Full Floater Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 I have a shaft driven pump off the PTO on this 107 6 speed in an R model. I'm curious if I can do away with the shaft drive and remote pump, for a pump that's married to the PTO. Does such a beast exist for a 6 speed? Thanks, Kevin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terry Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Yeah there out there, just have to do a little digging. terry 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 Or even better yet, does anyone have a part #? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 17 hours ago, Full Floater said: I have a shaft driven pump off the PTO on this 107 6 speed in an R model. I'm curious if I can do away with the shaft drive and remote pump, for a pump that's married to the PTO. Does such a beast exist for a 6 speed? Thanks, Kevin I think you’ll have to go with a side mount,why are u looking to change the rear mount,I like them better.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
67RModel Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 Just go on Muncie’s website and use their PTO builder. Over a dozen options https://www.munciepower.com 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 51 minutes ago, 67RModel said: Just go on Muncie’s website and use their PTO builder. Over a dozen options https://www.munciepower.com Nice. Never knew about this Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 (edited) 1 hour ago, MACKS said: I am wanting to have a more compact setup and re-purposing the truck and need the room where the remote pump currently sits. I'm curious as to why you prefer the rear mounts. I honestly don't know the difference between the two Edited April 30, 2023 by Full Floater Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 OK.... so... when you remove this low mounted PTO off,, first,, drain the oil. then after you get the PTO off or the whole thing, keep track of the shims, do not bend them or mess them up... buy another bearing cap like the top 2, they are the same... heres the other deal.. there is a bearing race inside the PTO bearing cover.. you will have to replace that bearing race. the proper way is to replace the bearing on the lower counter shaft as a set. which requires taking the back box apart.. so.... depending on your need and purpose of this truck,,, you can get a lower bearing housing with a bearing race installed or buy a new bearing race... to install.. the shims are important and must be put back in.. Bearing pre-load is .002''-.005'' on re-used bearings.. So, its on you to feel good about the roller bearing condition, when you pull the lower cap off. also, another very important thing... before you remove the PTO assembley, pull a side cover off and wedge a clean bar in there to hold the lower counter shaft in its position.. if it drops too low and moves slightly, it can be put back in place 1 tooth off.. A little pressure from the bar pushing UP is ok.. It will keep the lower counter shaft timed.. then when you SLOWLY install the new lower cover, before you tighten it up (done) you can pull the bar out.. I hope I help you here.. keep in touch.. Jojo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted April 30, 2023 Author Share Posted April 30, 2023 33 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: OK.... so... when you remove this low mounted PTO off,, first,, drain the oil. then after you get the PTO off or the whole thing, keep track of the shims, do not bend them or mess them up... buy another bearing cap like the top 2, they are the same... heres the other deal.. there is a bearing race inside the PTO bearing cover.. you will have to replace that bearing race. the proper way is to replace the bearing on the lower counter shaft as a set. which requires taking the back box apart.. so.... depending on your need and purpose of this truck,,, you can get a lower bearing housing with a bearing race installed or buy a new bearing race... to install.. the shims are important and must be put back in.. Bearing pre-load is .002''-.005'' on re-used bearings.. So, its on you to feel good about the roller bearing condition, when you pull the lower cap off. also, another very important thing... before you remove the PTO assembley, pull a side cover off and wedge a clean bar in there to hold the lower counter shaft in its position.. if it drops too low and moves slightly, it can be put back in place 1 tooth off.. A little pressure from the bar pushing UP is ok.. It will keep the lower counter shaft timed.. then when you SLOWLY install the new lower cover, before you tighten it up (done) you can pull the bar out.. I hope I help you here.. keep in touch.. Jojo Wow! MANY THANKS for taking the time to write that post. All of which is news to me! I might want to re-think this whole ordeal 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 if the PTO work's,,, run-it.. I dont want to 'scare anyone here' so I WILL, take the time to write the info. No need to re-think what you want to do, unless you may not have the skill set to do the repair.. I mean that with full respect.. I hope I didnt offend you.. jojo 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 this type of procedure it is better to scare someone in doubt of doing the job. WITH TOTAL RESPECT also. pull back on the shaft internal shimms may drop ::correct? it's been a while. should a rear mount P T O be removed and replaced with side mount is it necessary to turn counter shaft back to180 position for a flat recover to fit properly ???? I may be misreading with purpose to remove remote pump , and keep rear mount P T O with self contained pump? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 the side mount PTO uses a seperate gear, no timing required.. prying up on the lower countershaft keeps that shaft 'timed' while the work is being done.. the bearing cover for the lower shaft is the same as the upper (2) if you decide to not use the lower for a PTO drive.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post mechohaulic Posted April 30, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted April 30, 2023 another thought based on yrs back ;the rear mount P T O 's on 6 speeds were constant run when engaged with truck moving or stationary. the side mount 6 speed pto worked off trans being in gear on main. pto speed depended on gear main was in. spreading asphalt was challenging :: truck had to be in low for spreading which was tooo slow for dump/PTO operation. thus the rear mount pto came to be. 3 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 9 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: the side mount PTO uses a seperate gear, no timing required.. prying up on the lower countershaft keeps that shaft 'timed' while the work is being done.. the bearing cover for the lower shaft is the same as the upper (2) if you decide to not use the lower for a PTO drive.. have designs changed ; if lower rear cover is reinstalled, doesn't the small external shaft near cover have to be turned back and freeze out plug or5/8bolt installed?? to install a rear mount pto after drain/remove cover/knockout center freeze out plug , install 5/8bolt and very gingerly pull back shaft ( 1 1/8 socket ?over shaft)+no more than 1/4 in or shims fall internally. open end/ adjustable wrench and turn shaft 180 degrees so a new pto will fit. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted April 30, 2023 Share Posted April 30, 2023 I'm lost, Mech... I'm thinkin about 107"s are you talking TRD72's and such.. ?? I may need to back out, so I dont post wrong info.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 DON'T BACK OUT; your info more correct based on newer units. my failing memory goes back to when things like rear PTO's were BRAND NEW items. I did a few ;remember the warnings of pulling/turning small shaft near lower cover. NOT ONE OF THE THREE COUNTERSHAFTS shaft stuck out 3/8th in with slot cut in it. rear cover held shaft in some what. tapered press fit in trans housing. rear pto housing wouldn't fit flat without turning shaft. might have been used for oil return to trans after pto installed 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 lost when trans numbers used ::107/// TRD72 etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 1 hour ago, mechohaulic said: this type of procedure it is better to scare someone in doubt of doing the job. WITH TOTAL RESPECT also. pull back on the shaft internal shimms may drop ::correct? it's been a while. should a rear mount P T O be removed and replaced with side mount is it necessary to turn counter shaft back to180 position for a flat recover to fit properly ???? I may be misreading with purpose to remove remote pump , and keep rear mount P T O with self contained pump? may have confused things stating "necessary to turn COUNTER SHAFT back 180 position"". not one of three main countershafts. sorry all. possibly better title would be rea auxiliary shaft? not sure of proper name description. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MACKS Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 When I had my drop axle installed we had to switch from a rear mount to side on a 12 speed trans,don’t remember my mechanic saying it was a big deal but next time I see him I’ll ask,sounds complicated to me.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post Joey Mack Posted May 1, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted May 1, 2023 so , if you remove the bottom countershaft PTO/Bearing housing, the countershaft will drop... it can drop out of ''timing''.. that is why I said to use a bar through the side cover..as far as a 12 spd, my knowledge sucks.. it is still triple counter shaft, so I expect the same outcome if the lower countershaft is not supported before removing the lower Bearing/PTO out drive cover. It is not complicated, if you secure the countershaft.. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 5 minutes ago, MACKS said: When I had my drop axle installed we had to switch from a rear mount to side on a 12 speed trans,don’t remember my mechanic saying it was a big deal but next time I see him I’ll ask,sounds complicated to me.. 1= a 12 speed may be a different "animal" in terms of PTO internal drive options. would have to be or else the dump pto speeds depend om main in gear. 2=i more then likely confused the issue with improper explanation of early style pto change over Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Full Floater Posted May 1, 2023 Author Share Posted May 1, 2023 Thanks very much everyone. One more question, which perhaps has already been answered and I missed it? ....but is there an option for a married pump to mate to the rear mount existing pto? Since it sounds like a wise idea to leave the pto itself, alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 1, 2023 Share Posted May 1, 2023 jack daniels has some input here sorry(your not alone mowerman) ;; long day of air bag changing. correct title may be call an auxiliary side shaft . not counter shaft. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 On 4/30/2023 at 7:54 PM, Joey Mack said: I'm lost, Mech... I'm thinkin about 107"s are you talking TRD72's and such.. ?? I may need to back out, so I dont post wrong info.. think I know where confusion came to be. memory serves correctly; at 2am today staring at ceiling ;;the EARLY 6 speeds had roller bearing for three counter shafts , not bearing/ race combo .when removing lower rear cover for PTO installation there wasn't a bearing race in cover. just a "flat" aluminum cover. hardest part to pto install was turning small idler shaft. never had a situation with dropping countershaft and misaligning timing. spent many hrs in machine shop at Mack and watched the man I considered to be the Master builder. He always prefaced the importance of the timing. a rear 6 speed pto install was done in short amount of time then. the pto went up against bearing /held it in place. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted May 2, 2023 Share Posted May 2, 2023 That is before my time Mech.. I started out on X107 and 1070B.. then 200 series, and then 300 series. Bearing race is in the bearing cover, so pulling the cover allows the counter shaft to drop a little.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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