52 L Model Restoration Cost

[SMFire History]

All-

As many of you may be aware Santa Monica Firefighters Relief Fund purchased one of our older Mack engines several years ago. It's a 52 LS125 and we have spent a small amount ($12,000) purchasing the rig, registering, insuring, and getting it safely on the road. It needs a lot of repairs to be a full functioning rig but it will putt around town at 25 MPH.

We are in the initial stages of making a budget for a complete refurbishment/restoration and I'm looking for help in determining costs. We're not shooting for an NCRS type restoration but want it to be very nice. It will be in our community for the next 100 years (I hope) and used to raise money for our Relief Fund which allows us to support worthy causes throughout Santa Monica. My initial BIG number I think would be $150k but I am trying to determine if that's about right. We have a few donors that are willing to make significant contributions but would like some type of estimate for the project. There is not a shop around here that I can drop it off and have it completely restored. Are there shops outside SoCal that specialize in Macks and can make this like new? Even then we are really trying to get our members and the community involved in the restoration rather than just farming it out. I have access to a local rig and it's receipts that had a significant restoration a few years ago so that helps. It has some common items that needed attention but our rig has more to be done.

Any assistance in determining costs would be helpful. Here's a partial list of things I think MAY need significant attention. Just looking for ballpark figures until I can get real quotes:

Located in SoCal so that may increase costs.

1- Engine seems fine but I will do a compression test. Rebuild Cost? Will need cleaning/painting/gaskets, etc.

2- Transmission is noisy (unless it's the rear end). Shifts fine but could use a rebuild. Cost?

3- Rear end is noisy (unless it's the tranny). Rebuild?

4- Hale Pump is inop. Also missing the shift pieces at the panel. Has not been run since mid 80's. I'm going to try to see if it spins this week.

5- Paint/Body: Very little rust. This I think is going to run anywhere between $25-30K but may have a donor lined up for this. We may customize for seating in the rear.

6- Chrome: $8-12K?

7- Gauges- We have 9 that need to be done at $4500?

8- Complete Rewire $2-3k with everything new.

9- Air brakes- No clue. I replaced the maxi switch and two rear cans already. Lots of air leaks (Or one big one!)

10- Generator & Starter rebuild $1000

11- Need Rostand Bell- $1000

12-Carb Rebuild $300-500

13- Custom Stainless Fuel Tank $3000

14- Glass-All...?

15- Stainless fasteners $3000

16-Upholstery- $750-1000

17-Steering box rebuild ?

18- All New exhaust (manifolds seem fine) but will replace gaskets

19- Radiator recored ? Water pump rebuild?

20- Clutch- Needs adjustment or repair

21-Driveshaft u-joints repaired/repainted

22-Repair one small dent in wheel

23- Manual parking brake rebuilt

24- Frame cleanup and paint

25-Switches in cab (some of these may need to be replaced)

26- Rebuild growler

27- We need some warning lights, etc. TBD

28-May consider adding the small PTO pump that Oceanside's rig has? Anyone have a line on one of these or know the cost?

29- Fuel pump rebuild $350?

Obviously labor is a big cost for the items that we cannot do ourselves. We have some motorheads so the basics of removing generators/carbs/ etc and sending them out is no big deal. But I'm not sure our guys are willing to do the clutch, etc. Oceanside's main mechanic that works on their 52 is more than willing to help.

Thank you for taking the time to read through this long post and sharing any insight.

Dom

[609albert]

Dom, the #1 thing you have is a plan and some help, if you Mack is a 125 it should have a Hall-Scott engine they are

big engines. how many miles or hours on it? I would think you could do the restore for below the 150 est.if you did some of the work inhouse. I had my LS85 54 Mack off frame done and the top side was clean but the bottom was rust

from salt in N.Y.,did new brakes, rebuilt hydrovac, all new wiring with cloth loom, paint down to bare ,epoxy primer ,

2 part paint, clear coat,new gold lettering and stripping ,new 400gal poly tank and a few items rechromed,seat redone,

Mack 707 engine and drive train was good ,had to replace rear diamond plate running board and 2 other sections,4 new

batteries,installed a hydraulic power steering unit. their are a lot of L models on the east coast and I can say that they are all different. My email is hinoki22@comcast .net and I'll send photos

[Superdog]

Dom, the #1 thing you have is a plan and some help, if you Mack is a 125 it should have a Hall-Scott engine they are

big engines. how many miles or hours on it? I would think you could do the restore for below the 150 est.if you did some of the work inhouse. I had my LS85 54 Mack off frame done and the top side was clean but the bottom was rust

from salt in N.Y.,did new brakes, rebuilt hydrovac, all new wiring with cloth loom, paint down to bare ,epoxy primer ,

2 part paint, clear coat,new gold lettering and stripping ,new 400gal poly tank and a few items rechromed,seat redone,

Mack 707 engine and drive train was good ,had to replace rear diamond plate running board and 2 other sections,4 new

batteries,installed a hydraulic power steering unit. their are a lot of L models on the east coast and I can say that they are all different. My email is hinoki22@comcast .net and I'll send photos

I thought only the type 21 had the Hall-Scott engine?

[609albert]

yes ,superdog is correct the type 21 had the Hall-Scott engines 80 L units where built and their hoods where 11" longerI saw one in Phoneix Ar.

[SMFire History]

We have the 707.

[SMFire History]

Albert-

Thanks for the info.

[fxfymn]

$150K should buy you a "Let me write you a check(s), and call me when it is done" restoration. If you decide to go that route don't be constrained by your location as it may be less expensive to ship it out to a shop that specializes in truck restoration that is not in your area. If you decide to go that route PM me and I will give you the contact info on an excellent restorer I know in NC who will probably come in at less than $100K for the work you want.

But, if money is tight, and isn't always, you can come in at around $50K if you are willing to do some of the work yourselves. It does not take a lot of skill to remove the bright work from the truck and send it out to a plating shop and you can save even more if you are willing to buff the parts out before you send them out. If you are dead set on a body off restoration than you can save by doing the body removal and having it blasted. Just make sure you thoroughly document everything as you remove it and "bag and tag" every item, not matter how small. As a friend once told me "Anyone can take them apart, it's when you have to put it back together that most folks fail."

Top quality paint is probably going to run anywhere from $15K to $20K depending on how much body work is required. if you keep it to Mack factory gold leaf that should run around $4 to 6K. Plating can run up to $10 to 15K depending on how rough the items are and how much prep work you are willing to put into them.

I spent around $300.00 per wheel to put brakes on. That included re-sleeved wheel cylinders, new master cylinder, re-lined shoes, and new hoses and lines. i did all the work myself. Obviously you will not need wheel cylinders, etc. The re-lined shoes were about $50.00 per wheel. Same for the parking brake disc linings.

A re-built water pump was around $150.00 last year and I have had clutches done at the same shop for around $200.00.

As for the engine; if it is running well now don't mess with it. clean it, paint it, re-do some of the accessories such as the carb, water pump, etc. and leave the rest. You mentioned the exhaust manifolds; unless they are leaking I would not remove them. They are prone to cracking and messing around with them is just asking for trouble.

Don't mess with the fuel pump. Add an electric pump and regulator and then by-pass the factory pump. Cost; less than $100.00.

Is it a TR6710 transmission? If so mine has a whine when you let off in 5th gear and another unit I drove with the same tranny did the exact same thing. Could be the nature of the beast. I re-built the transfer case and rear end and it did not cure the whine.

Lastly; PM "firemack" on this site. He managed the restoration of Radnor's 1954 Mack B model and I'm sure he can offer better advice on what you are up against.

Good luck and feel free to PM me if I can help out in any way.

[SMFire History]

Thank you for the detailed reply. I'm working a few angles to determine a range of options and appreciate all the input.

We're still working with potential donors and lining up solid numbers for our project.

Any other input is appreciated.

[SMFire History]

Double post. Sorry

[thomastractorsvc]

I had a tivo of the revamped American restoration show and a restoration shop in socal was highlighted redoing a le france truck for a fire fighter museum, anyways it was all stripped when it was dropped off and he did it for I think $25k because his dad was a firefighter and thats all the money they had.

Just looked it up the guys name is bodie stroud industries

[fxfymn]

Another great resource for you would be to reach out to Doug Klink at the Reliance Fire Museum in Estes park, CO. Doug is active in fire truck restoration circles and does restorations at his shop in CO. He has been featured on the PBS show that I believe is called "Restorations".

Very nice guy and I'm sure he would be helpful to you.

http://reliancefiremuseum.org/

[Charlie Hatfield]

I agree with fxfymn, Doug Klink is very good source of know how much it cost to do different areas of restoration. Price depends on how far you want go into restoration. How perfect do you want it to be?, that is the question you need to ask to determine how deep to go in a restoration.

[SMFire History]

Thank you to all who responded to our request. We had a potential restorer here in SoCal come by to get a good look at our project and give us a rough estimate.

We should have a detailed proposal with costs, options, timeline and a contract to review in the next few weeks.

Dom

[fxfymn]

Dom, Make sure your restorer has done a fire truck before and you are able to go see the work that he did. I have seen far too many cobbled up "restorations" on fire apparatus because the restorer didn't have a clue about what is correct or not correct on a fire truck.

IMO the only thing worse than not restoring a worthy truck is spending the money to have a half-assed restoration done that actually makes the truck less worthy. Things like plastic wire, stick on gold leaf, incorrect plating, and aluminum diamond deck are all big no-no's that show up on a lot of "restorations".

If you have not done so I strongly urge you to call Doug Klink and at least talk to him about your project. He is very knowledgeable and is a very nice guy who I'm sure would be willing to spend some time talking to you.

Here is another resource you may want to contact: http://www.texasfiremuseum.org/They do restorations and have a beautiful Mack LS125 sedan cab from Long Beach, CA that they have done. Look them up and give them a call.

[609albert]

fxfymn is right on ,restoring is just that and the devil is in the detail for the period of the truck, just stick with it and keep the group posted with pic's

[SMFire History]

^^^^^^ Agreed. The restorer we are considering has been great from the start. Here are some of the reasons I like him (not in any particular order):

1. He is known to a member of our department.

2. He was a fire mechanic for a local department for 14 years before starting his own business.

3. He has knowledge of Mack's and has worked on similar rigs.

4. He wants to do the job right. He was offered more $ to do it faster and he was not interested. He said it had to be done to the goal of the finished product and not to a time frame.

5. He asked very good pertinent questions and answered ours above my expectations.

6. He will allow us to participate when possible.

There are many others but I won't bore you with them.

I will be sure to start a build thread once our funding has been finalized.

Thanks again.

Dom

[609albert]

you guy sounds like the' MAN ' and qualified to do the job.

[mackdaddy]

I ended up with a Mack B 4 door fire truck. Engine is bad. anyone know of a source for the 707's?

[Loadstar]

I ended up with a Mack B 4 door fire truck. Engine is bad. anyone know of a source for the 707's?

There's one on eBay..... Asking 2500 or best offer. It's in Virginia..... been on there for awhile.

[609albert]

I have the 707 (gas) in my LS85 ,but if I had to do a engine I would do a 237 MACK DIESEL

[fxfymn]

I ended up with a Mack B 4 door fire truck. Engine is bad. anyone know of a source for the 707's?

Is that the one out of the museum in CA?

[mackdaddy]

yes, it is........didn't really want it but help was needed to keep the original trucks intact They will be continuing to thin the herd until a replacement home is found.

I don't know squat about fire trucks.

[yarnall]

yes, it is........didn't really want it but help was needed to keep the original trucks intact They will be continuing to thin the herd until a replacement home is found.

I don't know squat about fire trucks.

Here is a 707 on eBay. Pretty pricey though. I paid $1200 for one. I thought that was ok.

http://m.ebay.com/itm/Mack-Thermodyne-707-Six-Cylinder-Engine-Transmission-/161869635382

There was one in Texas on Craigslist a few months ago but I cannot find it now. I would have bought it if it were closer.

Mike.