Badih1206 Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 I know this board is for trucks but maybe someone has advice. I have a summit dump trailer, 70s vintage, with Dayton wheels. The old trailer works around 50,000 miles a year, usually with limited problems, but lately I've had those Dayton wheels giving me fits.for the 3rd time in a panic stop situation, with an extremely large load on, it ha spun a set of wheels and wiped out both valve stems. I can't tell you how agrivating this is when it happens. Last week in the 90 degree heat trying to jack up a trailer with close to 35 ton on it (oops did I say that, I meant a 23 ton legal load) I jacked a 6x6 right through the blacktop in a parking lot. Anyway, everything looks ok on these Dayton's their wedges are not bottomed out, so why do they do it? I've put an inch impact on them and then a 6 foot cheater pipe, they're tight. Any words of wisdom? I'm ready to trade it off because of this. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted July 27, 2013 Share Posted July 27, 2013 We have a 1970 Fruehauf that had original hubs and after 43 years it was starting to give some problems so we put new bud hubs and have no problems. This traiker also ran across the state and had a few heavy loads on it 1 Quote Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 Yep last week when it did it I like to never got the inside rim off because it was stuck on the safety bumps. I'm going to price hubs to change it Monday. I hate to trade it it has a brand new liner in the bed and outside of these episodes, is not a maintenance problem. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
thomastractorsvc Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I agree check/change the clamps or get budd hubs, should not be to expensive. Here in the KC area I can get cut off axels with may pop buds for $500-$600 all day long and CL sometimes have them for less. Quote Robert"I reject your reality and substitute my own." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mowerman Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 try not overloading the shit outa it.... wow theres a no brainer...bob Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 If anyone knows of a place where I could buy trailer cutoffs in the Dayton, Cincinnati, Columbus area I love to know I've looked with no success. I'd like to find an air ride and put under the ol trailer the neway spring beam it has, I've been told, is getting difficult to find parts for. A Hendrickson turner ht setup would be just the ticket. Aw come on mowerman, when I started pullin a gravel bucket back in 93 we hauled 40 ton all day long lol. Just too many counties in this area with portable scales for revenue enhancement to do that now. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
other dog Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I don't know why they'd slip if they're that tight and the wedge clamps aren't bottomed out, but i'd try new clamps and wheel spacers first. Usually the spacer is worn out when the clamps bottom out, but since they're not bottomed out, it's a mystery! I've seen lots of wheels that had a little piece of flat bar welded on each side of the valve stem hole for bigger-better safety stops too. Quote Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Sounds to me like the hubs are worn out, saw a similar issue a few years ago on a dump truck. After we did some measuring and compared a new spider to the old they were toast. You could tighten em all you wanted but the hub was so worn out the clamp load was uneven so they wouldn't stay put. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 I'm thinking bout puttin the flat bar on there. I've had 2 different wheels do this. The 1 that did it the other day has done it twice. New spacer and wedges after the first time. I've painted marks on all of them and caught 1 slipping before it could do damage. It's just a very agrivating thing to have happen and can get costly if not close to home and have to call a service truck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 28, 2013 Author Share Posted July 28, 2013 84 you could be right I have a heck of a time getting them to tighten down straight. I've never had this much trouble getting Dayton's not to wobble. I had a cornhusker 800 hopper trailer with Webb wheels on it and never any wobble or any trouble at all. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 That misalignment is a pretty good sign the spiders are worn out, Id swap it to budd style wheels are mentioned above, any truck and trailer junk yard should have the hubs you need. I helped a guy swap a trailer over several years ago when I worked at Howard Baer and he just bought an old storage trailer with budd wheels and we pulled the slider out from under it and swapped the hubs then scrapped everything else, it paid for the swap and from then ontire and brake jobs are so much easier, you can get aluminum wheels and drop abour 400# off your trailer weight too. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Go to your local Aurua dealer and they should be able to get you new budd hubs at a good price. They should be in stock and then you can put whatever tires on the trailer you want. Quote Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bullhusk Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Sounds to me like the hubs are worn out, saw a similar issue a few years ago on a dump truck. After we did some measuring and compared a new spider to the old they were toast. You could tighten em all you wanted but the hub was so worn out the clamp load was uneven so they wouldn't stay put.Yep I'll bet that's It went through this with a Cement tanker years back (new spacers new cleets studs nuts) it was the wheel all along! Put the hub piloted wheels on they are the better way to goBULLHUSK Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
krismoriah Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 I too was spinning rims and ripping off valve stems a few years ago. Bought new wedges, because mine were sharp and worn. The snapping of valve stems reduced but didnt disappear. I talked to a mechanic at a salvage yard about converting to hub pilot...and he told me a 'trick' and i havent had any problems since. Tighten the wedges as normal, but not paying attention to 'trueness' take a sledge hammer and bang around the rim 6 or 7 times hard, and then you will see the rim has come loose again...now tighten and pay attention to 'trueness of the wheel'. The sledgehammer method lets you tighen the wedges at least a half turn further than if u nearly tear up an impact. I have 6 trucks with daytons/spokes and have zero problems after i eliminated the sharp and worn out wedges and use the sledgehammer tightening.. I am mainly offroad with overweights common..so the extra tighening was needed.So instead of spending thousands of dollars for a conversion...spend a hundred in worn out wedges and a good sledgehammer... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TimFBsucker Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 If you do weld on the rim dismount the tire first to eliminate a wheel exploding on you.I'd go with hub pilots if it was me. There are enough out there now to be halfway reasonable . Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
masterwelder Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 Hub Pilot, you won't regret it! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LJdirtbag Posted July 28, 2013 Share Posted July 28, 2013 try new spacers. your clamps may be right but your spacers bellied and therefore narrowed and distorted Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 30, 2013 Author Share Posted July 30, 2013 $165 a piece for new hub pilot hubs with bearing races in them $80 for brake drums and $45 a piece for used hub pilot steel wheels. Sound about fair to all of you? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
miro Posted July 30, 2013 Share Posted July 30, 2013 If you're torquing them with a 1ïnch gun and then a six ft bar, you're stretching the studs. You only need 280 ft lbs of torque on a 3/4 stud 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
leversole Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 $165 a piece for new hub pilot hubs with bearing races in them $80 for brake drums and $45 a piece for used hub pilot steel wheels. Sound about fair to all of you?Where do you get them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted July 31, 2013 Author Share Posted July 31, 2013 The hubs are from Transportation Supply Depot in Vandalia ohio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted July 31, 2013 Share Posted July 31, 2013 If you're torquing them with a 1ïnch gun and then a six ft bar, you're stretching the studs. You only need 280 ft lbs of torque on a 3/4 studI was ignoring that, but yeah overtorque will stretch em and they'll never stay tight. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badih1206 Posted August 1, 2013 Author Share Posted August 1, 2013 I didn't put the cheater bar on it til they started slipping. Think I'm just gonna change it over this weekend and eliminate the issue and a few extra pounds. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rsb502 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Youll be glad you did in the end, if your going from 11R24.5's on spokes to aluminum hub piloted hubs and aluminum wheels with 11R24.5's youll drop around 300#, at least the one I helped do the swap on dropped right at 300#. Quote "Any Society that would give up a little LIBERTY to gain a little SECURITY will Deserve Neither and LOSE BOTH" -Benjamin Franklin"If your gonna be STUPID, you gotta be TOUGH" "You cant always get what you want, but if you try sometimes you get what you need" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
farmer52 Posted August 2, 2013 Share Posted August 2, 2013 Reading this thread, I can convert my spoke front wheels to disc just by replacing the hubs, brake drums, and wheels. Am I correct? Quote Ken PRR Country and Charter member of the "Mack Pack" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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