The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Hi, Changing diff oils for first time on this old 2004 mack vision tipper I got a couple years ago and the front diff oil change went ok and oil looked good. Old owner has had work done on this diff but the rear diff oil didnt want to come out. removed filler bung and stuck finger in there and could just feel oil on end of finger. Black, sludgy, and smelly… stuck finger up in drain bung hole and pushed some crap out of the way that was blocking hole and got the oil out. Finger goes back up in drain hole and theres a magnet, a nut and a washer. None of which i can fish out through the bung hole. I want to pull rear diff center out and see where nut and washer has come from. Suspecting crown wheel. theres 2 studs top and bottom of diff center so the plan was to pull one set of rear wheels off and jack that side up to get access over diff with a car engine crane and remove axles and tailshaft somehow, then slide diff center forward and hook a couple d shackles to center bolt flange holes and lift it out a bit to look in there. never done this job before. trying to put my plan together before i start trying to get it out. Im not sure how to go about cracking the sealant thats on flange? On a car diff, i have put a jack under pinion to crack the seal but with these big studs top and bottom im not even sure how to crack that seal to get the center out. i understand the center may be fairly heavy so If i can get it balancing well from my chain would be good. would it balance ok hooking d shackles through flange bolt holes, i will be doing this job on my own and out on the dirt. So hoping a crow bar to help manouver the engine crane to get the center forwards and out. any tips or advice before I start undoing anything? thanks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 It sounds like you are going at it pretty good given the dirt floor and engine crane.. maybe a full sheet of plywood under the crane, and some long pieces of threaded rod for guide studs, when it's time to put it together.. as far as breaking the seal, the weight of the diff. Is enough to break the sealant loose.. I'm not sure if meritor uses an internal oil pump, but if so, be aware of the plastic oil gallery, in the nose cone when you pull that apart.. I know Eaton's have them in the front diff. I cant remember Meritors... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeH Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Looooong bolts with smooth shoulder and maybe heads cut off so you can slide the differential forward and off onto a transmission jack or a ratchet sling assembly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) Look around the carrier for an un used bolt holes. I know my IHC (Spicers) had two threaded holes you can put "jack bolts" into, I think my Rockwells did also. At the shop we used a floor jack with an adapter to remove. When doing them myself I did from above with a winch line of my winch truck. We had one carrier at the bus company that was stuck but good. My co worker took out a bolt and threaded the bolt hole with a bottoming tap the next thread size up. Then he put a ball bearing in the bolt hole and a bolt (the ball bearing prevent mashing the threads in the housing and precludes the need for the threads in the carrier from going all the way to the bottom) then threaded a bolt in. Just had to break the seal and it worked. I am sure on all the new stuff they have left out the jack bot holes, like everything else that is helpful, they cut it to the minimum they can get away with. I did one trans/ clutch in the"dirt" with a engine crane and plywood. I wouldn't recommend if if anything else is available to you. I layed out two sheets of 3/4" plywood (Have you priced out plywood lately) and the steel casters still indented into the plywood making it hard to roll/move. If I had to do it again without the winch truck. I would try and find a stout tree limb I could park the truck under and use a chain falls or come-a-long on a chain wrapped around the limb. A long single line has enough "give" that you can easily move the weight at the end a foot or more to get the carrier out and back in. whoop's missed that is was a "tipper" so tree limb will not work. Can you attach a chain to the underside of the body and used a come a long and truck hyd to lift it out the top? (again on a single line). Edited June 28, 2023 by Geoff Weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 I called a truck repair shop in town, they are talking $2,000 labour and up to $6,000 for a reco center. I’m pretty keen to try get it out myself and at least look at it and try see whats happened. theres no where on the aluminium tipper to tie off to without drilling holes in maybe the rails. I’ve got a skid steer with forks but cant open the door to get out if the buckets up otherwise I could probably dig some holes beside truck with the post hole digger and build a log gantry type setup and hook a winch on maybe that could work. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 If you have a metal scrap yard near by a couple long pieces of 4 in channel iron might be cheaper then plywood to build a track for the floor crane. iron will also take the weight. it's a method that has worked for me. "portable " plywood floors have been used many times in the past; if load was light or I was using as a creeper roll around floor. did take a quad out of a DM-600 using a car jack on plywood ; NOT recommended. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 The part you are pulling is not very heavy, but I can see where you will have to get creative.. I have the larger tranny jack that Harbor Freight has.. it was under $300.00.. maybe that can help you.. I use mine to do other small lifting jobs and last summer I rebuilt the back box in an Eaton 10 spd. In the chassis.. I used it to pull the back box out.. yes I did weld up a jig to bolt to the table so I could use the yoke for removal and install.. just another idea.. I appreciate that you want to see what you have before sending it out... Jojo Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 have to consider it's the rear/rear in question; not a lot of room to work even with body all the way up. skid steer with fork extension be the way to go; situation is that would require at least two people so operator stays in machine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 since this is a "new"truck 2004 want to make sure I'm on same page. this rear comes out top as ole school or is it a front removal ?? reading comments of long guide studs which to me indicates front removal not top. do remember (sorta) taking rear tires off to lower rear to ground for carrier removal . seems it was a dump also. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 10 minutes ago, Joey Mack said: The part you are pulling is not very heavy, That is a relative statement, compared to engine, no, compared to lifting it off my leg, yes! Next question is: What and how is the truck used? Can you afford to "down the truck" while doing it yourself or is it your source of income? If the latter, you might be money ahead in "biting the bullet" and paying to have it done. If I had no other way to get to it, and it had to come out the bottom, I would go to a scrap yard and ask for the metal plate they put over trenches in the road (1" or thicker" steel plates to lay down, drive the truck on and remove with a floor jack. Next question, Ok, you got it out, now what? If you need to repair or replace it is going to have to come out from the "hole" you are working in between the axles. Little gained by pulling it forward for a look, then finding you can't remove it for repair and have to button back up and re fill to take to someone. Look at the whole picture and decide what make the most economic sense. I did all my own, but had the equipment to do so, and more than one truck so could down one and work on it while still making a living. Because he listed it as a Meritor axle, and in the 2000's I am sure it is a front loader. Meritor hasn't made top loaders for decades as far as I know, At least I have come across any that weren't old. (when they were called Rockwell, Timken or Detroit axle) 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big R Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 If you can’t find a helper could always take the door off the skid steer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 To be clear, I think he is working on the modern version of the Rockwell/Meritor SSHD 46K rear that was the mainstay of the dump truck market for years. They are front loaders. Mack was the only one to stick with top loaders long after others had gone to front loading. There are advantages to each design, not making a judgement call. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Sorry guys.. I guess I made it sound like a piece of cake to pull a front loaded rear rear.. and I thought this was a road tractor.. I'll stay out and watch... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mechohaulic Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 it's same as cake Jojo; some are easy to cut ; some aren't. wait till you get on the old age side of the coin= you forget what you learned and haven't learned the new stuff being discussed. I'm going by top mount Mack -not front load. off brand would be front mount in my day. it's called "built like a Mack " for a reason back then. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 I use the truck once a month or so and hook the 9 tonne plant trailer up behind it with skid steer on trailer, drive 250km and load myself up with cow manure then haul it back to my house. I’ve got about 4 weeks till I need to use it again. I run a worm farm and its the poo getter. I removed and done bearings, new crown wheel and pinion etc and set the mesh with dial guage and paint in my toyota ute (flat bed 4x4 ) myself about 11 years ago so kinda figured I can try fix this one in the truck myself too. I’m now kind of getting the idea to dig in a post in ground beside truck and attach a wall mount 180 degree jib type tool to that post. theres a chassis cross member in front of the diff center so it may need to be moved but not sure. If I can get it lowered onto a pallet I could drag that out or it might even come out over top and I could swing it around onto back if my ute tray and look at it there. I appreciate the tips guys. I like to try get my plan sorted before starting the job. I did manage to get the tipper ram out and do the seals in that a while back by myself by putting pole in ground to hold tipper up while I done that job. I’ve been a cattle station/ grain growing labourer all my life and we try do most stuff ourself if we can. Ive got big floor jack too and 3/4 rattle gun and crowbars etc. I’ve got to sell alot of worms to cover the $2,000 labour the shop wants and they said If they done it it would almost certainly get a reco center and I’d be looking anywhere up to $8k I’m going to have to attack this myself Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 Now that I’m looking at it, I might take the yellow fork lift head board off which would let me clear the tipper body. And chain that heavy wall RHS to the forks and use that as my winch block. I can get door open if its up that high. Ohh yes this might work Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 Now we are talking Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Geoff Weeks Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Can you lay your hands on some drill pipe (oil well thick wall) that will fit over one or both forks all the way? Then you don't have to get the skid steer as close. Worse case, un bolt the axle from the suspension, take the tires off, set the whole axle on the ground, lock the powerdivider and plug off air lines and drive the truck from over the axle. With the whole beast out it is easy to work and re-install center section. I did one that way, and it isn't as bad as it 1st looks, just a lot of bolts, and sometimes that beats fighting in a position where you can't turn or move. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 Yep this will work, i can attach to rear center on the overhang part of blue bar and slide it forward along bar with a ratchet etc. alright, Plans sorted, I’m going for it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 Ok... I said I was out............... well.... whatever....... can you lower the body, and lift the ass end up on stands and just pull the whole rear axle assembly out... It is on air bags... way easier to remove the whole axle and tip it up to pull the diff. out straight up.... Ooops there I go again,,, making it easy again,,, done it quite a few times... 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 28, 2023 Author Share Posted June 28, 2023 I can get in far enough i think Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted June 28, 2023 Share Posted June 28, 2023 (edited) You can set the truck up for raising it.. if all you have any 6x6 or 8x8 wood trigs, thats fine... set the truck in position. place the blocks aside the frame in front of the front drive axle. unhook the air ride control arm, put a strap or chain around the rear axle, and manually raise the suspension(with the ride valve by hand) to raise the frame.. then set the stands in front of the front drive axle, then let it sit on the stands.. then you can go after the rear rear axle. you can use the bobcat to roll the rea rend out. or if the forks are long enough, you can pull the rear axle, (wheels off) Since there is metal bits on the magnet,, you will need to clean the whole thing anyway... Edited June 29, 2023 by Joey Mack More content needed Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 29, 2023 Author Share Posted June 29, 2023 Cross brace out Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Nitro Posted June 29, 2023 Author Share Posted June 29, 2023 Tailshaft out, going good so far. Will use a new uni. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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