wrenching4life Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Hey all I just finished putting our E9 in our superliner back together, and I am wondering how much boost pressure I should be seeing? Dale Francis re worked the injection pump ( V8 ambac) made custom injectors, I also got performance heads from him, and I am running his over sized injection lines. The turbo is a MACK 5142AM (75mm) turbo. The engine is fuel fed by a FASS Fuel system. And I have dual outside air cleaners. I am only seeing about 30 to 33 lbs of boost. That seems low to me, Dale said I should see around 45. any thoughts? I have checked for boost leaks and cant seem to find any. Thanks all!! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKTRUCKS4 Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 When I couldn't find my leak, I blocked the inlet side of the turbo with a rubber gasket and clamped a steel plate to it. Removed the rockers that held any valves open, and pressurized the entire system. That way you know all connections are not leaking. My leak was a valve seat ready to let go. Dodged a bullet. Dale also did my turbo, pump was turned up by someone else, injectors are stock and I get 40 pounds of boost. 2 Quote Live every day like it's your last, because one of these days, it will be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 are you seeing smoke under load? If not check the throttle linkage make sure it's going full on and your getting full stroke 30 is stock boost Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back In Black Pulling Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 If you got his heads and his headers the boost may be lower because every thing is flowing better. Might not see full boost until you really work it. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrenching4life Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 The linkage is going full and just breaking over (per Mack instructions, i am seeing a haze out of the stacks I would not call it heavy smoke at all. I am using brand new stock manifolds that are ported and polished. The exhaust is 5" turbo to stacks and 5" to 6" stacks no mufflers. The 3 days after the first heat cycle, I had 88k on the lowbed grossed 130K if that's not working/ loaded I am not sure what is haha. That is when I was getting around 30-33 lbs the boost gauge was bouncy (flutters) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Check for boost leaks! are running dual airccleaners? doubt the under hood single will handle the air you need to have well Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back In Black Pulling Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) I take it you have the stock air cooler ? Should be plenty big for what your doing. Have similar prob , driving down road get steady 50psi ,hook to the sled and flutters between 50 n 60 , trying different air cooler . Martins told me they had same prob on 1st truck they built, I had no problem getting 39 psi with stock parts working the truck with under hood air cleaner . Is that pump from that engine ? is timing set for that pump ? Had different timing settings. Edited May 7, 2017 by Back In Black Pulling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 (edited) 1 hour ago, Back In Black Pulling said: I take it you have the stock air cooler ? Should be plenty big for what your doing. Have similar prob , driving down road get steady 50psi ,hook to the sled and flutters between 50 n 60 , trying different air cooler . Martins told me they had same prob on 1st truck they built, I had no problem getting 39 psi with stock parts working the truck with under hood air cleaner . Is that pump from that engine ? is timing set for that pump ? Had different timing settings. Wow Im surprised you not having issues with that volume of air going thru that filter I've seen that rubber elbow collapse on the single under hood style with a moderately cranked engine 33 psi boost stock turbo! how ever that may have been a washed filter not great for use with a high volume situation ! The timing idea is a possible cause however the engine has been timed from 17 to 24 for different years and horse power ratings.I have had them not run correctly timed to the number stamped on the pump ! IE: at 17 stamped on the pump very retarded smokey bump it to 19 or 22 OK .! In reply to the original poster, as mentioned you might bump it beyond the pump setting and see if it steps up the game a bit! Edited May 7, 2017 by fjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrenching4life Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Valves are adjusted per the manual, I'm running 20° timing that's what dale told me to set it to, yes I have dual air cleaners side mounted with Australian snorkels, and K&N air filters. Again iv found no boost leaks And spraying soap water showed no issues. Yes it is the stock air to air intercooler that was on the truck when we got it. As well, the pump is original to the truck as far as I know. Judging by what you all are saying I should be seeing all of 45 lbs with my motor set up, and I'm far from that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Let me make a comment here and say something about testing air air cooler.I have seen them tested differnt ways and if your not applying 25 or 30 psi to it your going to miss a leak.A good freind of mine that i run with was having low boost and i ask him how he check.He say soap and water with it running 2100.We get it here after work and pressure it up and no more than 10 psi can i get on it and it was the cooler cracked.I ant charging for this info so check it out. 2 Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BC Mack Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 are you using the small gauge on the dash? if so, try using a larger gauge of known calibration plumbed in directly... I've chased ghost problems caused by dash gauges reading incorrectly... BC Mack Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Back In Black Pulling Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 9 hours ago, fjh said: Wow Im surprised you not having issues with that volume of air going thru that filter I've seen that rubber elbow collapse on the single under hood style with a moderately cranked engine 33 psi boost stock turbo! That was when truck was working everyday with all stock parts. Currently i do not use any air filters , but i only go 300ft (at lest thats the idea) at a time. Did have one gauge read dumb kinda like your saying . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrenching4life Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 He was checkIng boost just holding it at 2100? Heck that's no way to check. I built a tool that clamps onto the turbo intake side (4") with a gauge- valve and a relief so I know exactly what Psi I'm at, and compare to the gauge on my dash, I put 30lbs to the whole motor And also did another test by isolating and just testing the intercooler. That's as high as I felt I needed to go. Perhaps I'll have to test again at a higher pressure but dead headed at 30 pounds was at the time all I dared to go. Heck if nothing showed a major leak by then id say I was good, I still must be missing something 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 There are two issues that work together, Fuel and Boost. Dale has done work on several of my E9's and knows what it takes to get an E9 to run real good. It sounds like you have all the right stuff but... The pump is the first thing, how far did he tune it up on the fuel? It should be able to easily blow black smoke not just a haze under a good load especially if you are governed at 2100RPM's. Check the fuel galley pressure, it should be 20PSI or more on a turned up pump. I don't know what turbo it is but if it is a stock Mack or does not have the right turbine housing it could be an issue. Tuning sounds right at 19-20. Don't go over that for a working truck. I had a Holset T5 (86mm) on one engine and it would not spool until 1800RPM then look out it ran like a freight train and made over 55PSI. It was set for sled pulling not the road with a load. Governed at 3000RPM's is OK if only you are driving it and watch the Pyro!! Replaced the Holset with a BW S500 (91mm) and to big a Turbine housing and spooled at 1600RPM, down sized the housing and spools at 1200RPM's and is drivable with a load on now. My gage goes to 60 and it pegs easily. I also had torn connector couplings (leaks) and got over 30PSI with the Holset and it had a tore up Turbine wheel from chewing on pieces of a exhaust valve seat. Check Pump first Turbo second. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Do you have a pyro plumbed in what temps are you seeing? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrenching4life Posted May 8, 2017 Author Share Posted May 8, 2017 not sure on the pump, I gave Dale all the spec's and he said he would build all my components to match, he said i should be seeing around 45 lbs and 750 hp. all my gauges are Autometer, i have a boost gauge that goes to 60 lbs and i have a pyrometer that has yet under a hard load to get above 1100 degrees, i do keep a close eye on it. The pyro is post turbo in the 5" elbow off the turbo. The turbo is a MACK Australian Road Train Turbo 610hp turbo, its a 75mm Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) That turbo should be putting out in excess of what you need to achieve good boost In my opinion ya need to leak check the whole system to the boost your expecting to run , We have an adapter to put into the After cooler on the turbo side and pressure up the whole system heads and all ya need to bar the engine around a bit to get the valves in the right spot to pressure it up or pull the rockers to close the valves .but its the ultimate way to ensure you have no leaks! Stock coolers tend to crack on the hot side top front! There has been instances where boost can be dumped out the Air drier Depending on how you gave the inlet of the compressor plumbed!! This can happen on the v8 as well but you would likely hear it unless your running straight pipes! Edited May 8, 2017 by fjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dirtymilkman Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Run your boost gauge to a different port on the intake. I had this same issue on a 427, the gauge would flutter like crazy. There's different ports to plumb into. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZB755V8 Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 That turbo should do the HP you are after. You drove the truck before the work? After all the engine work, does it pull A LOT better? What is the governed RPM's? There is a lot that can be adjusted in a pump besides more fuel. What is the torque rise setting? If the smoke is hazing at full RPM's and under load that is as much as you are going to get. Black smoke is excess and will get you in trouble with emissions. If you told Dale it was for road use maybe he took that into account. For fun or pulling engines there is no EPA to deal with. The Pyro is a question, in all the tuned up engines I have been around the Pyro will go above 1300 with just a little more fuel. If you are topping at 1100 under full load that pump is well matched to the power and anyone should be able to drive it without fear of hurting it. It is a balance of fuel and boost to get the power. The boost gauge should be plumped into the center intake manifold to reduce needle bounce. Do your double checks with a mechanical not electric gauge. A liquid filled one will reduce the needle bounce even more. We are all trying to help here but what is Dale saying about the lack of boost pressure if there are no leaks? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 (edited) your tool from the inlet sounds like it worked fine a 4 inch piece of 3- 4 inch exhaust pipe ( depending on your cooler) caped off and drilled and taped for 1/4 inch pipe thread and a pressure reg set to 40 psi will do the trick Good known gauge! you can also make the cap not drill it and back feed from where the puff limiter is installed ! once you ares sure its tight then we can talk twisting the dogs tale some more! Just some ideas to giter done! Edited May 8, 2017 by fjh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
brutus998 Posted May 24, 2017 Share Posted May 24, 2017 I haven't heard a lot of good things about the mack 610 turbo. Need to get an BW s480 turbo. He sells them, cant believe he didnt recommend/ sell you one. Low RPM's still get you 45 lbs of boost and low EGT's with that turbo. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wrenching4life Posted June 2, 2017 Author Share Posted June 2, 2017 (edited) The egt's are low loaded driving hard, and no matter what I can't get over 34 lbs. apparently that's all the steam she's got. Edited June 2, 2017 by wrenching4life Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted June 2, 2017 Share Posted June 2, 2017 Well then if etemps are low and your positive the throttle is going to full on and the stop full off you got good fuel preasure give the pump a tweak. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Doctor Jr. Posted June 12, 2017 Share Posted June 12, 2017 I've always heard that 610!turbo was not the greatest. I too recommend the BW S480. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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