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Mack AI 460 AI427 AMI low torque low horsepower poor fuel mileage granite , dead dog , remediation

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Ahhhh, sweet nostalgia..... I still remember my first 237 experience.  In the Impala, Mom and Dad both chain smoking, behind a DM with it's warranty tamperproof screws missing from the puff limiter.

 

 

594d6e4e09738_MackSmokeScreen.png.3f67b96e5a4980d7def2902aff5843bc.png

 

2 hours ago, Freightrain said:

Looks like my ol 237.............:P

 

 

Edited by Mack Technician
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Yup, lots of R models around our town growing up.  I still remember the weed burner exhaust bellowing black so you could hardly see the street as they took off from a stop.  Now it is just the boys in their pickups playing that game.

 

My 237 came from a firetruck, no puff limiter on it. :D  The turbo still has the tag that says "Muffling device".

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In case you don't have an OEM ream Otis makes a brush for cleaning M4 and M16 that fits the injector shadow well.

I did bend the bristles as far forward as possible to try to get some shoulder strike, otherwise they do nothing to clean the fire ring receiver.  You can't get the ramrod into #6 hole, so you have to cut it or punt.

 

594d77f4b03ef_M16cleanerbrush.thumb.jpg.867b46791664f6197667c82db13fbfef.jpg

 

594d794a8f134_m162cleanerbrush.thumb.jpg.203de2cf10f64fab8a95f13b9d5fc1a4.jpg

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Did Grand Rock assign part numbers that others could use to put the 5 inch on other AI applications? And what does CCRS stand for?

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On ‎6‎/‎28‎/‎2017 at 9:41 PM, Bigjohn4300 said:

Did Grand Rock assign part numbers that others could use to put the 5 inch on other AI applications? And what does CCRS stand for?

I contacted my Mack Dealership two days ago and they took the baton on following up with Joshua Stewart@ Rock. No word back yet on production cost or availability.

This is a single stack, Granite, exhaust system. I did not request anything relating to a dual Granite exhaust or other Mack vocational chassis (LE/MR/Etc.). I see no reason you could not make that request, they seem willing to take custom requests?   

See attached for CCRS..

CCRS explaination.pdf

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On ‎6‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 9:48 PM, nelm1994 said:

Well its good to see you back. I was starting to think we were getting censored by some greeney  . What year truck was the exhaust manifold  from and what model.

Nelm, could you please give me all information on the Tuner your running on your AI460? Any before and after interpretations?  

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The fruits of our labor has been a very stable, calm, non-metallic, idle. When you work up the RPM's on the unloaded engine it is still very E-Tech, but as nice and silky as a PLN at idle. It doesn't disrupt the water tension line on my glass.

 

HDV_0165.MP4

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On ‎6‎/‎30‎/‎2017 at 10:50 PM, nelm1994 said:

Check out a post from   mackncheese   Nov 2015  he's got a Granite with an ai 460 . He had  Antrim change the turbo, bigger injectors and area diesel tuner. Antrim dynode it before and after. I think it was 490 hp to the ground after mods. I tried to copy the post and repost it here but couldn't get it to work.

Mack Module.pdf

I did a paste over of the Mackncheese post you mentioned, nice find Nelm......... 

Finally got my new to me Mack dump on the road after having Antrim spice it up. Thought some you fellow rednecks would be interested in what was done and the outcome. Bought an 05 granite with a 460 and an 18sp with 4.35 rears. Felt sluggish when I drove it to Antrim. They dynoed it before modifications and it made 278 hp at the rear wheels. Ended up three of the unit pump (???) injectors were bad. Put in some modified injectors, Detroit series 60 turbo, and area diesel module and it made 467 hp at the rear wheels, 497 with fan off. It now pulls good and is fun to drive. Need to keep an eye on the pyro temps. Makes consistent 34 lbs of boost in upper gears, even empty. Now I don't want to drive my 99 RD with 400 hp and dreaded 7 speed. Also truck has inter axle lock and it has already got me out of 1 jamb that my RD with power divider would have gotten stuck with. Antrim is slow but they are honest and deliver what they say.

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When you have your manifold pulled it is a good idea to check the condition of your EUP’s(and reseal them). If you have a broken spring on an EUP your on the way to a Camshaft replacement. A single break will keep you in contact with the camshaft and the engine will run fine, but when the second spring break arrives your camshaft will be hash. The good news is you could install a Pre-AI CCRS camshaft and be rid of the bump.

As the EUP spring parts pile up in the cup they also start to eat the EUP engine bore by hanging the spring over the side of the follower.

I pulled, inspected and resealed a few of ours, but stopped when I ran into some wire screws that were certainly going to snap off. Road Salt country!

This is a double EUP break I pulled out of a Swedish built 2011 Liehberr D936 last May. It took out the follower, camshaft and damaged the block (not a block fatality though). It lost the cylinder and started a  metallic hammer at point of roller unloading from the Cam. 15,000 hours on engine. Two of the EUP's had spring breaks.  

59662dc365205_EUPSpring.thumb.jpg.e21cf194c71ce022d450cd8712aa96ca.jpg

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There is an option "X" that we are not going to try on this truck right now. If we are not completely satisfied I'm going to present the option to my buddy.

When I left the Mack Dealership for heavy off-road wood hauling equip in 2010 it was a decade reset in tiers. Liehberr has used Bosch E. Unit Pumps till 2014. All with cam bumps similar to Mack minus all engine brake options. All with low hole torque issues. Governing is logical on the machines and keeps the RPM at a constant through priority logic to the variable pumps.  The only real issue is Wisconsin weather. In -0 winter weather the pump groups require good low RPM torque at start up to spin through the synthetic maple syrup moving through pumps.

The lead mechanic at American State Equipment prompted me to Flash everything with updated cold weather start software and de-tune the exhaust valves. They have a new wider spec for exhaust valve set that will lash gap to zero at the top of the exhaust bump, stopping the intake exhaust scavenge. The engine does not have spring loaded exhaust push tubes, but also has no exhaust brake cut and has a relatively little bump. According to Am State de-tunes have caused no engine damage to date. I never de-tuned our machines, but I have contemplated the Loggin Dog.

If I de-tune the AI460, we will do it with the engine hot and lash the exhaust to -0-" or maybe 0.002" at top center of bump. I'd be able to cool the engine and establish a new wider standard setting by checking gap at normal rotation set point and also decide if we are getting too close to end of spring loaded push tube stroke.

 

Missing my Mack camshaft removal shoe.....:(. Had to build our "Swiss magic zero-gravity wand" since the Germans are certain their cams never fail and there is no call for specialty tools.

596630979ffea_Camwand.thumb.jpg.70ef8caa1b4814e5d835e35a22ffb56b.jpg

 

 

 

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I'd like to see more pics of your cam tool. We use the shoe and man handel it in. Back in 2000 through 2002 I was doing 3 ETECH cam jobs a week for weeks at a time , only to redo some as new updated parts came out. Wish I had that energy now! 

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1 hour ago, Mackpro said:

I'd like to see more pics of your cam tool. We use the shoe and man handel it in. Back in 2000 through 2002 I was doing 3 ETECH cam jobs a week for weeks at a time , only to redo some as new updated parts came out. Wish I had that energy now! 

Three sticks sounds like a loooooooooong week......

Sorry man, it would not work on the E7 build since you have a sweat fit cam gear and no bolts. If I'm recalling back accurately the MP7,8,10 and Volvo D13E are top-loaded camshafts, capped, for overhead removal? 

It really was fun and easy to install with this thing. I wanted to pull it back out and put it in again but it seemed wreckless. As I get older I can lengthen the beam ;).  

P7120193.thumb.JPG.dcc6a1dee82d3497f60d81155fd11418.JPGP7120192.thumb.JPG.76d3400f98a9b0cc6f2f8c1c37f597f4.JPG

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1 hour ago, Mack Technician said:

Three sticks sounds like a loooooooooong week......

Sorry man, it would not work on the E7 build since you have a sweat fit cam gear and no bolts. If I'm recalling back accurately the MP7,8,10 and Volvo D13E are top-loaded camshafts, capped, for overhead removal? 

It really was fun and easy to install with this thing. I wanted to pull it back out and put it in again but it seemed wreckless. As I get older I can lengthen the beam ;).  

P7120193.thumb.JPG.dcc6a1dee82d3497f60d81155fd11418.JPGP7120192.thumb.JPG.76d3400f98a9b0cc6f2f8c1c37f597f4.JPG

Yep,  you heated the ETECH cam gear in a oven and dropped it on the key wayed cam shaft. Camshafts in the MP motors just lift off the top. I like thoses because you don't have to remove the hood. 

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Thanks for the CCRS schooling! Has any issues been noted when using a non-AI exhaust manifold without the 460-high heat center section on a motor with tune, injectors and turbo? And I caught something rereading the whole post this time, I've been having an intermittent low power issue where I get low boost, low power, then suddenly, like a switch is flipped, engine pitch changes, turbo spools and the missing power is back, like what was being described as pinched fuel line in the post, sounds like a software update may be needed

Edited by Bigjohn4300
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On 7/13/2017 at 10:00 PM, Bigjohn4300 said:

Thanks for the CCRS schooling! Has any issues been noted when using a non-AI exhaust manifold without the 460-high heat center section on a motor with tune, injectors and turbo? And I caught something rereading the whole post this time, I've been having an intermittent low power issue where I get low boost, low power, then suddenly, like a switch is flipped, engine pitch changes, turbo spools and the missing power is back, like what was being described as pinched fuel line in the post, sounds like a software update may be needed

A. I have another brief theory of operation CCRS for you I have not added, but will.

B. I attached the S.Bulletin so folks know what your talking about. My swap is not a high temp center, it is off a 2002 427 CCRS engine, but we have not broke over 900 degrees pyro. If our manifold cracks we will buy a hot application center section. AI drops combustion temps to lower NOx and I suspect as we manipulate back pressure (Me), manipulate fuel delivery & turbo (mackncheese & Nelm) or change over to a pre-AI CCRS camshaft we will have an answer if stock manifolds hold up.   

C. Let Mackpro save you some $$$ and time. Great to have a guy who still has an active log-in.

 

High Temp Manifold.pdf

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Bigjohn4300, here's your thumb for the tip of the week....:thumb:.

104GC5165M (or 21090730) High Temp Center = $179.98 from Mack / $169.45 from PAI. Fairly cheap insurance if your going fight a battle with exhaust temps(at any HP rating). 

My PAI dealer is usually 30% cheaper. Sherry said this part is a Mack OEM re-bagged to PAI. She offered to go down in the price, but I asked not to since I was window shopping and we need to save our "favor chips" for big battles.  

 

 

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Mackpro, my last 6 is 010433 on a 04 cv713, and thanks a million ahead of time!

MackTechnician, im going to try to get a rock 5 inch exhaust with a pyro port, can i consider 900 degrees a safety point not  to exceed??

 

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12 hours ago, Bigjohn4300 said:

Mackpro, my last 6 is 010433 on a 04 cv713, and thanks a million ahead of time!

MackTechnician, im going to try to get a rock 5 inch exhaust with a pyro port, can i consider 900 degrees a safety point not  to exceed??

 

Another :thumb:.....Me or my parts guy are calling or emailing Josh at Rock every seven days. In his defense I believe he is a busy guy, but our exhaust is in rough shape. Please feel free to use the Rock contact info at the beginning of this post to kindly let him know your also in need of a 5" system and a back log is growing. CV Cyber-convoy's rollin!!

Pyro on our CV red lines at 1,200.         Might make staying below four digits a goal? 5 minutes stabilize time before shutdown. NELM  may have better input since he's dealing with high ex. 

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4 hours ago, Bigjohn4300 said:

Mackpro, my last 6 is 010433 on a 04 cv713, and thanks a million ahead of time!

MackTechnician, im going to try to get a rock 5 inch exhaust with a pyro port, can i consider 900 degrees a safety point not  to exceed??

 

Your vehicle ECM is at Step 9B, you need the Step 12B installed , and there is updates for the engine ECM as well. This will help with throttle response. It shows you have a AI300A with a Allison trans

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Yup that would be her! I like the ole gal, tough as nails, but when she is tagging the excavator, she is around 81k, could use a bit more umph, but when she is at 81, and not pulling, it's dangerous because it's unpredictable, you may pull out and be fine, or you may pull out with maybe 100 hp and that seat pucker factor comes into play

image.jpg

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10 hours ago, Bigjohn4300 said:

Yup that would be her! I like the ole gal, tough as nails, but when she is tagging the excavator, she is around 81k, could use a bit more umph, but when she is at 81, and not pulling, it's dangerous because it's unpredictable, you may pull out and be fine, or you may pull out with maybe 100 hp and that seat pucker factor comes into play

image.jpg

Monday I'll get my charts out and see if a HP software upgrade is available without changing any hard parts. Sometimes you can go to a 350 with just software 

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