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Into The Mechanicals:


Rob
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Last evening after getting where I wanted to be with the shop workload I decided to pull the front tires on the B67. Well, all six studs unscrewed out of the spokes after the nuts jammed in the threads on the rt. wheel. Moving over to the lt. side wheel, all six nuts come off the studs alright, but four of the six studs are bent. I can't have none of this so I set up a dial indicator on the floor mounted magnetically to a 3/8ths plate and clean off all the mating surfaces the wheel butts up to to see if I have a bent spider. All runout is less than .020 so that is probably good enough. I looked for evidence of wheel slippage or spinning and can find none. Arriving at the parts store this afternoon they don't have the proper style nuts this truck takes, (convex shape) for the 5/8ths stud thread. Oh well, no real hurry cause I've got other things to do. All the wedges looked good without any bending to take note of. Now that I've got a few days before the nuts will arrive I'll get a look at the brakes and hardware. After a couple of minutes with the hand impact, and a couple busted insert bits to remove the Stemco hub windows, I call the parts house to order me two new hubcaps. Once the front hubs are off I'll have them blasted and paint them red, or black, (still undecided).

At this point and fairly disgusted, along with the front axle on jack stands, I decided to move to the rt. rear front drive axle to address a leaking hub seal. After removing the tires and spacer, really didn't have any problem getting the axle shaft freed up with a 13 pound slide hammer to pull on the perimeter between the retention studs. Grabbing my brand new 4.125" socket for the hub locknuts and 3/4" ratchet, (man it's nice to have the right tools) I remove the hardware simulating that I know what I'm doing. After grabbing one of my floor jacks to support the hub spider and drum, the assembly rolls right off the spindle, balanced well on the jack. Upon gazing into the area containing the shoes I cannot believe how much mud, grease, grime, mouse nest, and oil is in there. After nearly 20 minutes of chiseling off the grease and gunk, I was able to figger out how to get the shoes off the mounting spider, (first time I've ever done this). There must have been three to four pounds of buildup inside the braking area. I've never seen anything like that before. I did snap a couple photos but can't download them onto this computer yet. I then threw all the removed parts into the parts washer for a good soak. I'm replacing the saturated shoes that were dripping and may all of them if needed.

I plan to pull all the wheels to ensure the brakes are servicable, and replace all the seals. Have already drained the trans, and both rears, so waiting to put things back together before refilling. Referencing this truck sat for so many years, should I flush out the trans and rear end cases before refilling? Not a real problem to use diesel fuel or some other solvent at this point. I'll have the truck on six stands tomorrow morning. The right front rear drive had three different type of wedges holding the rim on the truck so they will all match when finished too.

Should we get a moderate warm up to the temperature, the steam cleaner is going to have a heyday on this truck! Really should clean out my inside wash bay but it is loaded with parts.

Thanks for listening.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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What time did you shut down the shop? You described two days work at the dealer.

Did the rears have "dust covers"? Some say they keep crap out, all they do is hold crap in.

Making progress, thats a good thing. And you know what to look forward too this weekend

As far as the trans. flush, what did the fluid look/feel/smell like when you drained it?

Diesel or kerosene would work. Just make sure it drains completely. Before refill, waste a little gear oil and pour in and let drain out.

.02

Success is only a stones throw away.................................................................for a Palestinian

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Mornin' Rob.

While you're in there check the brake cams for looseness in the bushings, if it seems that the bushings (or cams) are worn now is the time to fix that too. You can end up with a lot of lost motion at brake application if the cams are loose in the bushings, leading to poor braking even with new shoes & drums.

What type of wheel seals are you putting in there? Hopefully the C/R "Scotseal Classic".

.

"If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It"

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What time did you shut down the shop? You described two days work at the dealer.

Did the rears have "dust covers"? Some say they keep crap out, all they do is hold crap in.

Making progress, thats a good thing. And you know what to look forward too this weekend

As far as the trans. flush, what did the fluid look/feel/smell like when you drained it?

Diesel or kerosene would work. Just make sure it drains completely. Before refill, waste a little gear oil and pour in and let drain out.

.02

Hi there, I cease working on customers cars at 8:00pm sharp unless something is on the verge of being finished. There is always another day. I usually work to 11:30pm on my own stuff, books, (ughh), or internet, before leaving for the night. I only sleep 5.5 hours per night and have for many years, get up and do it again.

I pulled the front tires on Thursday night, ordered the studs and nuts on Friday, tried to pull the hub windows on Friday afternoon, and pulled the brake/hub assembly apart Friday evening. Seldom do I perform administrative functions on Friday.

This truck does not have the dust covers on the rears, the shoes are open and exposed. It is obvious this truck was operated many years with a seal leaking from the accumulated dirt and grime buildup mentioned earlier. I dumped everything into the parts washer to soak overnight so hopefully they will clean up easily. The bottom brake shoe is getting thin so will have them relined when apart. I know this has the potential to be expensive but my daughter is expressing serious interest in the truck so going to do it right, (like there is any other way)......

I have a little pump and tank assembly rigged up that could be used to cycle diesel fuel through the fill and drain plugs to flush the innards of everything. I did not notice any foul smell or water in either of the rears, or transmission when drained. The drain oil did not have the smell of GL-5 either so I suspect it may have been Gl-4 due to age. The more I work with this truck, the more I find that was neglected and passed over referencing maintenance/upkeep. I see things done to get by and keep it working. I suppose this is normal and certainly mean no disrespect.

You think it would take what I've described two days at a dealer? I think with the exception of the cleaning described, I've only got about four hours wrapped so far. My son refers to me as "a machine" in the shop, but having the correct tools to work on this stuff is a great asset. I'm not a mechanic but am very mechanically minded. I learn as I go and tend to remember well except when it comes to bashing my head.......

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Mornin' Rob.

While you're in there check the brake cams for looseness in the bushings, if it seems that the bushings (or cams) are worn now is the time to fix that too. You can end up with a lot of lost motion at brake application if the cams are loose in the bushings, leading to poor braking even with new shoes & drums.

What type of wheel seals are you putting in there? Hopefully the C/R "Scotseal Classic".

.

Good morning Herb, I haven't got it apart far enough yet to tell about the cams. As per your instructions last time on the R795 all this will be looked at and replaced if needed. I won't half ass this repair.

Mutual wheel vendors CR seals and that is what will go into it. I'll get new wear sleeves also. At the same time I'm replacing the type "20" rotochambers with type "24" spring brakes on the front drive, and type "24" service chambers on the rear rear. If it is better to install the spring brakes on the rear rear let me know. I installed new pancakes in the front chambers last week before taking her out for a drive. I will probably have all six hubs apart this afternoon and get the needed parts ordered on Monday. I brought ole "Yella Dog" in Thursday night and removed all the good tires, (80%) and replaced with marginal spares, and originals from the B67 as they come off. If memory serves, the bushing kits for the "S" cams were only about $15.00 per axle so I"ll prolly just put new ones in for safe measure. That way I can evaluate the cams themselves also and not worry about breaking grease seals.

Thanks,

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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I'd suggest putting spring brakes on all 4 drives if you have enough room for the larger cans.

Speaking of tires, those Dunlop drive tires I mentioned a while back are "SP431".

.

They will fit on the rear rears too. I bought a box of "Anchor" brand chambers from a vendor in Chicago along with having the air compressor rebuilt for safe measure and passing a little oil. I have several "Sealco" quick release valves purchased in bulk and will see if there is enough hardware to make it all work. Also have a fresh TP-2 valve to replace the leaker.

Still needing to look into tires so thanks for the relay.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Made a little further progress if you want to call it that. After removing the rt. front drum I have found the shoes to not be very old. The oil hubs were not leaking and the front seals are Stemco. The original seal wear surface has a groove worn into it so I'll put a sleeve on it also. There is a bit of play in the cams and bushings so I'll replace them while it is apart. The front shoe pivot pin was frozen to the shoe, but after moving it back and forth a few times with "blaster" applied, the shoe walked off of the anchor pin. I couldn't knock the bronze bushings from the cam tube so I took it off the truck and will press them out after cleanup. The cam will be replaced if available as there is about .025 wear on the front surface. By grabbing the S part itself, I can move it up and down about 1/16th inch. I don't know what a tolerance is but I know the cam and bearings have wear.

The front rear had a wear sleeve on the sealing surface and I had a hell of a time getting it off. It was also Stemco. I called the parts store and the seal in this drum was obsoleted in 1975, so it appears this has not been apart for quite some time. There are quite a few supercessions since these were common part numbers. There is also some play in the cams here also. It is not apart far enough to ascertain all bad parts but I'm relatively sure the same will happen as the front. The bearings all looked very good so there is no real need to replace them. They are all Timken.

The front hub was something like I'd never seen before. There was a clamp on the threads with two bolts, one a pinch bolt that was safety wired to prevent it backing off, and one bolt that engaged a lock ring with holes in it. A lot more cumbersome to work with than the double nut and cotter pin setup in use now. I also got the balance of the tires swapped over to Yella Dog so it can go back outside. The other wheels are dry and I'll get them apart tomorrow morning so parts can be ordered and acquired during the next week. Going to be working out of town next week and home in the evenings so don't know how much will get done.

I also noticed several of the brackets that bolt through the frame and mount the 5th wheel tracks are cracked, and broken. The 5th wheel is a Fontaine mechanical slide unit and it will be removed and the brackets repaired/replaced. Also the rear mount that supports the cab is broken on the left side. It is simply a piece of angle steel that is bolted to both a crossbar with the cab mount, and through the frame rail.

Going to need to replace the solvent in the parts washer. I can't remember what brand it is but there is some age on it now. There is probably three inches of sludge in the bottom of the tank and it is not cutting as it used to. Need to get the agitator rigged back up. The complete rear drum and spoke are soaking now.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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There are things that one does with-out thinking.

Never gave it much pondering 'til Herb mentioned to 'S' cam bushing.

They are not 'press fit' but as he said, you will get some funky wear and breaking if they're worn.

And $15.00 is cheap!

Packer

Keep a clutchin'

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There are things that one does with-out thinking.

Never gave it much pondering 'til Herb mentioned to 'S' cam bushing.

They are not 'press fit' but as he said, you will get some funky wear and breaking if they're worn.

And $15.00 is cheap!

Packer

Herb and I have been down this avenue prior on my Project R-12. He helped/coached me redoing the front cams, bushings, seals, wear rings and such on the steer axle. I've still to do the rears, but have decided to concentrate on one project at a time to get something finished. This B67 is very close to road worthy so I'm going with it pronto.

Come hell or high water I'm going to some truck shows this year driving this truck!! Sad part is my belly won't stay out of the steering wheel so my daughter has layed "Dibs" on it when completed.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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I have noticed that 'B' model cabs do shrink!!!!

When I was 18-20 years old, there was a lot more more room between the steering wheel and the seat.

So I'm SURE the cabs have shrunk over the years!!!! LMAO

Packer

Keep a clutchin'

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I have noticed that 'B' model cabs do shrink!!!!

When I was 18-20 years old, there was a lot more more room between the steering wheel and the seat.

So I'm SURE the cabs have shrunk over the years!!!! LMAO

Packer

I agree. Sorta like a favorite T shirt. Can't be me.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Rob, I was just thinking:

Instead of the concave B67 cab, maybe you need a "convex" cab.

.

Daughter wants my power steering unit and a four spoke wood wheel that is 16" diameter. Don't know if I can let the wood wheel pass, but the p/s, I'm alright with. Something about a modern wheel in a B model just doesn't seem right to me. May see if I can "cut down" a 22" wheel and have a new ring rolled to the 16" diameter.

With this truck I can't underhand turn the steering wheel. Using the "push, pull" method doesn't work too well for me with the drag and friction burn on my gut from the wheel rim, (momma don't much like the grease marks from the wheel neither) so have to do something else. A B-61 cab is tight, but not uncomfortable and managable, this one really isn't for me.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Daughter wants my power steering unit and a four spoke wood wheel that is 16" diameter. Don't know if I can let the wood wheel pass, but the p/s, I'm alright with. Something about a modern wheel in a B model just doesn't seem right to me. May see if I can "cut down" a 22" wheel and have a new ring rolled to the 16" diameter.

With this truck I can't underhand turn the steering wheel. Using the "push, pull" method doesn't work too well for me with the drag and friction burn on my gut from the wheel rim, (momma don't much like the grease marks from the wheel neither) so have to do something else. A B-61 cab is tight, but not uncomfortable and managable, this one really isn't for me.

Rob

just a thought...(Paul Van Scott)

Producer of poorly photo-chopped pictures since 1999.

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just a thought...(Paul Van Scott)

Naw, I couldn't butcher a B model like that.

Thanks for the thought.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Well, I'm to the point of awaiting parts now. All hubs are off and will have the seals replaced because of age. All are "Stemco" brand seals, all bearings are "Timken". I've taken the rt. front wheel assembly apart with the "S" cam and bushing holder removed to size up for parts. Also took the one leaking rear completely apart for the same reason. All the wedges for the rear tires are going to be replaced because the area that is supposed to be flat for the nuts to bear against are concave and the retention nuts are "splayed" out from the torque. Amazingly all the brake shoes are in nice shape with the exception of the saturated set. I've already ordered all new nuts and studs for the front wheels so all will be new when the truck is put back together. I've looked at the studs in the rear and really don't see any problems with them so they will stay. The drums all look good with virtually no ridge and minimal heat cracking. I would not deem them unsafe for use or I'd replace them. I do plan to separate the spiders from the drums and have all blasted clean.

The truck was built all green including the frame. The wheels however were white, and the rotating assemblies were red. This is an assumption on the wheels but a couple are date stamped 1962 which is the year of the truck. Three of the wheels are the three piece, and the balance of seven are the two piece type. I don't plan to reuse the three piece ones as they are hard to get worked with anymore. I've never had any problems myself but don't really change tires any longer unless there is no way around it.

Last week I replaced the pancakes in the front steer axle chambers as one was blown. When I removed the chambers yesterday I noticed the one on the rt. side was rusted through by where the actuator rod protrudes through. I didn't see this when I changed the diaphram on the truck or I'd have replaced both then. I have new chambers in the shop so not really a problem.

Something I noticed on this truck is everything is bronze bushed, even the holes in the slack adjusters. Also the slack adjusters have a bolt to retain them to the S cam shafts. Keep in mind that I have very limited experience in the mechanical thing but up to now all I've seen have been retained by a snap ring. Everything is so buried in mud/grease under this truck every turn is a new discovery. I also started douching everything down with "Blaster" to work on the fasteners. I will most likely have to use a torch to warm fastener to remove the sheet metal but this will get a little head start on the process. I've sworn to myself that I won't take this one apart and plan to stick with this analogy but I can clean the truck so much more effectively with the front sheet metal removed I really so no other option. Besides I will be able to replace all the old pressure lines with easier access.

Last year for Christmas Momma had got me a slack puller, clevis pin press, small u joint puller for the steering columns, cap installer for the u joints, and the Christmas before that a u joint puller for the driveline joints. All have been used and it sure is a blessing to have the right tools not to mention the ease of use!! Just before Thanksgiving I purchased wheel bearing sockets so almost everything I need is now in the tool box. Next item to purchase is a seal driver set for this big stuff. My current set only goes to about 3" and is not large enough.

This truck has front oil hubs on it and I wouldn't mind going back to grease packed if I could find the original style caps with the "Mack" script in them. A couple of other trucks I have have these and I like the looks of them.

This truck has an FA-517 steer axle and from what I've read it's a 9500# rating. It seems to be a little narrower than the FA-505 series axles that are under two of my B61 series trucks and the SAI is a little different. I suppose this is because of the short wheelbase that measures right at 150 inches to the center of the trunion. Forgot to mention that is getting rebushed also while it's apart.

I also keep compiling a list of tools I need to add to the shops inventory. More jack stands, brake drum handler, tire dolly, (I'm lazy), and several other small things. The list continues to grow.......

At least I'm having fun as I go broke.

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Man Rob........you're running around faster then a porn star with a limp............um.........well, you sure are busy!

After buying my truck I had to get the front brakes hooked up/working. Everything was frozen solid and took some heat to make the brakeshoes move/s-cams work. Re-honed the bushings and everything works great.

How's your kingpins? Definitely want to work on those since you got the hubs off! Actually really easy project to do, my pins came out pretty effortlessly(Compared to ford trucks).

Oh, ya, any input on speedo pickup? Just wondering?

IMG-20180116-202556-655.jpg

Larry

1959 B61 Liv'n Large......................

Charter member of the "MACK PACK"

 

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Man Rob........you're running around faster then a porn star with a limp............um.........well, you sure are busy!

After buying my truck I had to get the front brakes hooked up/working. Everything was frozen solid and took some heat to make the brakeshoes move/s-cams work. Re-honed the bushings and everything works great.

How's your kingpins? Definitely want to work on those since you got the hubs off! Actually really easy project to do, my pins came out pretty effortlessly(Compared to ford trucks).

Oh, ya, any input on speedo pickup? Just wondering?

Hi Larry, I'm working at a new radar site construction and there is no internet access, and have no camera software on this new hard drive so can't download photos. I've taken plenty of photos to show what I've been/going through.

The king pins are tight in this truck as are all steering parts with the exception of the steering gear itself. It is nice on center but has play as you go either way of center. It kind of rattles through the column in a turn on uneven road, or gravel. Straight away, there is no looseness. I ordered a blind hole bushing puller as I don't have one and these are too tight to drive out with a punch and hammer without crushing. Probably get back to this project over the weekend as the brake blocks for the rears won't be done until Friday. I went with a friction material listed as "FE" in grade, (bet that sounds familiar).

No luck on an inexpensive pickup, yet. So far most in the size needed are a little over a hundred bucks. Got another place to try if I can remember during the day hours, (just wrote myself a note).

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Having one hell of a time getting the seals for the wheels due to obsolete parts, but moving slowly. I've never seen it before but this truck is built with removeable front hub oil sealing surfaces. They are pinned into place to not roll on the spindle. I have all the bushing kits, (bronze oilite) for all the "S" cams, and two of the cams for the rears, but only the left front one for the steer. The others are located, just have not been received yet. Still haven't recieved the puller set that was ordered the first of the week so can go no further yet to pull the bushings. Still haven't received the replacement brake blocks either so really can't put anything back together yet. Pulled all the rotochambers and mounted a couple on the truck but have not plumbed anything. As per Herb's suggestion I'll install spring brakes on both rear axles.

It had to happen that I'd get bored watching paint dry in the shop so I and helper took to removing the front sheet metal. Off came the fenders and headlamp panels, along with the balance of the supporting sheet metal stampings. The bolt together edges of the headlamp mounting panels, inner fender closing panels where they bolt together with the headlamp mounting panels will require rebuilding. Also found a couple cracks in the inner fender panels I didn't know existed but these are an easy fix. I am really surprised how well this thing came apart. I've seen five year old cars not come apart as easily.

Being quite a bit ahead of the game at this point, I then pulled the breastplate and bumper assembly with frame mounting brackets from "Yella Dog". I want to put these assemblies on the B67, then try to locate another for the other project(s).

Rob

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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Having one hell of a time getting the seals for the wheels due to obsolete parts, but moving slowly. I've never seen it before but this truck is built with removeable front hub oil sealing surfaces. They are pinned into place to not roll on the spindle. I have all the bushing kits, (bronze oilite) for all the "S" cams, and two of the cams for the rears, but only the left front one for the steer. The others are located, just have not been received yet. Still haven't recieved the puller set that was ordered the first of the week so can go no further yet to pull the bushings. Still haven't received the replacement brake blocks either so really can't put anything back together yet. Pulled all the rotochambers and mounted a couple on the truck but have not plumbed anything. As per Herb's suggestion I'll install spring brakes on both rear axles.

It had to happen that I'd get bored watching paint dry in the shop so I and helper took to removing the front sheet metal. Off came the fenders and headlamp panels, along with the balance of the supporting sheet metal stampings. The bolt together edges of the headlamp mounting panels, inner fender closing panels where they bolt together with the headlamp mounting panels will require rebuilding. Also found a couple cracks in the inner fender panels I didn't know existed but these are an easy fix. I am really surprised how well this thing came apart. I've seen five year old cars not come apart as easily.

Being quite a bit ahead of the game at this point, I then pulled the breastplate and bumper assembly with frame mounting brackets from "Yella Dog". I want to put these assemblies on the B67, then try to locate another for the other project(s).

Rob

We used Stemco seals with wear rings in the late 70's.......Did you try them for cross-reference

on seal #

We had a 74 F-model with that removable wear surface ring on the steer axle

gallery_133_137_10125.jpg

Thanks for hearing me out.

You can have the soap box now---------JIM

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We used Stemco seals with wear rings in the late 70's.......Did you try them for cross-reference

on seal #

We had a 74 F-model with that removable wear surface ring on the steer axle

Hi Jim, all the original seals were "Stemco" and I'm trying to go with Herb's suggestion of CR. The Stemco numbers were discontinued in 1975 by them and there are several new part numbers since. It will come together, just takes a little bit of time. Glad this is not a working truck.

I'd never seen the removable wear ring before and these are shot with a deep groove in them. They did not have a "speedi sleeve" installed, but did not leak. The original seals were leather also.

Dog.jpg.487f03da076af0150d2376dbd16843ed.jpgPlodding along with no job nor practical application for my existence, but still trying to fix what's broke.

 

 

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