Full Floater

Ooooohhhhh!!! Sounds like something I can do away with?!?!? In exchange for using common sense and not compounding the brakes!

Well, the anti rattle springs go in after the int. plate is installed.

I will figure a way to get these ones out today, and will report back with the results. I think they may be creating just enough added resistance to hold up that plate...seeing how I was able to pry it back with a pry tool when the clutch pedal was pressed

I did, sorry for the lack of responses, been tied up with other clutch problems on a different truck. I got both the front service brakes and rear air supply to a relay valve plumbed into the delivery ports, which were on the bottom if I recall correctly. (Im not in front of it at the moment). there is a small line from the foot valve that is connected to the parking brake knob for some reason, that I plumbed into the foot valve wrong as the parking brake valve won't apply the maxi's now when pulled out. I think that line has to "dump" air somewhere and I have it plumbed into a supply port I think. Not sure on whats up with that but I got the service brakes to function so I could get that truck home. So for now, mission accomplished. Thank you

https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/eaton/products/clutches-brakes/clutch-installation-kits/eaton-hd-manual-adjust-clutch-clmt1351.pdf Here is a pathetic pic and install instruction of an Eaton anti rattle spring. It came included in the clutch kit and they are a thin steel shim/spring stock that gets pressed in by hand, between the intermediate plate and flywheel. They are snug but can be pulled out and pushed in by hand. There are 3 of them. Im assuming its to reduce any rattle or vibration that the intermediate plate may develop. Ok so I have now determined that the problem is in fact the intermediate plate sticking, just as you guys figured. I just discovered that there is 1 thru hole on the flywheel housing that allows visual access to the primary disk and flywheel side of the intermediate plate. With the clutch pedal depressed, I can get a thin pry tool in there and pry back the plate away from the friction disk. Viola! Its stiff and sometimes it will pry back and sometimes it wont. I accomplished this with the dog nuts loosened off. Since I was able to pry the intermediate plate back with a pry tool while the pedal is depressed, Im thinking nothing is installed backwards....just it's sticking. Something of note, the old clutch and the clutch on the donor engine did NOT have anti rattle springs. I installed them on this clutch as the instructions told me to. I think this might have been the mistake. I cannot get them out thru the pressure plate openings, as I thought I might be able to, unless I brake them apart somehow. Im going to try that. Im almost ready to take a die grinder or something to the spring in a spot or two to help collapse it and pull it out thru the pressure plate openings. Good tip and jabbing the clutch in and out while the driveline is spinning in attempt to free it up. I have been doing that quite a bit, along with sudden brake applications while the clutch is pressed in and only partly disengaging. I have done a lot and the situation isnt' improving. I even tried it with the dog nuts loosened a bit. I can see part of the dogs thru the flexplate openings and they all look new-ish as I remembered them looking and none are cockeyed or anything. So im pretty sure it's the anti rattle springs that I should have excluded. I will make a solid attempt at removing them and we'll see how the clutch reacts. If that fixes the problem without dropping the trans, you can imagine how happy i'll be! https://www.phoenixfriction.com/p-29245-crp-161c-5-anti-rattle-spring-for-14-in-spicer.aspx Here is a proper pic of the anti rattle spring .

Back it off as in turn counter clockwise and achieve zero free play in the peddle? I can try again, although I have already.

The anti rattle springs. Are they installed on all clutches. the instruction in the clutch pack made them sound optional for some clutches. I installed them on mine as that was my understanding on this particular clutch. They were snug enough that one would think that would hold up an intermediate plate. I wonder if I should take them out. I can see them at the right angle, I bet I can fish them out

I have, yup. At the moment its set up to spec with about 2'' of free travel on the pedal and 1/2'' between the TO bearing and clutch brake. But I have gone to zero travel and to the extreme the other way as well to about 3'' or more. Same symptoms. I'm achieving this by turn the 5/8 bolt on the clutch adjuster but have also set the linkage to zero play to get as much pull on the clutch as possible.

Good tips on making up a trolley for it. Same with using some all thread. I think in this case I will use some 4x4 wood or steel tubing across the window sills, and remove the floor panel and sling around the front and back of the trans. It was done this way on this truck before according to a previous owner. I just don't have the material on hand to rig up a decent trolly, nor is there a place near by that sells heavy trans jacks. I'd like to get started on the pulling of the trans asap if that's what ends up happening

Thanks fellas. Well, although uneventful and nothing bad happened, I did what was suggested to not do and loosened (about 1 turn) the nuts for the 6 dogs, on the outside of the flywheel through the little access hole for them. With the engine off, I pushed the clutch pedal in and out a few times, then re-tightened the nuts. To no avail. Still acting the same way. I was hoping that would free up a stuck intermediate plate. I'm almost tempted to try it once more with the engine running but that may be a bad idea.... Yes, good thoughts on the pilot bearing. It is brand new in this case and I really hope it didn't fail out of the box!

Lots of scratching my head going on here on this one!!

I would imagine it was done with the dogs in place. I didn't ask. In hindsight I should have but at the time I didn't think anything of it. The flywheel wasn't in bad shape so they just cleaned it up a tad, I was happy with the quality of the surface.

I actually believe this is a new clutch. That's what they sold it as anyways.. I don't have a good enough jack for these trans, I will have to use a chain fall off a 4x4 that's laid across the window sills. Im doing the work on a gravel surface to. Which is why im trying to exhaust all options first lol

Ok, it's making sense to me now. I bet thats what's happening since im getting SOME disengagement but not enough. Probably just the rear friction disk is releasing and not the front. So with the clutch pushed in, I then SHOULD be able to move/wiggle the rear friction disk if I can get to it, correct? It also makes sense that the dogs will just move back if I loosen then tighten them. I think I should at least try that before pulling the pin and dropping the trans....JUST IN CASE it works! If it does I will certainly buy a lotto ticket and will also share it with you fine fellas! If I attempt that.....should I do that with the pedal depressed?

HAHAH. Ok note taken. But when you say no way of holding the dogs, is that in reference to them falling out if I accidently remove the nut, OR do you mean hold them to keep them aligned? I was thinking just loosening the nut about 1 turn or something to take tension off of the dogs and hopefully let them settle where they need to settle, in case one is kittywampus

OR!!! if I loosened the dog nuts thru the access port one at a time, then with the engine off I depress the clutch pedal several times to hopefully align anything that might be out of whack, then retorque them. Thoughts?

So the dogs allow the intermediate plate to move back and forth, correct? I'm not familiar with them in any other application that I've worked with in the past. This is my first Mack trans/clutch operation

Grease is due to not pressure washing everything as good as I should have during install due to it being 10 below during that time. There was a leaky rear main on the previous engine. There is no grease on the new clutch brake however.

Side note, thank you everyone for your dedicated and prompt support. Means a lot. I hope I can return the favor on another topic one day

Sorry I never answered that dog question a few posts back. The dogs are the same dogs that were in the flywheel. The clutch had been replaced at some point recently (thats probably when the rubber mounts were done as well) due to a wore out clutch. There was not much wear on the clutch and the dogs were likely done then also, seeing how there was no noticeable wear on them. Just so things are clear, the reason the clutch was replaced again is due to me having the engine out of the truck and obviously it made sense to throw a new clutch at it while im in there. As for the dogs, they appeared square/aligned when I slid on the intermediate place but I did have to kinda push/tap that plate on. It wasn't totally smooth but also not an apparent problem. There is a side access port on the flywheel housing to access 1 dog nut at a time. I wonder if it would be worth while to loosen each, one at a time; and retorque. In case one is hung up or something

I can't really get a good pic of the clutch brake with the release fork in the way....but it's in there. Kind of sitting "loosely" in the keyway of the input shaft that is slide in on

The clutch brake is the same brake that was in it when I pulled the old engine out. And its the same brake that's in the truck that had the donor engine. A Babcock 2 piece. Slides over the input shaft of the trans and mates up to that nose cone/plate unit with springs on the trans side, then up to the flat side of the TO bearing. It's almost as if there is no clutch brake action taking place. If it was a automobile with a manual trans, it would be like pressing the clutch down just barely, enough to not stall the engine when the trans is in gear, but not enough to easily slide the shifter in or out of gear.

Also the cable was replaced when I installed the engine/clutch and reassembled everything. It's a Mack sourced cable for the truck VIN that had the same specs as the old cable.

Thanks for clarifying what term is for what when it comes to adjusting. I adjusted the 5/8 adjusting bolt (w/pedal depressed with a 2x4) to the point of having more then 3'' free travel in the pedal to almost no free travel. Equating to +/- 1/2'' gap between the TO bearing and the clutch brake. I use a piece of 1/2'' round stock bent in such a way to fit around the release fork to make that measurement. I also adjusted the external linkage rod. Neither of which made a noticeable difference. I have messed with both adjustments lots over the past couple days, but messed with them again during this test with the wheels off the ground so I can run the driveline.

The 4 rubber mounts on the bellhousing/trans area are in great shape. I think they were replaced not too long ago by a previous owner. The front mount "seems" fine...not really too sure what to look for there. The shift levers do rock a fair bit. Actually more then my other 3 six speed trucks do