Mack Response To An International Review

[MackMann85]

This Q and A was on Macks website. Pretty interesting on what the public thinks of Internationals 2010 engine. What has everyone been hearing on 2010 International engine performance and fuel mileage (if you can find somebody with a real 2010 engine in there international!)

Q and A posted on Mack website found below:

Q. From Nathan, 5/9/2011: Who ever said ADVANCED EGR is the HASSLE FREE OPTION might get sued. Their PROSTAR TRUCK is nothing but a worthless piece of junk. We ran a lease fleet of 8 of this "hassle free" trucks and they have been nothing but trouble. First thing first, the MAXXFORCE 13 engine actually is weak compared to the 15 liter engines they try to compete with. No power to crest steep hills or grades, need to downshif a lot to go up hills, exhaust brakes on this engine???? seriously???? I need my COMPRESSION BRAKE or ENGINE RETARDER (JAKE BRAKE) so I can go downhill safelly!!! The exhaust brake on the MAXXFORCE 13 does not help at all with stoping performance. How our drivers hate to stop for PARKED REGENS as this engines require more of them than previous engines or competitor engines. When we got hypnitized by a NAVISTAR sales representative he told us we should focus on "POWER, NOT ENGINE SIZE" well they should focus on not making a 13 liter engine try to behave like a 15 liter engine. ADVANCED EGR is full of HASSLES and complicated mantainance. Boy I know some acid levels of NOx byproducts can build up on their "in-cylinder solution" making it ideal for cylinder protussion and corrotion. Max MPG we got fully loaded with whimpy LACKSFORCE 13???? 4.5 MILES TO A GALON. Why they talk about FLUID ECONOMY when they run their fake TESTS???? IS FUEL ECONOMY and their ADVANCED EGR solution consumes more DIESEL than a SCR DIESEL / DEF combined competitor engine. Why CUMMINS jump out of the ADVANCED EGR wagon???? The best part is that our lease with them will end soon and we will never look back again.

A. Wow Nate! Good thing these e-mails are anonymous, as there might have been a Warrenville thug at your front door! And here I thought I was the only one that could wade through all that marketing "fertilizer" that has been spewed forth.

It is unfortunate that your company has had the issues that you outline. Even though they are direct competition, when customers suffer, we all suffer, which I personally don't appreciate.

As far as engine size (displacement) goes, that is really not a determining factor. 20 years ago, the big gun at Mack was our E9-500 which made 500 HP and 1650# of torque out of a 998 cubic inch (~16L) engine. Now I can supply 505 HP and 1760# from an ultra clean engine! The feedback from customers is excellent. Back to the MF -- I have said all along that when you have no, or very little, fresh air in cylinder you have no way to accomplish efficient combustion, which simply means no power, as you experienced. A recent trucking editor noted when driving the MF there was substantial throttle input required on a flat road, which does not lend itself well at all to good fuel economy.

I have heard that their engine brake is every bit as effective as rolling down your window and cupping your hand in the airstream.

Parked regens? Hmm, we have all but eliminated any active DPF regen events from the Mack ClearTech. I've looked at a lot of MP7 and MP8 engines in customer service and the number of system demands for an active regen can be counted on one hand without needing your thumb. This is over hundreds of vehicles, each with hundreds of thousands of miles.

Internal component corrosion could certainly be a concern. They currently use a heat mode to dry out collected condensation in the air system. You can remove the moisture, but cannot remove sulfuric acid buildup. We shall just have to wait and see.

"Lacks-Force?" I've heard them called all kinds of different names -- like MaxxiPillar for the Cat truck version -- but that one's a first!

The Cummins folks are definitely not stupid. It took real guts and good business sense to realize this technology would not work.

When the lease is up, give me a call and let's see what we can do.

[ThaddeusW]

I have heard that their engine brake is every bit as effective as rolling down your window and cupping your hand in the airstream.

LOL!

Interesting to see that IH invested in an epic fail of an emissions system. Here I was thinking, no they cant be that stupid, they must have an ace up their sleeve somewhere! Looks like I was wrong. Its funny too how they paired up with CAT for a big bore engine. The same company who was fined millions and whos reputation went down the bowl because of another failed emissions idea, ACERT. You would think CAT would be like: "hey guys, we tried doing some crazy emissions stuff around 2002-2004, thought it was pretty sweet but we got kicked in the balls."

If IH is really partnered up with MAN I hope they have an SCR backup, MAN does.

[rhasler]

heh heh, Lacks-Force...

[vision386]

We have an owner/operator leased on with us that runs this setup in his Farmall,he loves the truck (2011 Prostar) but hates the engine,says he wishes he never got talked into it! calls it a "maxx- FARCE" engine! his biggest complaint (other than the lack of power) is also with the engine retarder (or lack there-of) he tells me retarder/slowing power is damn near non-existant! and no-one seems to want to stand behing their product!..........Mark

[Rob]

I've wondered if any of the owner/operators purchasing the "high end" type of trucks would be willing to pay the upcharge for an engine that did not meet current tier level emmisions? This could be a $5000.00 premium but if it kept the truck on the road without all the problems, would be worth the expense.

Rob

[Mackpro]

IH does have a back up plan. They bought an emission reduction company that is working with a soild form of DEF (diesel exhaust fulid "urea"). This could be better that the current SCR system that everyone else is using. One small solid block of their "urea" equals 17 gal of our DEF and with a better shelf life and easier storage options. On the other had I worked on a brand new 2012 CXU MP7 395HP the other day, It was an ADM truck and the driver loved it, 7.5 MPG ( and gets better as it gets broken it) and plenty on power so says the driver (who is an old school driver from the 70's). He says the sister truck to his is getting into the 8 MPG range. It only had 20,000 miles on it but the factory forgot to zip tie a wiring harness and it got up against the DPF and got melted, easy fix and he was back on the road that same day. Had a Mack Engineer at our shop for a few days this week and got lots of cool info on improvements on MP engines that we cant see. They have been working non-stop on fixing issuses the we sometimes dont see.

[GearheadGrrrl]

That pretty much agrees with what I've been hearing about the LaxxForce. My neighbor is a semi retired truck mechanic who just gave up a job at a mixed Navistar/Freightliner fleet. He tells me the Freightliner Cascadias are much easier to work on that the Prostars despite the Cascadias having SCR.

[Lmackattack]

I was at the conexpo show a few years back when the Maxx force engine was first shown. I chatted with the sales rep a little and even he was wondering how it was going to perform. Heck you could not see the engine block with all the crap that was bolted onto it. It looked like it was from an alen space ship!

[ThaddeusW]

IH does have a back up plan. They bought an emission reduction company that is working with a soild form of DEF (diesel exhaust fulid "urea"). This could be better that the current SCR system that everyone else is using. One small solid block of their "urea" equals 17 gal of our DEF and with a better shelf life and easier storage options.

That is an interesting idea. Sounds like a cartridge type SCR system that can replace the DEF tank and injection system.

[james j neiweem]

IH does have a back up plan. They bought an emission reduction company that is working with a soild form of DEF (diesel exhaust fulid "urea"). This could be better that the current SCR system that everyone else is using. One small solid block of their "urea" equals 17 gal of our DEF and with a better shelf life and easier storage options. On the other had I worked on a brand new 2012 CXU MP7 395HP the other day, It was an ADM truck and the driver loved it, 7.5 MPG ( and gets better as it gets broken it) and plenty on power so says the driver (who is an old school driver from the 70's). He says the sister truck to his is getting into the 8 MPG range. It only had 20,000 miles on it but the factory forgot to zip tie a wiring harness and it got up against the DPF and got melted, easy fix and he was back on the road that same day. Had a Mack Engineer at our shop for a few days this week and got lots of cool info on improvements on MP engines that we cant see. They have been working non-stop on fixing issuses the we sometimes dont see.

From another sight (Hanks) Pitt-Ohio's new pinnacles with MP-7's are averaging 8 miles per gallon. That is am maze ing.

[mowerman]

theres a good reason,we call them cornbinders,lol they belong in the fields...bob