doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 10 hours ago, skydawg said: I didn`t gat any grease seals in the kit.I don`t see any in the Figure 9-9 pic that DCW posted.Can I re-use the old ones if I have them? If I spread the bushing seams by hand,they fit over the pins,but I`d think they would need reaming when installed in the knuckle,since they`re a no go over the pins when the seam is tight. That's really odd. Never seen a split bushing that needed to be reamed. JoJo, Mecho? Sound odd to you? Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydawg Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 I hope you`re right,DCW....this is all new to me,I don`t know squat. Mecho,the holes in the bushings are not in the center.Is there a shoulder inside the knuckle for each bushing to seat against? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 possibly like so many products todays world there are cut backs on the seal kits also.to save money on production , manufactures are saying use silicone sealant ?? nothing surprises me any more with the production cuts on quality for C E O bonus checks. old seals are usable I'd reinstall; better then nothing. a spindle grease seal not total technical as an engine oil seal. or it's a case of ="oh, you want seals tooo, those are extra"!! for bushing install I don't know of a shoulder it's a matter of "eye-ball" the bushing to the spindle making sure finished install the holes will line up. the trials and errors of being a mechanic. at least with this project if the holes don't line up :(but we know they will) last resort remove zerk fitting and carefully drill through threads with a smaller drill into bushing then remove internal burrs. you have the technology so you won't be doing that set. and we are all going to be waiting for spindle picture showing the correctly installed bushing .😄 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 after bushing are installed, take a grease gun and pump a couple of shots of grease through the zerks. which should be done every time ; you can see grease come through bushing it's good to go . clean paint stick or equivalent works to put a coating of grease on new bushings before reinstall of pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 23 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: possibly like so many products todays world there are cut backs on the seal kits also.to save money on production , manufactures are saying use silicone sealant ?? nothing surprises me any more with the production cuts on quality for C E O bonus checks. old seals are usable I'd reinstall; better then nothing. a spindle grease seal not total technical as an engine oil seal. or it's a case of ="oh, you want seals tooo, those are extra"!! for bushing install I don't know of a shoulder it's a matter of "eye-ball" the bushing to the spindle making sure finished install the holes will line up. the trials and errors of being a mechanic. at least with this project if the holes don't line up :(but we know they will) last resort remove zerk fitting and carefully drill through threads with a smaller drill into bushing then remove internal burrs. you have the technology so you won't be doing that set. and we are all going to be waiting for spindle picture showing the correctly installed bushing .😄 What do you think about the bushings apparently NOT slipping onto the pins? I've never seen a reamed split bushing. Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 As far as reaming newer style bushings. I never had too. Only had to de- burr the leading edge after installing it. And as far as splits, what I've seen is an interlocked seamlike puzzle pieces. Those were the ones with the yellow nylon coating inside. I don't know why there aren't new seals. If you can get the old ones out, you can take them to ''allied bearing'' to get them matched up. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydawg Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 The grease "grooves" in the bushing don`t go all the way to the top and bottom,so it seems like grease wouldn`t be able to exit the bushing,even without seals? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 9 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: As far as reaming newer style bushings. I never had too. Only had to de- burr the leading edge after installing it. And as far as splits, what I've seen is an interlocked seamlike puzzle pieces. Those were the ones with the yellow nylon coating inside. I don't know why there aren't new seals. If you can get the old ones out, you can take them to ''allied bearing'' to get them matched up. Exactly what I have seen. Not sure why the ones he has won't slip onto the pins. Maybe out-of-round while in the free state? Is it possible they sent him mismatched parts? Wish we were all in one place so we could talk about it! 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydawg Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 Here are pics of a bushing on and off the kingpin,you can see the spread in the seam needed to fit over the pin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydawg Posted August 31, 2023 Author Share Posted August 31, 2023 So when that seam closes when installed in the knuckle,there`s no way the pin will fit w/out reaming. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 You make a good point, and why does the pin look straight and not tapered? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Something is definitely not right here. Those types of bushings are typically not reamed. They usually have a thin layer of material on the inside that provides the wear surface. Reaming will remove that, and it will be steel-on-steel. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Something is definitely not adding up. Maybe Freightrain can offer some advice. I know he has done a B model set. 2 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 was the box opened and retaped when you got it. from pictures i'd say some one swapped parts. sad world today. go in to tractor supply for nut/bolt hardware ;plastic bags of quality bolts ripped open and left ; good hardware thrown in to by the pound bag. as stated not under standing straight pin 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 7 hours ago, skydawg said: The grease "grooves" in the bushing don`t go all the way to the top and bottom,so it seems like grease wouldn`t be able to exit the bushing,even without seals? grease might not exit bushings with out seals but you can bet your duppa the dirt/ grit will find it's way in 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 I wonder if there is a notch cut into the pin? like for a locking pin, like ive seen in light axels. more pics of the pin by itself would be good.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 based on memory (oh no not that ) the straight pins had the flat spot(notch) mid-way and a wedge pin threaded on one end went thorough axle to lock kinkpin in place. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 Yep.. Your 'Noodle' is still working, Mech.. I meant the upper noodle.. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 31, 2023 Share Posted August 31, 2023 6 minutes ago, mechohaulic said: based on memory (oh no not that ) the straight pins had the flat spot(notch) mid-way and a wedge pin threaded on one end went thorough axle to lock kinkpin in place. Like a twin I beam on a Ford pickup. My axle was like 9-10, with the seal. I have a few pics somewhere in my home computer showing the parts before installing them. There is something odd about those bushings. Almost like they need HONED, not reamed. I seem to recall taking my spindles to my friends shop and using his pin home. It's been a few decades so it's CRS. Maybe I just cleaned the spindles so the bushing fit easier? Too long ago. I do know if you let the thrust bearing get too loose, the wheels will get a shake while driving. Not until I jacked it up and realized they had worn in after 10 yrs, I resnugged them and it smoothed drastically. 1 Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 6 hours ago, doubleclutchinweasel said: Something is definitely not right here. Those types of bushings are typically not reamed. They usually have a thin layer of material on the inside that provides the wear surface. Reaming will remove that, and it will be steel-on-steel. I'm at a bit of a loss here. Something is definitely not adding up. Maybe Freightrain can offer some advice. I know he has done a B model set. this topic is one of those which bring back the "remember when" days. had a customer having a single axle HD ford dump, transmission was screwed up and needed bearings. trans out/ apart; bearing kit laid out. there was an upgrade in the kit. 1 3/4 long needle bearing replaced a bushing. point is bearing fit the shaft; bearing fit in the gear . just not when attempting to put shaft through the gear when roller bearing in the gear . truck HAD to be running 7 am. stayed up all night with a cyl hone "boring out " the gear. everything went together after hrs of honing . truck running by 6:30am as owner came to go to work. I had enough time to stop for coffee and do full day at regular job. object of story this sounds like wrong boxed parts/ someone swapped parts or another upgrade no one mention when buying parts. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 And Sky dog.. no amount of that vasoline, is gonna make that pin fit, just sayin'.... keep in touch... Jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
skydawg Posted September 1, 2023 Author Share Posted September 1, 2023 The pin is tapered,no notch.So,given all the conflicting posts,I`m not going to pursue this,I`ll keep everything greased and drive it.Spent $300 on parts I was told were correct,and they`re not.Lack of parts and info will be the reason fewer of these great beasts will be on the road every year. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 Good deal skydog.. the correct kit will come along. Someone here may chime in the the parts kit number.. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 7 hours ago, skydawg said: The pin is tapered,no notch.So,given all the conflicting posts,I`m not going to pursue this,I`ll keep everything greased and drive it.Spent $300 on parts I was told were correct,and they`re not.Lack of parts and info will be the reason fewer of these great beasts will be on the road every year. I definitely think someone has mismatched parts in that kit. I mean, these are NOT that uncommon. Bunches of them were done by the guys on here. And, I don't think it is a matter of a wrong kit number. The bushings do not appear to fit the pins! That screams mismatch to me. Refer to the picture I posted of the kit I had for mine. Everything stacked up fine on the bench. And, I bet that kit SHOULD have had the seals with it too. I don't know if what you got was a real Mack kit or something somebody cobbled together and put a Mack part number on. All I do know is that this is a pisser. Might want to see if the eBay seller will accept a return. There's a "correct" kit out there somewhere. If I was close to you, and had access to a machine shop, I could MAKE you a set of bushings to fit that pin and axle. And, no. This type of pin did not have a locking flat on them. That is common on straight pins. These are merely held in place by the locking effect of the taper. Easy out. Easy in. I just hate that the pieces you got do not match up. Again...a real pisser. 1 Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
doubleclutchinweasel Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 I don't know, but these guys might be able to measure what they have and offer some insight into what you got... I keep finding references out there that suggest the 45 replaces the 32. But who knows for sure. The counter-holder-downers at the Mack dealerships certainly aren't much help anymore. https://instockmotorsports.com/mack-301sq32b-king-pin-kit-nos/ https://instockmotorsports.com/mack-301sq45a-king-pin-kit-nos/ Quote "Eagles may soar, but weasels don't get sucked into jet engines." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted September 1, 2023 Share Posted September 1, 2023 I'm reading these parts were from an e-bay seller !!!!! darn ;possibly that is a bases for the situation at hand. e-bay like many other outlets on line were always a good source for items. I've bought for yrs there. last transaction I e-bay won went negative. not saying this seller of pin kit did wrong ;just adds to confusion. seems many sellers have a number of accounts and bid against themselves to build profiles and scam others. sad 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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