Red Horse

I believe they do both-some are built by others, while I believe others are 100% Cat. I know for a fact some of the real small machines (mini's) are Wacker-Neusum (sp?). Not sure about others. You are probably right on Hitachi as for sure some Deeres are built by Hitachi.

Agree on hearing KSC's view. Also agree with your last statement..."what a mess". And how about this statement..."“And it will be a lot easier for us to continue to fully integrate our trucks with our construction machinery if we take full control of the manufacturing process. It also better places us to serve our customers’ needs in a quicker and more satisfactory manner.”..Marketing 101 bullshit at its finest! Let's see, they are building it in a plant that "assembles" excavators built in Japan! Lot of commonality of manufacturing there right? And while I too like the idea of American labor, how can you argue with the synergisms of using the less than utilized resources of Navistar's Escobedo Mexico Plant. They lost the Ford 650/750 volume, this should have fit Navistar like a glove. I always say, you could paint a pile of dog poop "Cat Yellow" and guys would stand around and say.."isn't that the nicest pile of dog p[oop you have ever seen?" Plain and simple it seems to me that Cat thinks they are going to capitalize on that brand loyalty factor to carry the day for them as they get into the HD truck business. Even though I think it is safe to say after 3 years of trying to crack the market, the only thing it seems to me they have created is a bad taste for the Cat truck brand. And as far as the loyalty factor, do they think it is going to be easy to break the loyalty factor the industry has for Mack? KW? Pete? F'liner? and yes International-ok Navistar? Those boys will not roll over and play dead. Bottom line, discarding the marketing BS I can't really see any real strong business case for this being a success. IMO, three years from now we will be reading...."after much consideration, Cat has decided to exit the on highway truck business in order to focus its energies on its core business".

Amen. What possible defense can they mount? "Well we did it based on odds of our less popular cab option being involved in such a crash". Whoever participated in this decision will not have a good performance review this year. I wonder what those mods cost in the manufacturing process. GM will be all over this like a wet blanket as they continue their "steel is stronger campaign"-while at the same time rushing to get their aluminum truck ready for market!

All of which supports Cat's position that ..."You CAN make a silk purse out of a sow's ear"!

Answered my own question- googled them and I can now say the logo is familiar. Young company, younger management team and current tractor age is under 2 years according to their website.

Celadon?? No 42?? 9000 tractors?? Ok- I give up-under what name(s) do they do business as?

that is good considering you were a teenager driving it!

As a kid growing up in Conn I remember a mail contractor had some tractors-Detroits for sure but I think they had the conventional Stude'bkr grill of the day-no exposed shutters.

Amen. I started a thread today on Blueovalnews about perhaps the wisdom of a plain jane truck-given fact news of the day is a 70,000 buck F-150. Basically every response was .."no way". Of course-what came over me! And aI do understaznd the importance of a high average transaction price- I'm a Ford stockholder. But I can't help but feel, there is a market for sure for such a vehicle. As long s there is incremental plant capacity this has to make sense-not everyone wants or can afford a Denali, King Ranch blah blah.

thx for response

I'm confused...Bumper will have a car fire/trash/dumpster fire line on it (100 feet of inch and three quarter)..where is the hose stored? Speaking of car fires, I have suggested a 19,000 lb GVW F-550 might be a good addition to our local department given number of car fires/MV accidents they respond to..(We are on an interstate exit) Was told by locals.."nah-not enough to handle a car fire" Having learned in my career what you can do with a 20 lb. Ansul (B-C) and for sure understanding a B-C is not going to put out a tire fire, what do you guys think about the smaller, quicker less costly mini pumpers???

I do believe the issue is they have been building a lot of trucks that are fully optioned in their quest for the highest possible transaction price. Just could be they are at the point that they have satisfied a lot of the demand for such vehicles and the time has come to get a bit more aggressive with the rest of the market-not everyone wants or needs a 50 grand pick up.

"Statistics 101" A course in how to lie with numbers. Interesting that 3 vehicles that are no longer built are on the "top seller" list. And 2012 Prostar is top of the sleeper list? Hmnn- I wonder if it has anything to do with how many have been dumped on the market?

Was not aware of that- So should be a reasonable conclusion that the system Navistar attempted to make work, was developed with EPA funding-or better yet complicity?? This should not be too difficult to defend- and is another example of government run wild with no consequences for their actions.

And the beat goes on.... Have to wonder if the "Info overload" provided by the internet also contributes to this in addition to the cost associated with doing a quality show. Just think, (at least IMO)-25 or 30 years ago you waited for your new copy of HDT or Diesel Equipment Superintendent, or CCJ or Fleet Owner to see what was new. Today? Forget it. You have the news the day the new product is announced-nothing like seeing it in person, but it does not have the same impact it did years ago.

For what good it will do. fire off your letters to your senators and reps. Its easy with their web sites. Absolute bullshit! I always come back to one question. IF you aren't going to build a bomb, and IF you have more oil than you need to generate electricity, and If with your oil money you can buy all the nuclear medicine you need, than WTF do you need a nuclear capability for?

And this means??? Is Navistar now out of the inhouse engine business and is outsourcing casting or do they have another???

opps-Sorry about that-hard to distinguish I guess which side of the Rio Grande we are talking about!

How true- If I were a CEO, I would have a tough time making a significant investment in a country run by outlaws. But I'm told.."no the outlaws only rule certain parts of the country"...I guess that's today?

Checked them out- 47 employees in Mich. sales office- their website does not offer an English translation. they claim to be supplying "10 US Pick ups with components" as well as mush south American HD production Must be Ford did not mention this to UAW when they bargained bringing 650/750 back to US.

With a handle like "Blackdog" they know NOT to believe you!

For sure-the same

Guys- thx for the nice comments. Last year was our first at the Fairgrounds (over 500 trucks) and we learned some lessons. Hopefully we will do a better job of getting show trucks in off Rt 117 as well as improving spectator parking. Exit 27 495, at Rt 117 Bolton. Head WEST on 117, 4.5 miles. Bob

Not completely true- probably 3 more crane operator jobs in West Coast ports, maybe a tug captain or two (those container ships take a lot of tug HP when loaded-leaving port-not so bad-most of the containers will be empty! Just think-the biggest container ship carries over 12,000 containers! That is 12,000 trailer loadsthat will not be leaving a US factory shipping dock. The world trade theory sounds good. And it is a global economy. I just can't believe though that we end up on the right end of the stick when it comes to the countries covered in this latest agreement . I have no trouble buying a Freud saw blade-made in Germany or Italy or Switzerland-fair competition from a labor perspective-its the third world shit holes that CEO's will capitalize on to get the lowest possible labor cost to satisfy the "financial analysts" IMO