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Lining up a Superliner rescue.


Hans Remmers
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Your certainly heading in the right direction and doubt there is much wrong with the pump

Is it linkage back to the accelerator pedal or cable, any I have worked in Australia are linkage but have no idea about the U.S. 

I have had mine stick wide open but I reckon you would be all over a sticking linkage 

Good luck and keep us posted

Lucky to have some history in the old photo 

 

Paul

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1 hour ago, mrsmackpaul said:

Your certainly heading in the right direction and doubt there is much wrong with the pump

Is it linkage back to the accelerator pedal or cable, any I have worked in Australia are linkage but have no idea about the U.S. 

I have had mine stick wide open but I reckon you would be all over a sticking linkage 

Good luck and keep us posted

Lucky to have some history in the old photo 

 

Paul

No, its definitely inside the governor of the pump.  I'm working the levers directly on the pump.  As I said I've had the same basic problem with an ambac pump that sat after running biofuel.  All I had to do with that was remove the governor cover and manually operate the plunger while flushing the fuel side out with brake cleaner.  The Robert bosch is quite a bit different so I'm not sure if I can do the same as easily.

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Thanks for the info Vlad.  I managed to get it loaded and back home.  I've since spent a couple hours attempting to flush out the pump but haven't had any luck.  It shows some throttle response yard driving with the brakes still heavily dragging.  No load it continues to have a tendency to climb to 1800rpm and stay there.  Fuel shutoff is still unresponsive.  I've been fighting fuel leakage at the banjo fitting where the head return attaches.  I can't figure out why its leaking exactly but there appears to be a helicoil in the pump where the banjo bolt threads in and judging by the paint on the pump it looks like it'd been overhauled shortly before being parked.  I'm not sure how I'd feel about sending this pump out right now if a butcher has already been in it.

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Hi Hans, please can you tell us what year is it, engine, gearbox and diffs are in your Superliner. I see spyders on the rear and buds up front! It looks pretty good, original and complete. Appears it has sat quietly without anybody attacking it over the years. What is the frame and cabin condition, much rust? Your luck was meant to direct you to your new -old Mack.

That kinda happened to me 3 years ago. I saw an add for an old Supeliner here in Aussie land, called the vendor and in short he said that it was pretty rough for what I was looking for, but he said I have a Valueliner been sitting for 2 years since he got it and 6 years before with the previous owner, got it on a machinery trade. He had no use for it. It had all that I could have wanted and similar to yours in appearance about 98% original. I had a Mack man check it out and he gave his tick of approval. We negotiated a fair price and after 6 months we took it home.

And there was a another surprise that the vendor and I discovered later. Unknown to the vendor, his Superliner was the 1st Superliner built in Australia and from memory it had the original motor in it. It was in a sad condition. He found out after he sold it to a collector, who will restore it to original.

Good luck and enjoy your Superliner.

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1989 rw613.  e6-350 original not a maxidyne on the tag but maxidyne on the hood???  13 speed roadranger rto14613 appearing to be original equip, shift pattern on the dash and mack part # on tranny tag.  4.42 mack rears on 38k taperleaf.  Paint is poor, roof peeled, very minimal rust anywhere.  Scavengers did get to it at some point: stolen volt water oil gauge cluster, top dash panel where ashtray located, passenger seat and heater cover.  Will post some pics.

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The condition seems very promising and that rust at the back panel is nothing, will go away just by paing prep work. E6-350 must be Econodyne I belive and 13 speed tranny proofs that. If it's a Maxidyne it would be EM6-300 coupled to 5,6,7 or 8 speed long steps gearbox (the most probably).

Although the look of the fuel doesn't promize happiness it sounds strange you've got any throttle reaction while yard driving. Stuck plunger means stuck rack what further means no other plunger's turning and no change of fuel supply to the injectors. So you may be having issue of another kind. I would try making that injection line test as I described. A 5 minutes matter and you will more food for thought on further investigation.

I'm glad you purchased the truck anyway. It has good chances to became a beauty (or a beast?) after getting some love. 

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Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012

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Congrats on the new to you Superliner.  It looks like its in good hands and going to live again . 

The Maxidyne emblem is interesting on your Econodyne .  I find it interesting because we have discussed on BMT some trucks having Maxidyne engines with Econodyne emblems . Treat your Maxidyne emblem like gold. The can not be found . 

About your pump , I'm sure you know this , but on the very slim chance you didn't . There is external return spring .  If this is off , the throttle will run up itself . Very fast . lol  .   Don't ask me how I know this :whistling:

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Keith 

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Ok, so I no longer have any remnants of any robert bosch pumps to even dismantle.  I do however have a 1990 e6-350 ambac pump and I'm almost positive all the injector lines for it.  Has anybody swapped pump types?  Is the base timing the same?  Are the injectors even the same?  Maybe I should just bite the bullet and send this pump out but first I need to make sure the return fitting leak I'm fighting with isn't from the pump housing itself.  Like I said the housing has an obvious helicoil in it which really bugs me.

I never understood Mack jumping back and forth between ambac and robert bosch in from what I saw 1988-1990.  

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15 hours ago, Hans Remmers said:

Ok, so I no longer have any remnants of any robert bosch pumps to even dismantle.  I do however have a 1990 e6-350 ambac pump and I'm almost positive all the injector lines for it.  Has anybody swapped pump types?  Is the base timing the same?  Are the injectors even the same?  Maybe I should just bite the bullet and send this pump out but first I need to make sure the return fitting leak I'm fighting with isn't from the pump housing itself.  Like I said the housing has an obvious helicoil in it which really bugs me.

I never understood Mack jumping back and forth between ambac and robert bosch in from what I saw 1988-1990.  

The matter of the swap was discussed not long ago but no exact facts were stated as I remember. More questions. Speaking the helicoil I think bango bolt tights up with a cooper washer against the housing so a coil repair wouldn't be a way for a leak. If that's a taper thread fitting (and I remember there was at least one of those in the housing) it's another story. Anyway if the pump goes to (expensive) rebuild I would definitely get rid of all housing imperfections.

Mack could use two types of the pumps due to lack of supplys from one vendor involving another one. Or there might be another reason. To me it more seemed that pre-88 trucks had Ambac for the most cases and later production was equipped with Bosch. With some interference during 1987-1989:) BTW there were also pumps made by third producent in 80's years. I'm not ready to say the brand right at the moment but one of such units lays on one of my shelves.

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Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012

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5 hours ago, Vladislav said:

The matter of the swap was discussed not long ago but no exact facts were stated as I remember. More questions. Speaking the helicoil I think bango bolt tights up with a cooper washer against the housing so a coil repair wouldn't be a way for a leak. If that's a taper thread fitting (and I remember there was at least one of those in the housing) it's another story. Anyway if the pump goes to (expensive) rebuild I would definitely get rid of all housing imperfections.

Mack could use two types of the pumps due to lack of supplys from one vendor involving another one. Or there might be another reason. To me it more seemed that pre-88 trucks had Ambac for the most cases and later production was equipped with Bosch. With some interference during 1987-1989:) BTW there were also pumps made by third producent in 80's years. I'm not ready to say the brand right at the moment but one of such units lays on one of my shelves.

To the best of my recollection learning some things from an old mechanic my family had employed while in my early teens he told me the 3rd brand was UD?

I dug out my 1989 and 1990 tune up spec manuals and looked up available pump part numbers and configurations.  The different pumps used bosch and ambac nozzles as well to go with the pump respectively.  1989 had the option of bosch or ambac, 1990 only offered ambac.  Pump timing is 18 or 20 degrees depending on the brand of pump.

I've never gotten an exchange unit of a mack pump.  I've always gotten my same unit rebuilt or repaired.  I'll need to pressure test this pump to find the leak.  Its too hard to locate the leak with the engine running while having little to no rpm control.  It is a straight thread banjo bolt with copper washers.  The banjo fitting has 2 barbs that the plastic tubes attach to.  One going to the head and the other around front of the pump going to the check valve on the main return line.  This configuration must be designed to purge air from the top of the injection pump.

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18 hours ago, Hans Remmers said:

To the best of my recollection learning some things from an old mechanic my family had employed while in my early teens he told me the 3rd brand was UD?

I dug out my 1989 and 1990 tune up spec manuals and looked up available pump part numbers and configurations.  The different pumps used bosch and ambac nozzles as well to go with the pump respectively.  1989 had the option of bosch or ambac, 1990 only offered ambac.  Pump timing is 18 or 20 degrees depending on the brand of pump.

I've never gotten an exchange unit of a mack pump.  I've always gotten my same unit rebuilt or repaired.  I'll need to pressure test this pump to find the leak.  Its too hard to locate the leak with the engine running while having little to no rpm control.  It is a straight thread banjo bolt with copper washers.  The banjo fitting has 2 barbs that the plastic tubes attach to.  One going to the head and the other around front of the pump going to the check valve on the main return line.  This configuration must be designed to purge air from the top of the injection pump.

Now it seems the time is to me asking questions. I have a E6-350 4V in my R-model, made in the end of 1988 (1989 model year) and Ambac pump. Couldn't you tell me the part # of the injector nozzles mentioned in those tune up manuals? My pump tag tells 300 PLM450385A with Mack part # ?13GB5168P14. There's also a mentioning of 18 degrees so your info makes sence.

Good way to check out leaks in the fuel supply system along with simple and efficient priming is use of electric fuel pump. I have a few taken off 90's years Mercedes cars which are handy to use because they have alu housing with 2 fittings (or just tubes) to put a rubber hose onto. Two terminals to attach wires and you connect them straight to a 12V battery. In many cases I just take an external battery to not hook up to the truck. Usually I use such pump for a test fit when I want to start up an engine which was out of operation for a long time. You can use hand prime as supposed to be done but it takes time and the prime pump may be bad or constant airing up may be present. What I do is just hook two hoses to the injection pump, one with electric pump put in series and the other one to the return fitting on the injection pump. Both hoses go into a jerrycan with diesel or even a plastic bottle. Last time when I dealt with that DM and found out the fuel filters messed up I didn't waste time and just put a car filter in series with the electric pump. When you power up the pump it brings fuel into the system in a matter of a few seconds with a raw of air bubbles coming into the can. Plastic bottle is even better for that reason since you can see all the air and dirt going from the injection. And if any leaky points get presence they show out immediately under positive pressure made by electric pump. I than make a try to crank the engine with the wires still on the battery and if it fires up successfully I that reconnect the fuel system to its normal setup.

If the fitting is a straight bolt with cooper washers the latters seal the banjo around its cyrcle so the threads of the hole get inside them. And if a heli coil is used and it's not tight it would leak to inside the banjo making no issue. Figuring other possible reasons I met cracks where those small tubes come from the banjo barrel. Probably due to bending force during inaccurate removing of hoses. A friend of mine fought air in the system of his Mercedes car and ended up swapping that "banjo spider". Sure the cooper washers should be new or cooked up red hot prior the installation.

If you have a good Ambac pump for the similar engine swap seems like reasonable solution. I dug up a couple of photos I made when removed pumps off two engines. The darker pic is E6-350 4V with Ambac and the brighter is EM6-300 4V after I took off a Robert Bosch unit on the DM. As you can see the engine side is the same. So more a matter of injection lines and other attachments.

IMG_20210122_163544_resize.jpg

IMG_20210729_120157_resize.jpg

Никогда не бывает слишком много грузовиков! leversole 11.2012

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4 hours ago, Vladislav said:

Now it seems the time is to me asking questions. I have a E6-350 4V in my R-model, made in the end of 1988 (1989 model year) and Ambac pump. Couldn't you tell me the part # of the injector nozzles mentioned in those tune up manuals? My pump tag tells 300 PLM450385A with Mack part # ?13GB5168P14. There's also a mentioning of 18 degrees so your info makes sence.

Good way to check out leaks in the fuel supply system along with simple and efficient priming is use of electric fuel pump. I have a few taken off 90's years Mercedes cars which are handy to use because they have alu housing with 2 fittings (or just tubes) to put a rubber hose onto. Two terminals to attach wires and you connect them straight to a 12V battery. In many cases I just take an external battery to not hook up to the truck. Usually I use such pump for a test fit when I want to start up an engine which was out of operation for a long time. You can use hand prime as supposed to be done but it takes time and the prime pump may be bad or constant airing up may be present. What I do is just hook two hoses to the injection pump, one with electric pump put in series and the other one to the return fitting on the injection pump. Both hoses go into a jerrycan with diesel or even a plastic bottle. Last time when I dealt with that DM and found out the fuel filters messed up I didn't waste time and just put a car filter in series with the electric pump. When you power up the pump it brings fuel into the system in a matter of a few seconds with a raw of air bubbles coming into the can. Plastic bottle is even better for that reason since you can see all the air and dirt going from the injection. And if any leaky points get presence they show out immediately under positive pressure made by electric pump. I than make a try to crank the engine with the wires still on the battery and if it fires up successfully I that reconnect the fuel system to its normal setup.

If the fitting is a straight bolt with cooper washers the latters seal the banjo around its cyrcle so the threads of the hole get inside them. And if a heli coil is used and it's not tight it would leak to inside the banjo making no issue. Figuring other possible reasons I met cracks where those small tubes come from the banjo barrel. Probably due to bending force during inaccurate removing of hoses. A friend of mine fought air in the system of his Mercedes car and ended up swapping that "banjo spider". Sure the cooper washers should be new or cooked up red hot prior the installation.

If you have a good Ambac pump for the similar engine swap seems like reasonable solution. I dug up a couple of photos I made when removed pumps off two engines. The darker pic is E6-350 4V with Ambac and the brighter is EM6-300 4V after I took off a Robert Bosch unit on the DM. As you can see the engine side is the same. So more a matter of injection lines and other attachments.

IMG_20210122_163544_resize.jpg

IMG_20210729_120157_resize.jpg

I found a cross reference for your number to the 313gc5168p18 that appears in the 1989 tune up manual.  Calling for injector assembly 736gb259p10, nozzle 114gc39p21 ambac number nbh 770405

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