Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 so 12k miles ago i just had a cam all new lifters new up rollers and a couple up's and new rocker assembly and oil pump installed in my truck. now on Thursday i was southbound out of Canada loaded and broke a locating stud for a valve bridge. called the dealer that did the work. rightfully so they would not agree to any warranty without first getting it towed to a mack dealer, closest mack dealer being in brandon mb. 1000 dollar cnd tow bill later my truck got to mack yesterday afternoon they got the truck apart but have yet to tell me a cause, they also tell me that the stud is broke off deep in the head and will likely require replacement of the head as they will have no way to get the stud out. i sure hope mack makes this right because i didn't spend over 13k dollars having the valve train redone to have a valve train failure in 12k miles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I feel your pain and frustration, particularly just after that substantial investment. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 If it is the 2000, they are talking about breaking the centering stud for the yoke bridge. They set the bridge adjustment wrong during the cam repair or it was fatigued by the cam failure and now just gave up the ghost or it's just plain worn out from 17 years of hard labor. Mack has a procedure for removing those. It was an issue. Find out what cylinder had the cam failure vs what cylinder lost the centering stud. You need to know that fact if the hair starts flying. If the cam failure did not occur on the same cylinder that lost the stud you have a point to make. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 8 hours ago, Mack Technician said: If it is the 2000 they are talking about breaking the centering stud for the yoke bridge. They set the bridge adjustment wrong during the cam repair or it was fatigued by the cam failure and now just gave up the ghost or it's just plan worn out from 17 years of hard labor. Mack has a procedure for removing those. It was an issue. Find out what cylinder had the cam failure vs what cylinder lost the centering stud. You need to know that fact if the hair starts flying. If the cam failure did not occur on the same cylinder that lost the stud you have a point to make. Also you may have entered a Vicious circle here if this failure has again taken out yet another lifter or fractured it to fail a month or two from after were up and running again! Catch 22! in both cases! The Question posed by Mack Tech is only a weak at best argument !How were they to see a fractured yoke pin would you have been willing to replace a head that MAY or May not be compromised ? Like Kevin said I feel your pain Hopefully They will come to the party for sum of it anyway! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 6 minutes ago, fjh said: Also you may have entered a Vicious circle here if this failure has again taken out yet another lifter or fractured it to fail a month or two from after were up and running again! Catch 22! in both cases! The Question posed by Mack Tech is only a weak at best argument !How were they to see a fractured yoke pin would you have been willing to replace a head that MAY or May not be compromised ? Like Kevin said I feel your pain Hopefully They will come to the party for sum of it anyway! They wouldn't have seen a fractured pin, you can't diagnose it particularly since it broke sub-deck. The bridge would have been set uneven causing the break after last adjustment. Metal, like a leaf spring, will bend indefinitely and without a predicted service life till ~pop~. A well adjusted bridge won't side load a centering pin. Center pins typically die as the result of outside influence. Good Luck EZ rider. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 truck has 280k miles on re-mack heads done on during a in frame at a different mack dealer about 4 years ago. cam failed on 3 u-p rolllers not on the valve lifters. here is the story that the mack dealer i am at wrote up, check for noise in engine. remove air filter and remove valve covers found #2 exaust valve bridge laying beside valves. remove jake and rocker assemby. found guide pin for exhast bridge broken off. checked all eahaust jake pins in exaust bridges found all pins worn out. recomending that oil pan be removed to check #2 ehaust lifter roller. recommend replacing all ehaust guide pins on rear cyl head. front cylinder head needs to be replaced as guide pin is broken off too deep in the cylinder head. all jake pins require replacement as well this information has been e-mailed to the dealer that did the cam job and awaiting a call back from them. im not really sure how this will play out, they think the worn jake pins are what side loaded the bridge pins. but i was not advised of worn jake pins during the original repair nor did i decline any part they recommended to be replaced. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 as far as the valve adjustment that was last done when the repair was made at mack. to make this situation even more enjoyable, i just found out its a holiday weekend this weekend, would take a miricle to be back on the road today. and apparently Monday is a Canadian holiday. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 NOT Too much hope for that ! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 well im not going to accept no for an answer they had that all apart if they failed to properly inspect and advise me of repair that is still there liability as far a i am concerned, still have not heard anything back. the parts were off and in there hands, i am potentially inuring far greater expense than had i been advised at that time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Page 6 and 7 of this service Bulletin . Any time Im doing a valve adjustment on a ETECH style engine with Jakes, I always pull the actuating pins and inspect and or replace. If they are not the new silver ones I always replace them or if they show any wear. However it would be hard to tell if any of the yoke pins were bent or cracked. We usually have good luck in drilling , tapping and slid hammering the broken pins out. Its been years since we have had any failures like that here. All I see are red motors any more 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Jake pins.pdf Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blackdog2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 If you have one or two trucks you dont have a chance buy 25-30 trucks a year then they listen been there done it delt with service mngr since mid 70s when he used to sweep floors at wtby mack they wait till the warranty run out then give you the bill . Quote Ed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mack Technician Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 We also worked to get rid of all non-Armoloy pins whenever we invaded a valve cover. Trained up to flip and check. I recall them having a frosted, non-reflective silver coat. It's easy to flap jaw when I'm not the one working on your engine, but our group never condemned a single head for a break off. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 I suggest you call Volvo Group's Mack brand customer satisfaction hotline (U.S. and Canada) at +1 (866) 298-6586 and start working this problem from that angle as well. It makes a huge difference when dealers know that Greensboro is following this. Are either of these dealers "uptime" certified by Volvo? .................http://fleetowner.com/maintenance/mack-reaches-100th-certified-uptime-center 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fullfuel01 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 just a quick idea without real thinking to back my statement. can you just put a pinless bridge like earlier etech have and get going? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 55 minutes ago, blackdog2 said: If you have one or two trucks you dont have a chance buy 25-30 trucks a year then they listen been there done it delt with service mngr since mid 70s when he used to sweep floors at wtby mack they wait till the warranty run out then give you the bill . they would have to be sweeping the floors for 10 months. this work was done less than 2 months ago. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 11 minutes ago, fullfuel01 said: just a quick idea without real thinking to back my statement. can you just put a pinless bridge like earlier etech have and get going? i may be wrong on this too but with the Jake brake using a bump in the exhaust lobe rather than a dedicated jake lobe and the spring loaded push rod I'm not thinking a pin less would work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 Volvo wants to be at the center of your world and be the only person to touch your truck. With that theme in mind, when the original Mack brand dealer was doing the work, installing thousands of dollars of genuine Volvo parts, did you go against any of their recommendations? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 32 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said: I suggest you call Volvo Group's Mack brand customersatisfaction hotline (U.S. and Canada) at +1 (866) 298-6586 and start working this problem from that angle as well. It makes a huge difference when dealers know that Greensboro is following this. Are either of these dealers "uptime" certified by Volvo? .................http://fleetowner.com/maintenance/mack-reaches-100th-certified-uptime-center looks like according to the the map neither are certified uptime dealers, defiantly thank you for the mack brand customer satisfaction hotline. at the end of the day today i still have no answer nor have they even called me, being Friday both locations are closed Sat and Sunday mack at home is open Monday but it is apparently a holiday in Canada Monday so they will be closed here Monday. at the end of the day today i called mack at home that did the work and asked if they had any news yet and the service manager said all the information was "upstairs" and they have not come back with an answer yet. the mack dealer here told me that they requested some pictures and measurements of some things. maybe i will hear something Monday? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 4, 2017 Author Share Posted August 4, 2017 Just now, kscarbel2 said: Volvo wants to be at the center of your world and be the only person to touch your truck. With that theme in mind, when the original Mack brand dealer was doing the work, installing thousands of dollars of genuine Volvo parts, did you go against any of their recommendations? no i did not. i authorized every single item they asked me about, also they had said i had a couple bad rockers they could replace the bad rockers i opted to go for complete assembly's i also told them seems how the oil pan was off i wanted a new oil pump installed. a few of the u-p rollers were shot as it was the up lobes that failed i told them i didn't want just the bad ones replaced i wanted them all replaced. they also said the ceramic lifters are ok to re-use and i told them i cant see putting old lifters on a new cam. so not only did i replace everything they recommended i authorized more than they recommended. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 2 minutes ago, Ezrider said: looks like according to the the map neither are certified uptime dealers, defiantly thank you for the mack brand customer satisfaction hotline. at the end of the day today i still have no answer nor have they even called me, being Friday both locations are closed Sat and Sunday mack at home is open Monday but it is apparently a holiday in Canada Monday so they will be closed here Monday. at the end of the day today i called mack at home that did the work and asked if they had any news yet and the service manager said all the information was "upstairs" and they have not come back with an answer yet. the mack dealer here told me that they requested some pictures and measurements of some things. maybe i will hear something Monday? Unlike the warranty system of the former Mack Trucks, Volvo warranty processing is painfully slow. You're not alone, the dealers hate it as much as you. There's been large scale resistance to the "uptime" scheme, in as much as Volvo has frustrated the Mack brand dealer network in so many ways. Volvo wants and wants, but fails to give (With the former Mack Trucks, it was a 2-way street). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 4, 2017 Share Posted August 4, 2017 4 minutes ago, Ezrider said: no i did not. i authorized every single item they asked me about, also they had said i had a couple bad rockers they could replace the bad rockers i opted to go for complete assembly's i also told them seems how the oil pan was off i wanted a new oil pump installed. a few of the u-p rollers were shot as it was the up lobes that failed i told them i didn't want just the bad ones replaced i wanted them all replaced. they also said the ceramic lifters are ok to re-use and i told them i cant see putting old lifters on a new cam. so not only did i replace everything they recommended i authorized more than they recommended. So you clearly had this Mack brand dealer exceed their minimal recommendations by a substantial amount. Your thought process as described is to be commended, and huge ammunition for your case when speaking with Mack Customer Satisfaction in Greensboro. Put it all down on paper before you call them. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 When I had this work done, I had it done with the intention of being thorough and complete, to not have any issues for a long time. The truck today has 1,185k miles on it, was 1,17x,xxx on it when this work was done. The engine had an inframe at 94x,000, done at a different Mack dealer shortly before I purchased the truck about 3 years ago. I think I purchased it with about 97x,xxx on the clock. My intention was to do everything and I should not have to worry about anything for at least 300k miles or more. But here I am with 4 weeks of work on the truck after the repair broke down. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted August 5, 2017 Share Posted August 5, 2017 If I had bought a clean 2000 year Mack, at the first sign of engine trouble, not knowing the truck's history in any detail, I would have had a dealer install a complete Mack factory remanufactured engine if I intended to work the truck day-to-day long-term. While such a strategy can easily be argued against when it comes to costs and profits, the Mack warranty on their remanufactured engines (2-years / unlimited miles), and the fact that it was Mack brand dealer installed, would provide me with "peace of mind" from coast-to-coast. In fact, I would have gone with the optional 3 year/350,000 mile warranty, available when the reman engine is installed by a Mack brand dealer. https://www.macktrucks.com/~/media/files/remack_hotsheet_basic_engine_new_format.ashx 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ezrider Posted August 5, 2017 Author Share Posted August 5, 2017 this truck was purchased from someone i knew he had all repair records for his ownership some from before, well documented in-frame rebuild done at a mack dealer roughly 1 year and 50-60k miles before i bought the truck, witch was basically pistons liners cut counter bores (drooped a liner was the reason for the in frame) rods and mains and re-mack heads 6 new injectors and a few other ods and ends. had it not been for this recent inframe though i likely would have chose a 3/4 replacement engine+ new turbo and injectors for a 3 year guarantee when the it ate the camshaft, it wouldn't have been a ton more money than what i paid for the cam job. i think my cam job all said and done everything replaced + new windsheilds came out to a parts list just shy of 10k and total invoice just shy of 14k i think the 3/4 replacement engine was pretty close to that price so the additional money i would have spent would be cost of the injectors and turbo and labor but from what i could see with the engine as apart as it was everything still looked great. i figured if i replaced everything in the valve train i would have a better engine as you cant tell me they don't reuse any parts on there re-mack engines. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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