Popular Post Joey Mack Posted April 4 Popular Post Share Posted April 4 The tool that you have will press the wear ring on. I put a thin coat of RTV on the leading edge of the crank. The ring will push the RTV on and seal the ring to the crank. Then use a lint free rag on a screwdriver to wipe out the excess RTV. 3 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mechohaulic Posted April 4 Popular Post Share Posted April 4 wear ring has to go on far enough for flywheel to sit on crankshaft. after the lead seal ; (yea I know = how far back that is)! was replaced by updated rubber seal/ ring combo; install tools came later. bet not many on here used the flywheel to "set" wear ring ! do what you have to . ring installer was basically a wheel seal installer modified. have also seen a rear seal leak not due to poor seal/ ring but due to someone previously using a sharp chisel to cut/ remove ring. now no matter how many rings/seals installed the oil leaks slightly due to channel groove on crank between seal/ crank. as the BMT pro 😇 has earlier stated:: small amount of RTV between ring and crank seals many imperfections. 1 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 (edited) Dumb question, is the seal the problem? I have an etech ai350 that the old seal had popped out, we replaced it, still leaked! Pulled it apart, looked closer, and it turned out the aluminum flywheel housing was cracked from starter motor (10 o'clock) to the passenger side around 3 o'clock! Edited April 4 by JoeH Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 that engine has a cast iron flywheel housing with a seperate seal housing. the flywheel housing is checked for 'run-out', and locked down, the seal housing is seperate, and the the seal is installed, older seal housings used a lead seal that was massaged in to place, I have never replaced those.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 12 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: that engine has a cast iron flywheel housing with a seperate seal housing. the flywheel housing is checked for 'run-out', and locked down, the seal housing is seperate, and the the seal is installed, older seal housings used a lead seal that was massaged in to place, I have never replaced those.. You never replaced a lead seal ???come on now. they came out after the Nino/pinta / Santa Maria .🤣. well truthfully those three had rope rear seals LMAO. even after the lead seal , it was the same basic separate housing which bolted to rear flywheel housing. have to reread JoeH text. other then it was alum;; it still should have had separate oil seal housing ??? no ?? . a crack that high up by starter area would have an external leak ?? also ::there are no such things as a dumb question. more over it's "dumber to have a question and NOT ask it; just sayin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 4 Share Posted April 4 really Mech, If I did do a rope or lead seal, Earl, was holding my hand.. He was my Mentor.. My Mack Dad.. He raised me on Mack's 23 years ago.. He is Home now, but he will never leave my heart... Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 probably wrong (again) BUT racking brain cells , engines having lead rear seal on bellhousing ALSO had a crankshaft which had a deflector made on crank just before the seal housing. the lead seal didn't have as much lube hitting it. lead seal took a few tries. a piece of lead 1/8th+ - dia . place in seal housing then with a round punch or round stock keep working lead into groove. no micrometers, measuring. Dial indicators. hold housing backwards trial / error over crankshaft. oh the good days. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 2 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: really Mech, If I did do a rope or lead seal, Earl, was holding my hand.. He was my Mentor.. My Mack Dad.. He raised me on Mack's 23 years ago.. He is Home now, but he will never leave my heart... Jojo Thankfully I also have those Mentors even today which are no longer here to physically help but they "offer assistance "in their own way. no offence but I must correct your statement. Earl WAS my mentor: Earl IS your mentor. to this very day. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 yes Mech,, you are correct.. every time I build any engine,, he is behind me , watching me, and talks to me through me, when I stop and say, that doesnt look right.. Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfritz123 Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 The engine I am working on actually has an aluminum housing with a separate cast iron seal housing. So the leak has to come from that separate seal housing as there is no contact between the crankcase oil and the bell housing I believe. As stated, you have to line up the bell housing to the crank and the seal housing to the crank. The old EM6 engine does have a cast housing and a somewhat different seal housing (maybe like an old lead seal??). I never removed the flywheel from that engine but when I peered up with the oil pan off, you can actually see the back side of the rubber seal. It also had a v-shaped profile (less material at the center) where the oil pan gasket contacted. This E6 engine you can not see the seal with the oil pan removed. We took the truck for a cruise today (even thought it has the parasitic oil leak). Initially, this engine was set to run at 1550 RPM maximum as far as I can see. I managed to get 1700 RPM out of the engine when stationary by allowing more free travel stroke on the pump lever by removing the forward limiting screw. However, it refuses to get past about 1550 RPM (governed) while doing a road test. So I gained nothing by giving the lever more stroke. I can get a top end out of this truck at about 55 MPH and 1550 RPM! We talked to a local diesel shop. They said the RPM can be adjusted with the fuel pump (Robert Bosch) in place but they said you likely can't increase it enough without changing the weights on the governor. They are not sure if they would be able to source the weights required to do that mod. It sounds like they can do this all while the fuel pump is on the engine. The engine runs good but it certainly doesn't have the power the old maxidyne EM6-285 did. Maybe it is due to the puff limiter valve being bypassed on that one and possibly the pump being set up a bit? Apparently that was easy to do on an American Bosch pump. I pulled some hills with this truck (empty) and I only saw about 700 F or so on the pyrometer. Very nice and quiet engine. I did notice the hesitation going up the hill likely caused by the puff limiter response when I stepped on it. There was a noticeable delay in the spooling but no smoke! The old gal used to respond quicker but lots of smoke and a quicker more rapid pyrometer increase as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Macktruckman Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Someone that knows more than me will be along soon and clarify but 1550 rpm does not sound right to me. My understanding was that even the “L” engines were governed at 1800? And i may get flamed but where I live Johnny law doesn’t pay attention to smoke so id ditch the puff limiter especially for field work. Im sorry your having so much trouble. I understand the frustration as ive been fighting with an N-14 all winter that’s still not right. Sometimes things seem to never want to line out. Lol. Good luck Josh. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 21 hours ago, Joey Mack said: The tool that you have will press the wear ring on. I put a thin coat of RTV on the leading edge of the crank. The ring will push the RTV on and seal the ring to the crank. Then use a lint free rag on a screwdriver to wipe out the excess RTV. Also something you can try is after you push the seal and sleave on put the flywheel up and on with two bolts and take it back off again before the sealant can set up!And check everything ! it maybe that the fly wheel is pushing the wear ring on farther that the installer is pushing it! A! also as Joey and others have mentioned Do it cold with rtv or locktite or anaerobic sealant ! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfritz123 Posted April 5 Author Share Posted April 5 Thanks for all the advice. I had checked and double checked again clearance of flywheel and wear ring distance when I had installed the wear ring and again when I took the flywheel off the second time. No contact there. I think I have a good .1 inch interface. I hole mic'd the wear ring and I am at .165 inches. I think flywheel was about .050 inches if I remember correctly. I actually used anaerobic sealer for the seal housing to block interface. It stays pliable but is resistant to oil! I used it as I mounted a dial indicator on the crank and was shifting the seal housing around to align it. I thought I was within .004 or .005 TIR. The Mack specs told me anything less than .007 was good. I will definitely push the wear ring on cold next time and with a sealant. Maybe there was damage on the crank but I certainly didn't see it. My eyes are getting a bit tired already though! Slipping on reading glasses and taking them off when I drop things out of my fingers and onto the floor! I thought I had a nice tight fit when I had put the ring on. I guess if there was a hollow spot anything can happen. I think as well I will rotate the crank with the adapter plate installed in order to seat the seal and avoid bounce back and might get an evener set. I might have been further ahead to use a teflon seal and avoid the wear ring altogether? They talk about using a guide sleeve with that type of install...... I have never put one of them on but it did say to install dry and use no lubricant. I don't follow those instructions! Isn't there always going to be oil on that interface and what you are trying to keep in the engine? How could oil or white grease hurt the install? It seems like contrarian thinking! The plate on the pump says 1725 rpm. I think my governor weights are holding it at 1550. I can get approx. 1700 when truck is stationary or in a low gear. It sure feels odd when compared to my E7s. I certainly think I will plug off the puff limiter to see the difference in response! Johnny law rarely sees this truck as it spends its life in soft fields and gravel back roads! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 15 hours ago, allfritz123 said: The engine I am working on actually has an aluminum housing with a separate cast iron seal housing. So the leak has to come from that separate seal housing as there is no contact between the crankcase oil and the bell housing I believe. As stated, you have to line up the bell housing to the crank and the seal housing to the crank. The old EM6 engine does have a cast housing and a somewhat different seal housing (maybe like an old lead seal??). I never removed the flywheel from that engine but when I peered up with the oil pan off, you can actually see the back side of the rubber seal. It also had a v-shaped profile (less material at the center) where the oil pan gasket contacted. This E6 engine you can not see the seal with the oil pan removed. We took the truck for a cruise today (even thought it has the parasitic oil leak). Initially, this engine was set to run at 1550 RPM maximum as far as I can see. I managed to get 1700 RPM out of the engine when stationary by allowing more free travel stroke on the pump lever by removing the forward limiting screw. However, it refuses to get past about 1550 RPM (governed) while doing a road test. So I gained nothing by giving the lever more stroke. I can get a top end out of this truck at about 55 MPH and 1550 RPM! We talked to a local diesel shop. They said the RPM can be adjusted with the fuel pump (Robert Bosch) in place but they said you likely can't increase it enough without changing the weights on the governor. They are not sure if they would be able to source the weights required to do that mod. It sounds like they can do this all while the fuel pump is on the engine. The engine runs good but it certainly doesn't have the power the old maxidyne EM6-285 did. Maybe it is due to the puff limiter valve being bypassed on that one and possibly the pump being set up a bit? Apparently that was easy to do on an American Bosch pump. I pulled some hills with this truck (empty) and I only saw about 700 F or so on the pyrometer. Very nice and quiet engine. I did notice the hesitation going up the hill likely caused by the puff limiter response when I stepped on it. There was a noticeable delay in the spooling but no smoke! The old gal used to respond quicker but lots of smoke and a quicker more rapid pyrometer increase as well! with such a difference in RPM's stationary VS road test; a far outer space question for me is what shape are the cab mounts ?? air ride or stationary mount ? when you got1700 rpm's did you work the pump with total linkage connected to pedal or manual pump operation using only lever on pump ?? worn linkage pedal to pump ? road test pedal not full max ?? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 See that Mech?? your oldness is good for something that is a great thought that the movement of the cab may be affecting the throttle. like on an 'R' model where the throttle rod is mounted to the firewall.. With Love.... Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 THANK YOU SIR . there are some small advantages of being older (ancient ); today's world of diagnostics seems to start at the high-tech side by passing the basics first. pump out put shaft linkage should be a spring-loaded arm. manual working arm can easily give eng more RPM's, few worn pivots can greatly affect things. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 5 Share Posted April 5 Yep,, I too have repaired poor throttle performance on some RD's due to worn linkages and the little bearings at the linkage mounts.. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mechohaulic Posted April 5 Popular Post Share Posted April 5 1 hour ago, Joey Mack said: Yep,, I too have repaired poor throttle performance on some RD's due to worn linkages and the little bearings at the linkage mounts.. I've heard Viagra helps repair "throttle performance also BUT I'm not much for taking pills. just once again proves the point as things get old ; they tend to become worn !!LMAO. 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfritz123 Posted April 7 Author Share Posted April 7 Yes, it is a spring loaded throttle linkage! Even though the linkage was wore, I made sure that the spring was compressed with the accelerator pedal and that it could be held there. The road test was done on the hi-way so it was fairly smooth. My top end was about 55 MPH with the gearing at 1550. We talked to a diesel shop and they figured a couple of hours and the RPM can be adjusted on the truck without removing the pump. Changing springs and maybe weights to increase the RPM. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 if only to have the remembrance of the " making a machine run better" WITH OUT THESE ---- computers. it can be done. cleanliness is Godlyness. yes it can be done to make a better performance without $$$. new generation has missed SO MUCH in old days when knowledge was so important. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 8 Share Posted April 8 https://photos.app.goo.gl/rVrhxnG7P6dNpJrz8 Funny you should mention it Mech. I would love to have you here to help me get this END 673 finished.. Jojo 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted April 9 Share Posted April 9 On 4/4/2024 at 7:51 PM, mechohaulic said: You never replaced a lead seal ???come on now. they came out after the Nino/pinta / Santa Maria .🤣. well truthfully those three had rope rear seals LMAO. even after the lead seal , it was the same basic separate housing which bolted to rear flywheel housing. have to reread JoeH text. other then it was alum;; it still should have had separate oil seal housing ??? no ?? . a crack that high up by starter area would have an external leak ?? also ::there are no such things as a dumb question. more over it's "dumber to have a question and NOT ask it; just sayin Cracks were both inside and outside the flywheel housing on mine IIRC. Leaks were internal I believe. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
allfritz123 Posted July 4 Author Share Posted July 4 (edited) Finally finished the project. Used "Bucky" all spring. It is working good except for missing 2 or 300 RPM on the shifts as it tops out at 1550. Will have to take that to a shop to hopefully gain it back. Miraculously the rear oil seal has stopped leaking. Unfortunately I lost my brother in the farming crime on Father's Day. He was 71 and had looked so forward to be able to driving his truck and helping me once more this spring. He fought stage 4 kidney cancer and had a kidney removed 13 years ago. One of his biggest desires was to be able to work again and not be on a downhill spiral of getting weaker and weaker. His last 6 weeks were miserable and he was never able to come back home. He will be sadly missed in our community. We had a traditional country funeral for him and buried him beside my parents. We had a "drive by" by the yard where I grew up and he lived with his wife for over 50 years. We dressed the front of the grill with a stainless diamond mesh to protect the air-air intercooler and finish the truck. We lined up a few items for this and included his '78 truck which he used when working rigs back in the day to buy a farm. My brother's son Darcy made a very nice video of pictures (many from on the farm) which were embedded into the service which was broadcast live. My dad restored the old tractor. Over 250 came to pay their last respects. https://www.gracememorial.com/obituary/Gordon-Fritzke Edited July 4 by allfritz123 1 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted July 4 Share Posted July 4 sorry to hear of the loss of Your Brother. at 73 seems time waits for no one and their hopes and goals. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mrsmackpaul Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Condolences to the family Yes time doesn't wait for anyone, gotta get out there and get it done why we can Paul 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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