Mark T Posted Wednesday at 02:52 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 02:52 PM 1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said: Not the main shaft itself, but the gears that are on it are floating, the countershaft keeps them centered over the shaft. Being "pretty sure" doesn't cut it. That is why I posted a picture from the Fuller Roadranger manual. I have no idea on a Mack triple counter shaft trans, how they do it, Jo-Jo could chime in on that. The main shaft except the nose (where there is a bushing between it and the input shaft, is splined the whole length with grooves tangentially for snap rings to hold the fore and aft position of the gears, The clearance between the gears and main shaft are maintained by the gears on the two countershafts. If the counter shaft or its key gets a twist, the gear on the main shaft gets out of line and it can be difficult or impossible to get into that gear. It is one of the 1st things to check on overhaul. A bushing riding on a splined shaft would have an extremely short life. Those splined gears on the main shaft are a very close fit to the splined part. Like enough for oil and that's it. Perhaps I should have used the word "bushing" as opposed to adding an (S) Point is none of the mainshaft assembly relies on countershafts for support. It's a delicate balance in there of floating and not. If anything on a mainshaft does more than float as intended ??? you have problems. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574841 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 03:03 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:03 PM Not if you look at the 1st picture I posted from the manual, that gear is going over the splines at quite and angle. Also there is no listing for the clearance of the gears on the shaft. The only listed clearance is for fore and aft float which is .005-.012 adjusted with spacer thickness. If Glenn Akers was still with us he could settle this quickly. The main is held by a bearing at one end and bushing in the input shaft pocket. the gears are held located by the countershaft gears they mate with. They don't ride on the main shaft when the trans is assembled. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574843 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:10 PM 7 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said: Not if you look at the 1st picture I posted from the manual, that gear is going over the splines at quite and angle. Also there is no listing for the clearance of the gears on the shaft. The only listed clearance is for fore and aft float which is .005-.012 adjusted with spacer thickness. If Glenn Akers was still with us he could settle this quickly. The main is held by a bearing at one end and bushing in the input shaft pocket. the gears are held located by the countershaft gears they mate with. They don't ride on the main shaft when the trans is assembled. I'm pretty sure the gears on the mainshaft are splined inside and ride the mainshaft. It's all pretty tight. Floats, yet tight. Not a clearance that can be adjusted like the limit washers for fore and aft. More like good or bad. The mainshaft shares a common centerline that also isn't adjustable. Good or bad. Bearing on the input, bushing between (input) rest of the shaft and bearing where it goes into the auxilury drive. All floats, but it's tight. Doesn't rely on countershafts to give support in any way. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574844 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted Wednesday at 03:12 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:12 PM Then there's another bushing like that in the auxilury after the auxilury drive. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574845 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted Wednesday at 03:36 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:36 PM in the Mack transmissions, the speed gears have 2 thrust washers in the middle of them, held in with a snap ring. one washer has splines on the inside diameter, that engage the main shaft splines, the other washer has large teeth on the outside diameter that engage the clutching splines inside the speed gear. that thrust washer is to keep the sliding clutch at the proper depth during gear selection. The speed gears that are back to back of each other on the main shaft have a ground surface on the back sides. these gears are thrust against each other. snap rings on the main shaft keep these gears from sliding up and down the main shaft. the sliding clutches are splined in the inside diameter, and are slid over the splines on the main shaft. when this is assembled, as GW said earlier. the countershaft gears keep the speed gear centered. the main shaft is centered by bearings on the ends. the front one being a spigot bear engaged into the input shaft. the speed gear from front to back are as follows. 4th-5th-3rd-2nd-1st-rev... my post is from my head and not my books, so there's a chance I left something out. 2 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574846 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 03:43 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 03:43 PM Joey, that sounds just like Spicer and Fuller, The spacers and lock rings just keep the gear located fore and aft, the countershaft gears keep the gear centered but not riding on the main shaft. 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574847 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joey Mack Posted Wednesday at 03:48 PM Popular Post Share Posted Wednesday at 03:48 PM yes sir, but my re-building knowledge of eatons an meritors is weak, with the exception of 10 speed back boxes. However, Mack transmissions where one of my many skills when I worked in the Mack Dealerships. Thats all i got.. 3 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574848 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark T Posted Wednesday at 05:43 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:43 PM 1 hour ago, Geoff Weeks said: Joey, that sounds just like Spicer and Fuller, The spacers and lock rings just keep the gear located fore and aft, the countershaft gears keep the gear centered but not riding on the main shaft. You do realize that based on that theory, tens of thousands of single countershaft transmissions have nothing "centering" mainshaft gears. Like for instance in an M Drive Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574853 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 05:53 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 05:53 PM Single counter-shaft transmission are not built the same way, and this is not a "theory". Single countershaft have no opposing force so the main shaft carries the side thrust. The gears on those run bushing in the gears that ride on the main shaft Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574854 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted Wednesday at 10:14 PM Author Share Posted Wednesday at 10:14 PM My three part video shows how a single CS transmission is assembled. Bushings are splined onto main shaft, then the gears are bushed and ride on that. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574867 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted Wednesday at 10:16 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 10:16 PM I enjoy reading your postings.. impressive stuff.. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574868 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted Wednesday at 11:57 PM Share Posted Wednesday at 11:57 PM Yes, and full length brass bushing on the inside of the gears and steel bushing for it to ride on the main shaft. That is the difference in construction with single counter shaft trans vs. multi counter shaft transmission design. Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574883 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted Thursday at 05:24 PM Author Share Posted Thursday at 05:24 PM 19 hours ago, Joey Mack said: I enjoy reading your postings.. impressive stuff.. I put three 1/2 hr videos on YouTube 1 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-574945 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago Yeah 1076 only had 2 countershafts, and I believe no PTO gear. If I remember right that is because the shaft with the PTO gear is the one missing. From the outside the transmissions look identical. I had a couple of them that were trucks built for Matlack or Chemical Leaman. I never noticed any difference in operation Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575048 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Joseph Cummings said: Yeah 1076 only had 2 countershafts, and I believe no PTO gear. If I remember right that is because the shaft with the PTO gear is the one missing. From the outside the transmissions look identical. I had a couple of them that were trucks built for Matlack or Chemical Leaman. I never noticed any difference in operation you'd think those carriers needed a PTO? Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575049 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago 3 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said: you'd think those carriers needed a PTO? Might have had the PTO that ran off end of counter shaft. Terry Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575050 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 13 hours ago Share Posted 13 hours ago (edited) 19 minutes ago, Geoff Weeks said: you'd think those carriers needed a PTO? None of those trucks had any evidence of pumps or blowers ever being on them, and not all the ex - Matlack and Chemical Leaman tractors had the 1076 trans in them. It seemed like the older ones we got had regular TRL107s in them and had the PTO gear in them. Not saying all their trucks were speced that way, I can only say from the 10 or 12 I dealt with. Later on we were getting Ex-Wawa dairy R models Edited 12 hours ago by Joseph Cummings Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575051 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted 6 hours ago Share Posted 6 hours ago Just curious? If the lower counter shaft is omitted. How is the trans getting bathed in oil? Is there a pump added,? The fill plug is only so high up, so extra oil would just spill out. For a pto, would they have put the lower counter shaft in the #1 or #2 position so they could use a rear mounted unit, or did these engines have 'REPTO'S" ? 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575054 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brocky Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago Some of the Matlack tractors destined for the bulk cement industry only had just the "Stack Blower".. These were a double Turbo mounted on the right rear corner of the cab in the exhaust system below the muffler. To unload you ran the engine at wide open throttle and moved a leaver which put the exhaust thru the drive turbo and the driven turbo would create the unloading air.. These worked good for easy flowing cement, and short pushes, BUT did not supply enough air to move heavier products or products which were sensitive to heat.. 1 1 Quote Brocky Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575058 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago 4 hours ago, Joey Mack said: Just curious? If the lower counter shaft is omitted. How is the trans getting bathed in oil? Is there a pump added,? The fill plug is only so high up, so extra oil would just spill out. For a pto, would they have put the lower counter shaft in the #1 or #2 position so they could use a rear mounted unit, or did these engines have 'REPTO'S" ? There was an oil pump in the trl107 and all it's variations that was a plunger in the input shaft But I was wrong about witch shaft was missing, It was the top drivers side But I know there were some in that transmission family that didn't have PTO gears. We had some and I could swear they were those ex tank trucks with the 1076 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575060 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted 2 hours ago Share Posted 2 hours ago Yep, I remember that style of pump now. There was an excentric on the input shaft Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575061 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 1 hour ago Share Posted 1 hour ago 11 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: Yep, I remember that style of pump now. There was an excentric on the input shaft You know I don't think I had a lot of them apart other than to replace the input shaft. They didn't really break that much. I built a few though, the shafts were timed so you had to remember that, but they were simple and trouble free. And back in the 80's you could buy a good used one for 4 or 5 hundred. And if you opened one up you were guaranteed to spend lots more Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575062 Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted 31 minutes ago Share Posted 31 minutes ago 1 hour ago, Joey Mack said: Yep, I remember that style of pump now. There was an excentric on the input shaft Didn't the cover have the excentric in it, and that little pump gizmo would move back and forth to pump the oil? terry 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575077 Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joseph Cummings Posted 26 minutes ago Share Posted 26 minutes ago 3 minutes ago, terry said: Didn't the cover have the excentric in it, and that little pump gizmo would move back and forth to pump the oil? terry Yeah that's the way I remember it, plunger was in a hole that went through the shaft 1 Quote Link to comment https://www.bigmacktrucks.com/topic/75472-trl-107-gear-ratios/page/2/#findComment-575079 Share on other sites More sharing options...
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