fjh

from what I hear the low RPM engines were an attempt to get better MPG. the whole power band was lowered a few hundreed RPM. I see alot of these trucks with 2060 2070 2080 transmissions.

I belive the internals of both the low and normal RPM engines are the same. If anything mechanical and pump timing and possibly the cam may be a little diffrent?? Regardless to get 2100 RPM you simply have the pump reworked to a standard maxidyne spec. you will still have plenty good low RPM torqe and have about a 10 MPH faster top end. the only down side when the pump is reworked for more RPMS and normal torqe range is that the gearing of the truck will now put the RPMs a little low for pulling in top gear at 55MPH it will sometimes feel that its lugging when at 1400RPM. IMO the normal RPM Maxidynes seam to like 1800 for highway cruising.

Trent

Trent the governer levers inside the pump differ!The pump was basicly the same except for this cam and engine parts were the same turbo was lkly diffrent.

My brother had a dozer that he repower with a 5.9 cummins so he said that where he got it they told him they could not start it. so he said i fix. He pulled the pump and sent it to pump shop and it was found to be ok. He installed and still no start. He pull pump again and said check it out some more. This time he got a paint job and a bill cause they had over looked some thing. I had told him to tell the man that was to work on it to check the timing . It was a 7100 p pump.He install and no start. He pulled engine because it was easy and brought to me. We check and by pulling the injectors and i connected one to the # 1 fuel line and as we turn it over it was injecting fuel on the bottom of the stroke. I told him to pull and take back and to tell the same man that checked the pump timing to call. He never did call but told my brother that the tone wheel did slip. That was hard for them to exsplain why he had it in there 2 times and never checked the timing to the cpl. That is the first thing that should have been done.

We had our local pump guy come over and bring his plunger tool over and he reset it with that after we got it to the shop it was in a remote location at the time and had very little for toolage, He said i was off by only 2 degrees not bad for a shot in the dark! i was kind a strutin about over that one!Ya get lucky some times so ya got to make hay while the sun shines!To bad it don't happen more often.

Glad Tony Came back At the garage!They would hav lost a true talent had he stayed away

Both ways of timing is great and the end is the same the only thing with the hipressure pump way is it is and so many guys is not clean with the other way of timing and will get dirt in the fuel system. But the end will be the same. For many years that is the way mack recomened to time and that was called port closing by Bosch. The electric pump came out in about 79 or 80 and was so simple for some but we all dont got one.That is the same way with timing the robert Bosch pump you can use the light or buzzer or you can use the little plastic indicator like they had years ago and now cummins is using it on the 5.9 and 8.3 engine. The light is better only because the plastic indicator can break easy and it is about 70.00 to by. The one thing you need to remember about the electric pump is if you have a barrel and plunger that has a lot of wear on it it will take along time to shut off and that could cause you to set it too slow on the timing. glenn

For me its easier to pull out my blow tube and pop out the delivery vale than to drag the dam machine out of moth balls!The light thing is ok as long as the tone wheel hasent sliped I had that once I ended up turning the pump by hand till I could see the fuel just start to rise on no 1 cyl slamed the pump gear back in with the engine on the timng mark and it ran fine!

As would I, FJH. High pressure test equipment need periodic recalibration to be accurate. Too much trust is placed into a tool without regard to it's accuracy many times. Example: How many mechanics send their torque wrenches in for calibration over it's life cycle?

My eyeballs do not require outside calibration to see what is right and not. In this fuel example, if fuel is flowing from the missing delivery valve in the injection pump, and your timing pointer is indicating correct reference, something else needs adjusted. This is where the round cover on the timing cover and the bolts through the gear come into play! When the diesel fuel stops flowing at the instant the pointer is referenced to the correct marking on the harmonic balancer, the engine is in time.

I would still send the pump and injectors into a shop for calibration together. The injectors will come back marked with which cylinder they are to be installed into, (usually). This is because each individual plunger and barrel inside the pump housing is adjustable for stoke output. As the plungers and barrels wear from usage, they deliver less output. This can be adjusted by loosening lockscrews holding the discharge adjustment. the barrel is then rotated and calibrated for a specific "pump shot" at a predetermined pressure within the adjustment range.

What I'm saying here is that you know little about the pump you have now installed. It is not calibrated for the injection nozzels it is running. You stand a chance of burning, or washing the engine and neither is what you want to do!

It is great you were able to determine the original pump was bad and that you had a spare part.

If we can help further don't hesitate to ask.

Rob

Rob amen to that bro!

good luck with it 13

The problem with sending the pump out is that alot of guys hestate to chuck up old pumps to there equipment for fear of contamination of their equipment! Id be hesitant too!Sounds as thou this a play truck so as long as it runs what the hey!

Back to the shop again hope this works

I have another pump that came with truck all the delivery valves are out of are the as easy changing 123? if so i will throw that pump in

thanks again

Nope wouldn't do that!Like Rob said TOOOO iffy!Check what you have first!

I could be full blawhoee but what you discribe soundslike a timing issue

Having said that !! I have never seen an engine like this just start puffing out gray smoke !Its usually a gradual thing if a fuel pump fails. or a miss on one cyl or quits all together.Its kind of a mistery problem you have here.Turbo OK???!

Is this not referred to as "spill port timing" any longer?

Rob

Rob I guess that is what you could call it!

We have a rarly used hi preasure timer at work that requires just hooking it to the inlet and pluging off the outlet it builds enough preasure to lift the delivery valves off the seats!I much rather use the above method my self!

Great those we can deal with i was afraid we had lost a piston or something!?!

Motor has great compression but the soot now makes since.

thank you

you have a real strange problem here alright!

I still beleive you got a timing or pump problem!Just by your discription of what happened at the start!

To check the timing set the engine on valves rocking on #6( valves closed on #No 1 )pull the engine up to apox 30 degrees on the flywheel or damper pointer marks.remove #1 delivery valve with 11/4 1 5/16 or 1 3/8 12 point wrench on the big nut on take it out remove the spring and valve and reinstall the nut just snug .get some hose to fit the inlet fitting hook it on and blow into the tube fuel / air will flow from #no one keep blowing and have somone slowly turn the engine till the flow stops right where the flow stops is where it is timed.BE sure that the fuel stop is full on and the throtle is at idle for this!

this will rule out the timing thing I got in my brain anyway!

The bearings in the fuel pump may be on their way out causeing the timing to be all over the place.

For the symtoms you have I would suspect to see it at near zero for timing ,the engine should be at somwhere between 15 - 24

go two years newer you will encounter less problems,You will still be stuck with a short list of on going issues!Exhast gaskets every year at least cracking exhast manifolds and cracking turbos cracking egr coolers yada yada All Heat related injurys.The base engine is good the rest of the junk bolted to it

how ever?????????????????????????////

The pump coupling is or should be keyed to the pump shaft DO NOT remove the little round front cover

in front of the engine and tamper with any bolts if you want to preserve your timimg ,just undo the the three that hold the pump to the block as mentioned the splined coupling has a dowel! the pump will only go in one way easily DON't FORCE it or try pulling it in with the bolts! Apon reassembly assemble with a new gasket the gasket will come with 2 holes in it one big one small!Cut the gasket from the outside of the big hole to the outside of the small oil return hole at the bottom both sides and remove the v shaped peice this will put a stop to any possible oil leaks at the gasket site!DO NOT JUST USE silicone! You'll hate yourself.

Is a '72 R400 suitable for a Jake Brake. What would be needed to install a Jake?

What sise is the engine? 237?

AMBAC for sure then. Thanks alot!!

Try to get her fired today and all i got was thick gray smoke like an old wood burner so thick it made the shop as dark as night.

Have you checked the turbo and the air cleaner plumbing for birds nests?

remove the air intake from the inlet manifold and try to start it! IF that don,t do it then,

I got a feeling your pump drive coupling may have broken and its now out of time.

You have smoke that tells me you ar getting some fuel, and no air Or poorly timed fuel.

I have seen the drive couplings break Usually its clean and wont turn the pump but it may be ragged enough to turn the pump in ths case.

this is AMBAC

http://www.adiesel.us/pumps.php

Robert bosch

Simular to this

http://www.alldiesel.com/bosch_pump.htm

Heading back to shop to try these tips , will post udates thanks

Good Luck.

If these don't help !Could you supply me with the type of fuel injection pump IE: american bosch(AMBAC)

Or robert bosch

no engine brake

I would by pass the primary filter and run from a clean

pail of fuel Also remove and check the secondary filter for poor fuel quality.Also

If this truck is equiped with a tack drive mounted transfer pump they were a pain!

Hello all new here! from what i have read this site seems to the most knowledgeable site out here!!

On to the problem...

I bought a 81 RS 600 2v 350 twin stick, Truck ran great got it home drove it a few times and it seem to start miss firing then blowing white/gray smoke. smell of raw diesel fuel and died Can restart with Starter fluid and it idles really fast no more miss firing but is just dumping in fuel.

I thought it might be a lost injection tip, pulled all 6 all looked fine checked rack and valves all look to be it order.

I did notice that in the valve train there appears to be a lot of soot in the oil between 2&3 cylinder and only there?!?

Any help would be great

Was hoping to let wife pull truck in upcoming truck pull

Is the truck engine brake equiped??

Could be sticking on!

Hello all. I'm new to the Mack thing. I just purchased a 2000 Mack, CX618. It has a Mack 460 hp engine, 13sp Eaton with 3.70 rears. What is the optimum high idle. My manual says 1200 to warm the truck up but I'm looking to know for when sleeping for the least amount of wear and tear when idling is necessary. Thank you for any replies.

No idle is best, but if you got to 1200 is the number!

I have seen a few mid 70s R700s with V8 detroits but never any superliners I have heard there were a few made. Most superliners I see have the std mack 6 or v8 mack, a few with cats and alot with BCcummins

Trent

As trent has spoke there were a few 700s with cat cummins and detroit.there were some superliners born with cats and the odd kt cummins very few and far between!I Also have never seen a leaker in one.

I must've misunderstood...the 'john deere' start is normal then. My bad.

Yup!

thanks for your help. The one they put in first had a hinge with a roll pin,And i don't think they put any grease on it.

Most poeple don't grease em this is an observation out of frustration after a whole summer two years back where we had a rash of clutch brake failures using 4 diffrent styles of brakes the hinge type would fall out after a month the babcock steel ones would shear or break the tabs even set a the very bottom of the stroke the eaton one would break in two with out grease my solution was grease ,and has put a stop to the failures.Some of these failures I beleive were atributed to vibration from the engine or clutch ,some from driver error.either way the grease and the light weight eaton brake was the fix be it right or wrong,

Just somthing folks can try if their having problems like this.

I don't want to hijack the topic, but could you elaborate on this econovance doodad? My truck does that.

Not really a hyjack this is an old post.

the econoance is mounted in front of the fuel pump!

the fuel pump is set at say 6 degrees static timing when the engine starts and until oil preasure is achieved most engines will sputter and smoke blu because the engine needs at least 12 degrees to run clean and corectly.once the oil preasure is up the the econovnce solnoid uses the the preasure to advance the timing to 12 and beyond, what ever the puter deams nessary to run cleanly and for desent power,to a max of 22 to 24 degrees.

A compression check of the engine is in order. A lot can be learned from this as to overall condition of engine.

Rob

liner orings get an oil sample done quick

Or when the engine is cold loosen the drain plug and check for water in the bottom of the pan!

what would cause a clutch brake to brake.I had one put in my 12speed.used it about 8 hours started going down the road with a load heard a couple of snaps coudn't see anything behind me so i carried on.but when i stopped i found out what that was.I usally don't use the clutch to shift so had me woundering what might cause it to brake .It was a 2 piece.they set the clutch up to but i found it was kind of jumpy in first?

depending on what type was used! The two peice type that are hinged just fall apart on their own somtimes!The two peice with pins and the eaton brake the only things that will usually break these is over adjusted clutch brake or pushed to the floor while rolling in gear!If you have another installed I suggest the use of the eaton brake slathered in grease or a pin type babcock brake also slathered in grease on assembly!

the grease will help prevent breakage.I like the eaton brake my self as we have had alot of failures with all of the others greased or not!

He may look at the one fuller used on the older roadranger that went on the pto pad that contacted the pto gear.

Also sum of the older tranys had a countershaft mounted brake.

Even if the trans is out, I always put a 2 piece clutch brake in.

Makes it easier "next time" someone f***s one up.

Amen to that!

If you use this one http://shop.vendio.com/taurussupply/item/9...6/?s=1214821969

slather it in grease and set the clutchbrake right at the floor and it will serv you well!

there are others out there babcock and several others make them but if the engine dosnt run smooth the tabs break off in a short while you have nothing again.for best results use grease on those too!We had a real run on the heavy metal brakes last year so I tend to promote the eaton brake.

Just an observation!

Hi Herb, that is exactly what I did. I only checked the top compartment as the oil was running from the thru shaft yolk seal again. The power divider and lower bowl are both right to the top.

I do have a bit of slop in the front driveshaft slip splines, and a little in the second joint. What series of driveline would this be with the cast bolt through caps? The rear driveshaft uses 1710 full rounds, but the first shaft is quite a bit larger.

Thanks,

Rob

In my area the 417/ 442 are not a long lived ratios they tend to give out soon depending on aplication!

the thru shaft bearing is easy to change But pull the side cover and have a real close look at the top gear set before ya just asume its the bearing!And as stated the top end seeks its own level it was not low 1 to two knuckles down is common!