Maxidyne Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 No, not staring rumors, just exploring possibilities. With GM and Toyota nipping at their heels with new models, Ford needs to up their game in medium/heavy trucks- A 21st century conventional that can compete with the best Daimler, International, Paccar, and Volvo offer while providing outstanding value to the small business that just needs a class 4 straight truck. Cummins will be happy to provide power beyond the Powerstroke's capabilities as well as electrification options, in fact Cummin's new X12 needs a North American conventional cab home. Frame rails and the transmissions, suspensions, and axles that attach to them are available from multiple sources, no problem. But where do we source a cab? We need a cab that can accommodate the doghouse for any Cummins on highway engine, holes in the floor for gearshift levers, side windows big enough to give a full view of a west coast and spot mirrors, enough headroom for a tall driver on an air seat, and enough width for a DOT legal sleeper. And did I mention that Ford and every other major auto/truck maker want at least the 200,000 unit a year volume to keep a cab plant busy working two shifts, and are used to million units a year platforms like the F150/Excursion/Navigator and Focus/C class variants? The "Super Duty" F250-750 steel cab is still around, but two decades old already. The aluminum F150-350 cab is a possibility, but would all the modifications needed to make it as a heavy truck cab be worth it? The current Cargo cab is the right width for a vocational truck and the new wide H cab is on the way, but is either worth modifying into a conventional? Or should Ford design and tool up an all new cab, perhaps shared with another maker to keep the costs down? What's your opinion? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
james j neiweem Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 (edited) Who are the cab makers that are still in business? TCM, Mayflower? Edited July 17, 2018 by james j neiweem Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Red Horse Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 Maxi-I'm with you but I think this X12 is too big to stuff into a 750. I do believe its a 12 L designed to compete with 15L engines. What is crazy IMO is the fact that Ford is now using the old Super Duty steel cab for just 650 and 750. No clue as to where those cabs are stamped but they end up at the Ohio plant, along with the aluminum cab that is assembled on the 450-550 chassis that are also built there. All of this suggests to me-I hope- that there will ultimately be a new purpose built cab for 450-750 and select components will also be used to replace the E series cut aways that are still built at Ohio. MAYBE WE WILL SEE SOMETHING THAT WILL COME OUT WHEN THE NEW 7L+ V-8 gas engine comes out as that will be a home run for Ford as there is a big need for a low cost gasoline class 6/7 conventional. And while they are at it maybe time for a tandem as well. there are plenty of applications that need the GVW rating but just don't run the annual mileage to justify the diesel premium. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 51 minutes ago, james j neiweem said: Who are the cab makers that are still in business? TCM, Mayflower? Mayflower or whatever they're calling themselves this week is still around and making cabs for a couple makers, IIRC. But they'd expect Ford to pay for tooling up a cab, and that would be expensive on a per unit basis. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 39 minutes ago, Red Horse said: Maxi-I'm with you but I think this X12 is too big to stuff into a 750. I do believe its a 12 L designed to compete with 15L engines. What is crazy IMO is the fact that Ford is now using the old Super Duty steel cab for just 650 and 750. No clue as to where those cabs are stamped but they end up at the Ohio plant, along with the aluminum cab that is assembled on the 450-550 chassis that are also built there. All of this suggests to me-I hope- that there will ultimately be a new purpose built cab for 450-750 and select components will also be used to replace the E series cut aways that are still built at Ohio. MAYBE WE WILL SEE SOMETHING THAT WILL COME OUT WHEN THE NEW 7L+ V-8 gas engine comes out as that will be a home run for Ford as there is a big need for a low cost gasoline class 6/7 conventional. And while they are at it maybe time for a tandem as well. there are plenty of applications that need the GVW rating but just don't run the annual mileage to justify the diesel premium. Hopefully there will be a new medium/heavy cab, which is the key to building a new Ford medium/heavy truck. The X12 and X15 would need some doghouse as not all customers want a long conventional, and the L and even B series engines are fairly big too... Thus the F150 cab even with mods might be unacceptable. Thanks for pointing out the need for an E-series replacement- Even paired back to just cutaways and stripped chassis with no diesel option the E series is still selling 40,000 or so units a year, and that's a big help in reaching the 200,000 units a year needed to be viable. Ford also needs a parallel line of cabovers, suggesting that the Cargo or new H series wide cab might be the best basis for this new Ford heavy/medium truck line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadwayR Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 I think the whole point of the current F-650/750 was to offer a low cost limited option medium duty with an 'in house' powertrain. I think that Ford has been quite successful with this plan, they may not have the best medium duty truck but they have a good cost advantage over the competition. The 7X engine should be a welcome replacement for the old V-10. What is this 'H' cab? 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxidyne Posted July 17, 2018 Author Share Posted July 17, 2018 That's the new world market Ford cabover that Kevin's been writing about. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RoadwayR Posted July 17, 2018 Share Posted July 17, 2018 O.K., thanks. Pretty sure that's not coming here. Ford is rumored to be divesting out of some regions by the end of the year, South America has been mentioned. I wouldn't be surprised if the JV in Turkey is included as well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kscarbel2 Posted July 18, 2018 Share Posted July 18, 2018 Given Ford's continuously escalating investment in it's Turkish operation (Otosan) and likewise rewards, and Bill Ford's passionate personal connection with the Koc family (since 1928), I don't see any possibility of Ford bailing there. Brazil is a struggle, and always has been. VW is king. Ford, Iveco, Scania and Volvo do well.....all things considered. They've all enjoyed some great years, but the market and profits are currently down. The governments of both Brazil and South Africa are clueless about how to jump-start their faltering economies. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hayseed Posted July 20, 2018 Share Posted July 20, 2018 On 7/17/2018 at 10:51 PM, Maxidyne said: Or should Ford design and tool up an all new cab, They should Just get the HN80/Sterling Cab back off Daimler, I reckon.. But the Tooling would 've been melted down into Greatwall's or Hyundia's by now.. Quote "Be who you are and say what you feel...Because those that matter...don't mind...And those that mind....don't matter." - Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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