diameter as an 11 but higher load capacity) Can't say I noticed any ride difference between them.

Edited July 16, 2023 by Geoff Weeks

[mowerman]

Let’s face it, Mack’s  we’re never known for their comfort… Bob

[other dog]

15 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Yep, what Swishman sez

You blokes are over thinking this way way to much

When you tighten up on duals, if the wedges bottom you need a wider spacer

If you don't have one, weld a bit of roubd bar around to build them up, asin the Swishmans picture (top right) if still not tight enough, bunga bit of rod on the other side of the spacer

It really isnt very technical, if your chasing torque settings you need to start drivimg a auto, torque settings on spiders are for over educated engineer types, not for truck drivers

And if your gunna start horror truck stories, best go and fill up your double shot almond mocca latte ffs

Keep

It

Simples 

 

Paul

It might not be the "proper" way, but I have welded a few beads across the back of the wedges too, so they would clamp tighter. Whatever works, eh? Never had any DOT man look at anything that close.

[mowerman]

Hey genius, Bubba, thanks for sharing… Bob

[mrsmackpaul]

41 minutes ago, other dog said:

It might not be the "proper" way, but I have welded a few beads across the back of the wedges too, so they would clamp tighter. Whatever works, eh? Never had any DOT man look at anything that close.

I can honestly say the same, if my tyres are all good with plenty of tread and all my clearance lights are working, log book is correct etc they dont give me anymore than a passing glance

But I have never driven in the US or Canada so I can't comment on the rules etc over there

 

Paul 

[mrsmackpaul]

1 hour ago, mowerman said:

Let’s face it, Mack’s  we’re never known for their comfort… Bob

The first road testin Australia of a air ride cab in a R model 

The editor made the comment along the lines of " Mack trucks ride and there is little reason for the air ride cab"

I guess it all depends what he was used to, but Macks are as you describe

 

Paul

[Geoff Weeks]

I agree, most inspectors don't even know what they are looking at. I've had two that looked at the inside of the spokes and the spacer rings as well as the outside in all my years and inspections.

I am not saying that you'll run into that every day.

 I do know if you use the right parts you'll never have spun wheels or other wheel end problems.

What you choose to do is up to you.

I know many that will put aluminum "Budds" on short steel studs, and claim there is no problem. I know better and you'll never hear me say you can do it.

I'm just trying to explain how it was done from the get -go. What to look for and how to select the right parts.

[Joey Mack]

I am not a fan of the short Budd studs on any wheel, of course steer axles are a bigger concern.