Difference between Loose Valves vs. Throw-out Bearing??????????

[WalkinBackwards]

I'm sure my title attracts some smartass comments. Maybe not. I'm new on this forum and the truck industry. I depend a lot on trust right now. I've got 2 conflicting stories from 2 different people. I truly respect both people and their opinions. The Mack is a 2008 CHU.

There seems to be a really loud noise from the engine/transmission area. I was told that the loud noise was loose valves and it may have started from the camshaft? There is already a valve/camshaft kit out there for about 4,000.00 because of that ongoing issue????? The motor is a MP8.

The other valued opinion is that the valve/engine noise is perfectly okay with the engine. They all make that noise and the problem is a throw-out bearing. That's why it doesn't go away when you press the clutch or put a little bind on it. It has a T313 transmission.

Other than taking to a shop, has anyone had this type of issue?

[fjh]

This noise should not be overlooked or dismissed By any means ! depending what it sounds like  these engines had issues with the bull gear that drives the cam coming loose ! So pay close attention to it! If it is getting worse Get some help! There is the possibility its the clutch bearing however that noise should change with the use of the clutch should go away when the clutch free pedal is used up! (first inch or two of pedal push! Listen to the engine as the compressor cuts in and out! If the noise goes away when the compressor is pumping All is likely OK! Otherwise I sugest u take it to a (TRUSTED ) dealer in your area for a listen!

 

just my opinion!

[Joey Mack]

I like your 'Handle'...  Just start out simple and thoroughly inspect what you can,  "F" is right,  He has excellent approaches at troubleshooting..   Jojo

[mrsmackpaul]

3 hours ago, fjh said:

This noise should not be overlooked or dismissed By any means !

There is the possibility its the clutch bearing however that noise should change with the use of the clutch should go away when the clutch free pedal is used up! (first inch or two of pedal push!

I sugest u take it to a (TRUSTED ) dealer in your area for a listen!

 

just my opinion!

Now I dont know nothing about the type of engine you have, but my short time walking on the face of this earth tells theres a lot of common sense in the advice given above 

If it was the throw out bearing the clutch isnt adjusted right for a start, if you know nothing about these engines or about mechanical things then your advice has to be sort from reliable sources, were you find these depends on were you are, probably not facebook or the local bar 

 

Paul 

[WalkinBackwards]

I have a Mp8-425e and the Mack dealer told me I had a T313 transmission. I don't see any numbers on the transmission other than 281K35343 that tell me it's a 313. The dealer can't do anything with it for SEVERAL weeks out. I have nothing but the desire to get it to a dealer or legit shop. I just got it home 3 days ago. Spending the time to clean top to bottom. This helps me to look over every part (well not EVERY) on the truck. Hopefully it may give me the ability in some way to identify, at least, what my issue may be? Now that I have it in the driveway, I have more of an ability to look, check and learn. Nowhere on my wish list of "Shit to do" is a line item that says, "Take transmission out of a Mack and use it as an orbital instrument to strengthen fellowship and unity with fellow man as we journey to rebuild it!" My skin is respectfully tough and their is no opinion that I would not want to hear. Ultimately it is my choice to take or dismiss anyone's advice. I'm ALWAYS appreciative and thankful. Don't get on FB much and I don't drink, HOWEVER I may consider going to the local bar before it's all said and done!

18 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Now I dont know nothing about the type of engine you have, but my short time walking on the face of this earth tells theres a lot of common sense in the advice given above 

If it was the throw out bearing the clutch isnt adjusted right for a start, if you know nothing about these engines or about mechanical things then your advice has to be sort from reliable sources, were you find these depends on were you are, probably not facebook or the local bar 

 

Paul 

 

[Joey Mack]

the numbers should be stamped into the tranny housing, on the left side, in-line with the clutch arm cross shaft,  2 inches from the seam where the rear case and front case meet..  You will have to pull the tranny to fix this leak,  then you willl see if its the oil seal and /or the oil pump line/system , shown in the picture.  jojo

[Joey Mack]

I forgot to add,,  this repair can be done without taking the tranny apart,  you can re-seal it from inside the bell housing..  jojo

[WalkinBackwards]

UPDATE!!!

I can't thank you enough for the input on my truck. The reply that fjh left for me had a similar ring to it that was given to me a few days ago. I didn't realize that a friend of mine was involved in a nice size trucking company! Must be a real close friend, huh? He was nice enough to send his head tech to my shop to check it out. He has/had 12 years working at a franchise Mack dealership. After crawling around it like a spider monkey, he left me with this. The following description will NOT be properly duplicated! I'm sure anyone except myself will be able to properly connect these dots!

I was told that it was the "drive gear"????? I think that's what he called it. I did hear 100% the word "BULL GEAR." He told me I could take the valve cover off, look towards the very back. There should be a little gap that I can stick a rod down to move a gear? I there is any slack on being able to move this, then BAM, there's the problem. Next step would be to somehow check the possibility of more damage due to this. He told me I could drive it to a shop, although he didn't recommend it. I feel a little funny about checking the back part of that motor for something lose but since it doesn't have me taking off any more than the valve cover, I don't think I could mess anything up! He also told me that it was or could be about a 40-45 hour job??!!??!!

 

[Joey Mack]

you will need to remove the dog house behind the cup holders, to do that you have to remove all of the plaastic panels around the pedals, and the right kick panel and the lower steering column cover.  its not hard, just a puzzle. all the panels over lap so there is an order to it, you will see 2 black steel brackets behind the center panel, one on each side. they come out too, then you can remove the sound deadener, this will expose the doghouse cover, it is sourounded by a dozen 6mm bolts,  I have a 1/4 drive air ratchet that fits great, 10mm socket..   then you will be able to look down the back side after the valve cover is off..   it may take you 2 hours to get to that point, since you havent done one before..  good luck sir...   jojo

[fjh]

4 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

you will need to remove the dog house behind the cup holders, to do that you have to remove all of the plaastic panels around the pedals, and the right kick panel and the lower steering column cover.  its not hard, just a puzzle. all the panels over lap so there is an order to it, you will see 2 black steel brackets behind the center panel, one on each side. they come out too, then you can remove the sound deadener, this will expose the doghouse cover, it is sourounded by a dozen 6mm bolts,  I have a 1/4 drive air ratchet that fits great, 10mm socket..   then you will be able to look down the back side after the valve cover is off..   it may take you 2 hours to get to that point, since you havent done one before..  good luck sir...   jojo

Well sorry to hear this! That said the price quoted is correct! Nasty but true ! You definitely need to look into it and in my opinion  have it towed to the experienced dealer as is let them do the whole job diagnostics and all! Nothing worse than getting a job that someone else has started!

just sayin!

Edited September 3, 2022 by fjh

[mrsmackpaul]

Well to me it is good news, you have had someone confirm pretty much what a lot of people here have suggested, it isnt the throw out bearing and if I was in your shoes with very limited mechanical knowledge then I would consider finding myself a trusted mechanic and take it there

That been me I wouldn't do that because I fix everything myself even if I dont know what Im doing I make it my business to learn, this way I am a lot more in control of my own destiny 

 

Good luck and keep us updated 

 

Paul 

[Joey Mack]

A good diagnosis, is always a good thing.  whether it's our trucks or our bodies...   take it to the Mack Doctor..   replace the clutch at that time too,   You came to the right place for advice...   Jojo

[fjh]

2 hours ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Well to me it is good news, you have had someone confirm pretty much what a lot of people here have suggested, it isnt the throw out bearing and if I was in your shoes with very limited mechanical knowledge then I would consider finding myself a trusted mechanic and take it there

That been me I wouldn't do that because I fix everything myself even if I dont know what Im doing I make it my business to learn, this way I am a lot more in control of my own destiny 

 

Good luck and keep us updated 

 

Paul 

Paul ,I am much like you in thought process ! How ever in this particular instance there are a fare few specialty tools involved! your and my way is not really a good way !The Volvo turds designed this engine around specialty tools so you have to take it back to them !Its expensive to buy the tools Dealers HAVE to HAVE these to be a dealer and Its totally labor intensive and that's  WHY the dealers have to charge up the ass to do it! Its so expensive to do because they made it that way! ON purpose .Its all about the money! they hope to sell you a new truck ! Instead of the repair! Also the Clutch is a good IDEA As Joe said!  your already there! the whole shmeer has to come out to accomplish this feat!

Just my take on these guys!

I don't like it how ever that's the way things have gone !

And its not only VOLVO/Mack!

Edited September 3, 2022 by fjh

[Joey Mack]

"F" Nailed it!!! I worked on these MackVo turds for about 5 years, after doing all that i did on E-Tech's and E-7's....  and a little bit on E-6's,,  (REAL MACK engines for that era) ...  Yes,  You have to be "Spot-on" repairing those engine's,(Volvo's) which requires a high level of inteligence,  however, we are driving trucks to haul frieght,  not going into outer space....... good luck to you, and i'm sorry that you have to pay the Swede's,  for this repair....   jojo

Edited September 3, 2022 by Joey Mack
more content needed

[fjh]

intelligence is only part of the equation Joe!

The tooling is important as well and you need to have your fucking notebook computer right beside you and follow ALL the DOEHEAD ideas put forth in the instructions cause it will likely f up if you don't ! Remember it's not just a simple diesel Engine any more its a Gong show! 

Sorry having a negative day today! 😡

[theakerstwo]

Years ago i had a two valve engine that had noise in the rear top side.I had the rockers off a few times and check for a bad shaft and set the cross head and valves and could not get the noise out.It would come and go at idle and sound like loose valve adjustment.The last thing i did to it was pull the push tubes out for maybe the second time and i moved them to different location and the ticking sound went away.

[Joey Mack]

sounds to me Glenn,  you did some Mechanic work....  just saying...   now a day's,,   you have to have a degree in this crap, instead of just going in and fixing it...   jojo

[theakerstwo]

I was a mechanice for 39 years but before i got out of it i became a Tech.I never did get used to that term.I just remembered a two valve engine also that was making a tapping nose on the top side and as soon as i pulled the front valve cover i knew what it was.The valve spring had carbon built up on the inside and all around inside.I pulled the head and found the valve guide was worn so bad that the exhaust valve had wore a slot down the side of the liner as for as the valve was moving.

[Joey Mack]

I would love to have a 1/4 of youre knowledge...    jojo

[mowerman]

Not sure if this is anything that will help you since you can’t figure out what it is I thought I would run this across you a few weeks ago on my Kenworth there was a dust collar around the driveline  yolk that had come loose and it was rattling they had to weld it back on to a rear end Took us all a little while to figure out what the racket was best of luck I really don’t have any suggestions clearly you’re stuck between a rock and a hard place…. Bob

[fjh]

Well we can hope for is a good out come on this! If it is indeed a loose bull gear it can get real pricey and a deep hole to dig out of ! Alongside all the other crap that can go wrong with this newer stuff! The only saving grace is it has no def system!

Edited September 5, 2022 by fjh

[WalkinBackwards]

HERE WE GO!! I had it trailered to a certified shop. I was told that he didn't do Macks BUT upon looking it over, he gave the final diagnosis.....

It's the rear gear train that's making all the noise and the gears are eat up. I don't know if those metal shavings have access to the internal part of the engine? And the compressor motor won't come out! With the motor having 400k on it, is that the time to do an overhaul or is that an entirely different animal?

[fjh]

22 hours ago, WalkinBackwards said:

HERE WE GO!! I had it trailered to a certified shop. I was told that he didn't do Macks BUT upon looking it over, he gave the final diagnosis.....

It's the rear gear train that's making all the noise and the gears are eat up. I don't know if those metal shavings have access to the internal part of the engine? And the compressor motor won't come out! With the motor having 400k on it, is that the time to do an overhaul or is that an entirely different animal?

That local Bar is sounding pretty possible here! Worst Case scenario news Bro . Sorry man!

No  the overhaul will be more than the truck is worth in my opinion  Its bad enough you have what you have! That job there DEPENING on the damage is going to be 30 40  grand a big hole to dig out of Don't add insult to injury! unfortunately all the fuzz and contaminates can fall into the pan! price a reman engine and weigh the two off!  30 40 grand vs reman short block or long block! this way you have I believe 2 year  a warranty on the whole shmeer!! and less down time! And don't forget you will likely be buying a compressor drive gear and clutch ect! This way your adding value to the truck as well! if you decide to flog it! It Will have value if the warranty is transferable!

Again My opinion! 

 

[fjh]

On 10/5/2022 at 11:03 AM, WalkinBackwards said:

HERE WE GO!! I had it trailered to a certified shop. I was told that he didn't do Macks BUT upon looking it over, he gave the final diagnosis.....

It's the rear gear train that's making all the noise and the gears are eat up. I don't know if those metal shavings have access to the internal part of the engine? And the compressor motor won't come out! With the motor having 400k on it, is that the time to do an overhaul or is that an entirely different animal?

So Bro ! Its been a month!  I and maybe others are curious as to which direction you took if any on this repair if any ? This kind of info can be helpful to others who find them selves in your situation! This here was a semi common issue a one point which I believe has been addressed on the newer engines! That said maybe  take time post the direction you took if any to this repair to assist others in this same scenario . 

[WalkinBackwards]

FJH. Now is that time of which you speak! Gather round all ye curious souls. Tis I who can lay down the demise (or solution) of the broken Walking Backwards! As Willie gifted us in 1967, "The Party Is Over," I will end this thread with the same vision! I have not only uploaded Willie Nelson's video (please enjoy and I hope I don't get fussed at) but I have also uploaded my entire service ticket below. I refer to that as "pulling my dress up" and typically don't like doing that. As FJH properly suggested, maybe my internal and monetary "wake of death and destruction" may help another on this forum.  Whether it was the right/wrong, better/worst or expensive/economical decision, A DECISION WAS  MADE! And that, my friends, was the true problem; MAKING A DECISION. At the end of the day that is the gift that this site offers to us all. This is a platform that collects an unbelievable amount of great people with good advice and a sincere want to help others. It's just too bad this platform (site) isn't what we walk out of our doors to mix with anymore! I appreciate every person that has taken the time to give me ideas, advice or just a straight up smartass comment! Merry Christmas! A sincere thanks to all and to all a good night!

Edited December 15, 2022 by WalkinBackwards
used wrong persons name!