Some Pics Of The Rs

[bullhusk]

Explain how the Superliner started as an idea from Brockway. The picture Iv'e seen of the prototype Brockway looks nothing like the Superliner. Mack already had a long nose conventionals prior to superliner. Aka LT/B-71/73/R-700.

Just the facts printed on the Brockway web site, if you look at the Brockway proto-type tractor it looks just like a Superliner! I'm sure Mack did make some changes, but the fact is Mack had no truck on the drawing boards that looked like this one. An with all the R&D that Brockway put into this design? Mack was not going to scrap the idea. So AGAIN this is what the guys who worked at Brockway at that time tell us, the fact is Mack stole the idea from Brockway. An again I'm a Mack guy as well as a Brockway guy, but I agree with the Brockway guys on this one.

BULLHUSK

[Rob]

I'm quite certain Brockway was acquired by Mack for more than to just eliminate competition. The amount of R&D funds expended is great with any item leading to production. Mack as far as I know had nothing readily available with the large radiator needed to support 400+ hp that was in the future for truck builders from engine manufacturers. The R700 series of trucks would have needed the nose lengthened or modified to fit an appropriate radiator such as what the RW series ended up with.

I like Brockway also. Probably will end up with one to install my "spare" 1693TA into. They are extremely uncommon around here and may enlist some help to locate one in the future.

Rob

[Lmackattack]

I'm with bullhusk on this one. Heard and read all the same reports and saw a few pics of the prototype brockway that never entered production. The rw sure looks like it evolved from a brockway if you look at the pics.

[Lmackattack]

Ok I talked to the guy at mack tonight. Guys name is Mr Hall and showed him the pics that Mark and Rob had of the Purple RL700L. He said that that was the truck that he rembers. Mr Hall made a few calls and talked with a old friend that comfirmed It was delivered as a day cab and sent to double eagle for the 36" sleeper install. He does not recall when the sleeper was extended but after I showed him the diffrence he agreed that it was extended at some point. Anyways after the sleeper install it was sent to a shop in north western IL to get the fancy paint(think he said freeport IL?). when Bob put the finishing touches on the RL it made its way into overdrive mag and made it into a Shell Oil calendar. He said the truck had a Cat 169?.....what ever robs truck has... engine, riding on camelback rears on spokes. No air ride cab. Dident ask him about the transmission. Said Bob had the engine worked on by a guy in PA that was able to get about 550HP to the rear wheels. Mr Hall and Bob ran from Chicago to NJ hauling steel and recalls how Bob would let him get a run at the hills and then he would get passed like he was standing still. said after the truck was turned up the smoke between shifts was so heavy that it just fell out the stack to the ground. Bob won englishtown 3 years in a row with it. They would run with a guy in a KW with a KTA called (nickname was rubberband)this guy with the KW had 2 police scanners and radar front and rear. only other truck that compete with the RS. Mr hall said when they all met up he would just fall back knowing that the 2 hot shots were just going to have HP wars all the way to NJ and back. Mr hall just wanted to keep his licence.LOL Said that they put rods and mains in the cat every 100K just to be safe.

now the sad part. Bob past away when he was in his early 30s. the truck when to his step son to work on Bobs brothers farm in PA. thats when the engine had trouble and head came off. the Engine rusted and the engine was junk.Cab was rotted out bad as well from the east cost winters. I know 2 guys that have pics of it at a scrap yard and will have to call them for pics.

Here is a twist. I showed Mr Hall a pic of this active ebay listing.... http://chicago.ebayc...uck/?ad=1274723

Told me that was Bobs old truck before he bought the Purple RL....

Trent

[vision386]

Hey Trent,thanks for all the effort tracking down this information,kinda' puts an end to a long search! i have been trying to find out what happened to this truck for a long time,real shame about the owner too,i was hoping i could track him down and kinda pick his brain about the particulars and specs on the truck.Guess when i do find a truck project to build,i'm going to have to "wing it" a little LOL! still like to find that bodyshop (if its even still around)get the paint codes for what they used to paint it,i really liked that paint job,always have and would like to duplicate it on my own truck sometime. I did know it was powered by a 1693-TA CAT,just never knew what trans was behind it,of course if i do get to build a similar tractor it will be all Mack,as a matter or personal preference,not historically accurate. Air-ride too,my backs not 21 anymore! LOL! i also knew about him (Bob) winning at Englishtown,thats where i took the few pictures i have of the truck,there is also supposed to be a picture of it in one of the books about Macks,but i havent found out which one but will keep looking. i did'nt know about the calender either,maybe can track one down on Ebay or somewhere. What i really need is a few more good pictures to work from,with some detail of the paint,it was pretty un-usual,with some fogged in pinstripe/separation lines (think 1970's panel paint) which is hard to see in the pictures i have,but not terribly hard to duplicate with an air-brush...........Thanks again! Mark

[Lmackattack]

glad to help mark. If you got any questions I can always ask him. If anything the mack museum should be able to help as I think Rob said there were only a few built?

Little more to the story with Mr Hall. He had ordered a RW in 1977? (what ever the first year for them was) this was before he saw how nice Bobs truck came out. He then cancled the order because he thought about it again and decided to try for a Westcost mack RS. After much frustration he had to continue the RW order as mack refused to build just one last RS one for him. So he said he ended up with one of the first RW east of the mississippi. He commented that he has that shell calendar at home and that one of the pics you had was the same pic...

[rhasler]

That's some good detective work there Trent. Was it an RS or an RL? If you can find out the serial number by any chance I can probably find out what the specifics of the chassis were. What you found out about the suspension and sleeper reinforce what I have seen/been able to figure out about what the truck likely had when built.

[Lmackattack]

Rhasler....If rob sees this he will likely have a vin number to start with. I do know It was a RL700L... Or if someone that knows what a RL with a 1693 cat is, thats a start. I think Rob said only 3-5 were made?? if rob has one we can eliminate that one...

Mr Hall thinks it was sold out of his Dealer. Northern IL mack, Grays lake IL. its the closest dealer to Round lake IL

Trent

[rhasler]

Rob's truck is RL755LST 35359, there was another truck ordered on the same GSO, 35358. I think that was the one that was wrecked, Rob should be able to clarify that. I'll give it a look and see what else I can find.

[Rob]

Hi there. Yes my truck is RL755LST35359. I don't know the serial number of the wrecked truck but I've been told mine, and it, were sisters. I have not been able to definitively prove it however. All research done by myself, Rhasler, two Mack dealerships, and Mr. Snowey Doe, (RIP) of the Mack museum indicate there were only two RL755L series trucks produced. I do have newspaper photostat copies from a southern Illinois newspaper of the wreck of the other truck in 1979. This is really all I've had to go on.

I've spoken with a couple of people that knew Mr. Bob Eckstein when he operated the truck we all are seeking information to. I was told it was the final RL755LST built by a guy that knew him well. He is the person that told me the engine was a "hopped up" 1693TA, with a 13 speed Fuller trans on Neway air ride rears. It, like mine, was on drive spokes with disc aluminum wheels up front. Nobody has been able to prove this truck was actually built as an RL yet one of the photos I snatched from a 1983 "Overdrive" magazine rather clearly shows RL-700-L die cast emblems on the hood as mine does. Not once was it mentioned he had passed; even when I mentioned I would like to locate him. At the time I did not know about there being two different sleepers on the truck so didn't ask about that. I was told he, (Mr. Eckstein) was a steel hauler, and another party told me the truck also worked a dry van at times.

I'm going to be in the Chicagoland area all next week attending training classes. I'd like to stop in and "chat" with the gent if I can get the name.

Rob

[Lmackattack]

good work Rhasler, this is like an easter egg hunt...such a shame how it ended up but would be cool to see all the specs of it. How did the numbers sequence? For instance my Vin is RS786LST32474...how do I know what number my truck is in the build? and did each model get a diffrent sequence? For example does a RS786 and RL755 fall into the same build sequence numbers?

Trent

[Lmackattack]

If you look at the Ebay listing it says Bobs first truck 1972 model was on Air ride and budds. the "309" was camelback and spoke rears with budd fronts. Mr Hall knows the person that is listing it.

[rhasler]

OK, I've found four RL755LST chassis in addition to Rob's. They are as follows:

RL755LST 011230 Built 4/28/72 CA114 Cab, RTO12513 Transmission, 1693TA Engine, RSA380 Rear Suspension

RL755LST 028683 Built 9/19/75 CAL49 Cab, RTO12513 Transmission, 1693 Engine, Camelback Rear suspension, 9.59 Ratio (I think there's a typo in this information, the rear axle says it's a 4.50 ratio, the front says 9.59) Mack 92/93 Rear Drive Axle

RL755LST 035358 Built 8/26/77 (Built on the same GSO as Rob's) CAL49 Cab, RTO12513 Transmission, 1693 Engine, Camelback Rear Suspension, 4.17 Ratio Mack 92/93 Rear Drive Axle

RL755LST 035443 Built 7/19/77 CAL49 Cab, RTO12513 Transmission, 1693 Engine, RSA380 Rear Suspension, SSHD Drive Axle

Does anyone know for sure that this truck had aluminum frame rails?

[Lmackattack]

Mr Hall had made a comment that it had alum rails...also said it was built as a Day cab if that matters...

[rhasler]

Mr Hall had made a comment that it had alum rails...also said it was built as a Day cab if that matters...

All of the records I've looked at show day cabs. Being that it had aluminum rails, I would say it's safe to say that it was a 755LST, whether an RL or an RS.

[rhasler]

Another one:

RL755LST 011231 Built 5/1/72 RTO12513 Transmission, 1693TA Engine, RSA380 Rear Suspension, 4.62 SSHD Rear Drive Axles

I think this truck and 011230 were ordered on the same GSO, they both have 11GB91068P49.

Rob's truck and RL755LST 35358 have 11GB91253P5

[Lmackattack]

I think the first truck that this guy had ordered was with a 290 cat? and it was a 72 steel dash cab. the later RL had the +3 cab and would think it would have been a mid-late 70s model? I think late 77 was the last year for building the RS/RL and all of them were sold by mid 78. Mr Hall had to get a RW because they would not build him one in late 77. this tells me that it was 73-76 that this Truck would have been built? but im going off other peoples recolection from 30 years ago LOL.

[David]

It's really weird that this new find pops up for sale (like a ghost) just when you guys are doing this research.

[vision386]

I think the first truck that this guy had ordered was with a 290 cat? and it was a 72 steel dash cab. the later RL had the +3 cab and would think it would have been a mid-late 70s model? I think late 77 was the last year for building the RS/RL and all of them were sold by mid 78. Mr Hall had to get a RW because they would not build him one in late 77. this tells me that it was 73-76 that this Truck would have been built? but im going off other peoples recolection from 30 years ago LOL.

I got to look inside the truck back when i took the pictures,it was definately a +3 cab with the late model dash and "western interior" it was the oxblood color (dark red). I believe the first picture i took with the single sleeper was in 1977,not sure about the later ones with the larger sleeper mid eighties i suspect,only thing i can recall specifically about the interior,was that the controls/housing for the Kysor roof mount A/C unit had been taken apart and chromed,same with the handle/door for the factory rooftop vent,and it looked sharp! quite the mystery this truck seems to be! maybe if we can narrow it down,i will get with the Mack museum and see what i can find out.....................Mark

[james j neiweem]

Just the facts printed on the Brockway web site, if you look at the Brockway proto-type tractor it looks just like a Superliner! I'm sure Mack did make some changes, but the fact is Mack had no truck on the drawing boards that looked like this one. An with all the R&D that Brockway put into this design? Mack was not going to scrap the idea. So AGAIN this is what the guys who worked at Brockway at that time tell us, the fact is Mack stole the idea from Brockway. An again I'm a Mack guy as well as a Brockway guy, but I agree with the Brockway guys on this one.

BULLHUSK

I went to the Brockway web sight and found the seven pictures of the Brockway Superliner. I don't see any resemblance at all to the Mack Superliner except for the CA47 cab. Maybee I am looking at the wrong prototype. I must admit that it seems as though Mack may have pilfered the Superliner name. Then again Mack used the liner term long before Brockway. They used to call the early H models highliners. I think the liner term even preceded freightliner.

[rhasler]

Just a thought, but has anyone got any idea where and under what name this truck was originally registered? Maybe the DMV would be able to provide a serial number.

[Lmackattack]

Next time Im at mack I will ask Mr Hall if he knows the last 5 of the vin...I know IL is a PITA to get old 13 digit vins looked up. I tried looking for my dads truck and never got any info out of them...

[DCR]

How safe is it to buy a truck that has sat for 15 years? I am referring to the R Model that is listed on Ebay. I am no mechanic but I would think that all rubber, tires, hoses, air springs, fuel lines, brake lines, air chambers, etc. would have to be replaced due to dry rot and rust. Also, what condition can the drive train be in after not being driven for 15 years? Would the engine, tranny and rear end have to be rebuilt/replaced? These are just the natural deterioration of the components. Then you have the critters that have called it home for that period of time.

When I bought my B Model a lot of these items had already been replaced/repaired but it is a 1958 vs a 1972 and it had been used as a part-time working dump truck.

Edited April 29, 2011 by DCR

[vision386]

Just a thought, but has anyone got any idea where and under what name this truck was originally registered? Maybe the DMV would be able to provide a serial number.

Best i can tell,the truck was originally registered to Robert (bob) Eckstein Round Lake Beach,IL i tried the DMV as well,no help at all there. I tried peopleseach,just about all i could think of,but if he has passed,that would explain a lot. Tried a lot of the local Mack dealers in the area as well,all i got was the old "our records don't go back that far" routine. I had just about exausted everything i could think of,which is how i happened on Bigmacktrucks.com,i figuered if anyone knew anything about this truck,it would be on here!..................Mark

[rhasler]

I did a little more research this morning but was unable to find anymore RL755LST chassis. I did find 31 different RS755LST chassis listings (there were 3 different 11GB arrangements encompassing these 31 trucks). I will continue checking what I can with the resources I can to try to isolate the VIN/serial number for this truck. It's kind of interesting how all of this relate back to Rob's truck.

I did stumble upon an interesting tidbit this morning. I found an 11GB number for the ET1005 (E9 Prototype). I think BMT member Heavy Hauler has some pictures in his gallery of this engine. I found 4 chassis that it was installed in: An F735ST serial #1008, 2 WS735LST serial #'s 32513 and 32337, and an R735S serial #1003.