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Crank no start, good fuel to injection pump


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Hey guys, I have a 97 RD with the E7-350 in it.. It was having issues staying running so I started with the engine sensors, changed the oil pressure sensor and finally got it to run longer than a minute. It ran for about 30-40 minutes, I shut it off, topped it off with coolant and started it back up and it ran for another 20 or so minutes (operating temp I'd imagine) and then it shut itself off and now won't start. 

It cranks just fine and has good fuel pressure going into the injection pump with the key on, I have 3.5ish volts going to the fuel shutoff solenoid towards the back of the pump... 

I've also cracked the lines on top of the injection pump and cranked and only the very forward line got a little wet and now nothing when I try to bleed.

 

Any ideas on why it may have died or why it won't start now?

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Is the check engine light operating? key on amber light comes on goes off? red shutdown light  off?

Also turn the key yo the on possition does the heater fan operate? If not check the accessory relay under the ashtray!

Edited by fjh
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2 minutes ago, Bliue dm said:

Pickup pump maybe. I would also revisit solenoid on pump idea. If there is no fuel coming out of injection lines then pump is not pumping fuel. Are fuel filters dry?

Fuel filters are not dry and almost instantly pump back into the tank when I use the prime on the side of the pump.

Just now, fjh said:

Is the check engine light operating? key on amber light comes on goes off? red shutdown light  off?

I've never seen the check engine light, I believe the red shutdown does work but I haven't paid much attention to it.

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So pay attention!😁 The amber light usually on the right side of the steering wheel if its burned out replace it this will tell you if you got an active code may be causeing the shut down!Red light on means 1 of several things ,low oil preasure, high water temp; low water in the revivor, these all Can trigger shut down in 1 minute after start!   We need info to try and help the more of the questions you answer the closer and quicker we can help you to repair if we can! If the engine is sputtering when it starts it my be fuel psi related ! If its a clean start its  likly a  electrically driven fix! post what you find we will try to help!

assuming this is not a mechanical fuel pump

Edited by fjh
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Like Fjh said , pay attention ..it could be the smallest detail...I had similar problem to yours on my 96 ch 427.. ended up being the primer pump..it would suck air and kill truck after running a while....if you push the primer pump and fuel comes out the primer button then it's defective..even if it's slightly wet.air is thinner than fuel, assume that if fuel gets by ,air will too.

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Lots of good info here...  also check the condition of the wires and terminals in the round duetch plug on the governor housing..  you did say '97 right??  jojo

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1 hour ago, R.E.D said:

Like Fjh said , pay attention ..it could be the smallest detail...I had similar problem to yours on my 96 ch 427.. ended up being the primer pump..it would suck air and kill truck after running a while....if you push the primer pump and fuel comes out the primer button then it's defective..even if it's slightly wet.air is thinner than fuel, assume that if fuel gets by ,air will too.

The primer pump does have fuel leaking out of it but it has strong fuel pressure at the injection pump if I crack that line going into the pump.

10 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

Lots of good info here...  also check the condition of the wires and terminals in the round duetch plug on the governor housing..  you did say '97 right??  jojo

97 yes, so I believe mechanical pump with some electronic control, namely the fuel shutoff.

3 hours ago, fjh said:

So pay attention!😁 The amber light usually on the right side of the steering wheel if its burned out replace it this will tell you if you got an active code may be causeing the shut down!Red light on means 1 of several things ,low oil preasure, high water temp; low water in the revivor, these all Can trigger shut down in 1 minute after start!   We need info to try and help the more of the questions you answer the closer and quicker we can help you to repair if we can! If the engine is sputtering when it starts it my be fuel psi related ! If its a clean start its  likly a  electrically driven fix! post what you find we will try to help!

assuming this is not a mechanical fuel pump

Good idea, I'll pull that light out and replace the bulb. Everytime it has started it was a very healthy start, only time it would sputter is if it was a little chilly and sat for a bit.

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Leaking fuel anywhere.... is a place for air to get sucked in or let air in to let fuel drain back.... loosing "Prime"   just sayin... jojo

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Unsure how the Mack electric shutoffs work.  My '97 12v Cummins dodge uses 2 solenoids for fuel shutoff lever: one stronger relay kicks it "on" momentarily, then a weaker solenoid kicks on and "holds" the shutoff valve in the "run" position...  When you shut the truck off the solenoid powers off and is spring loaded to shut off the lever.

A failing shutoff solenoid can cause the truck to shut off unexpectedly.  Previous owner of my dodge disconnected the solenoid til he got around to replacing it. He had to reach around and flip the shutoff lever to start/stop it.

Edited by JoeH
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3 ish volts on a fuel shutoff solenoid?

that statement puzzles me 

I don’t think this uses some kind of “reference” signal. Solenoids work on 12volts  

so where that Deutch connector is, Is it on a pigtail that comes out of the rear cover?

Turn the key on, and wiggle the pigtail where it comes out of the cover and listen for a click  

I had to pull that rear cover off, and the wires inside the cover were not making good contact. Needed to solder the wires that go to the shutoff solenoid.
Nothing falls when cover is removed.

Im thinking we could even start the truck with it off.

 

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i know i'm always thinking in "old terms"  , no one asked if the fuel filters were changed recently.  low voltage doesn't sound right .  good pressure does n't mean its  good fuel if the filters are full of water . 

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5 hours ago, LCE_Hauler said:

The primer pump does have fuel leaking out of it but it has strong fuel pressure at the injection pump if I crack that line going into the pump.

97 yes, so I believe mechanical pump with some electronic control, namely the fuel shutoff.

Good idea, I'll pull that light out and replace the bulb. Everytime it has started it was a very healthy start, only time it would sputter is if it was a little chilly and sat for a bit.

If the lightning bolt light is on, you can turn off the cruise control and press and hold the set/decel button to get the code. The lightning bolt will flash, pause, then flash some more. Count the number of flashes.

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5 hours ago, JoeH said:

Unsure how the Mack electric shutoffs work.  My '97 12v Cummins dodge uses 2 solenoids for fuel shutoff lever: one stronger relay kicks it "on" momentarily, then a weaker solenoid kicks on and "holds" the shutoff valve in the "run" position...  When you shut the truck off the solenoid powers off and is spring loaded to shut off the lever.

A failing shutoff solenoid can cause the truck to shut off unexpectedly.  Previous owner of my dodge disconnected the solenoid til he got around to replacing it. He had to reach around and flip the shutoff lever to start/stop it.

I'd love to put a manual shutoff on it and rule that out but unsure of how to since it's not built like a 12-valve, it's an actual plunger that goes into the side of the pump unlike the Cummins that has a seperate arm leading to the solenoid. All that goes into the back of my shutoff are wires.

5 hours ago, Van said:

3 ish volts on a fuel shutoff solenoid?

that statement puzzles me 

I don’t think this uses some kind of “reference” signal. Solenoids work on 12volts  

so where that Deutch connector is, Is it on a pigtail that comes out of the rear cover?

Turn the key on, and wiggle the pigtail where it comes out of the cover and listen for a click  

I had to pull that rear cover off, and the wires inside the cover were not making good contact. Needed to solder the wires that go to the shutoff solenoid.
Nothing falls when cover is removed.

Im thinking we could even start the truck with it off.

 

I'll check the Deutch connector tomorrow, make sure all the pins are solid. What "rear cover" are you talking about?

5 hours ago, mechohaulic said:

i know i'm always thinking in "old terms"  , no one asked if the fuel filters were changed recently.  low voltage doesn't sound right .  good pressure does n't mean its  good fuel if the filters are full of water . 

Fuel filters have not been changed since I've had it (I've put less than 50 miles on this truck), I would think that it'd still have "fuel/water" coming out of the top of the injection pump while cranking and lines are cracked?

2 hours ago, fjh said:

If the lightning bolt light is on, you can turn off the cruise control and press and hold the set/decel button to get the code. The lightning bolt will flash, pause, then flash some more. Count the number of flashes.

So I checked those this evening real quick, the lightning bolt was there with a good bulb.. I did not find a check engine light... The light assembly to the left of the high beam light directly above the steering column was gone with the bulb sitting back in the dash with a burned out bulb, changed the bulb and she was steady on.. As for the shutdown light, it's assembly was also missing with the bulb back behind the panel, unfortunately the positive wire was cut and is nowhere to be found....

 

I will see if the flashes work tomorrow.

Edited by LCE_Hauler
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If you've only got 50 miles on the truck it sounds like someone may have sabotaged the engine shutdown light. It's not unheard of to have a seller pull a bulb out to hide problems they're too lazy and cheap to fix.  

Lightning bolt is the "Check Engine Light", it should come on with initial key on, then go out after a few seconds, unless there's an active fault code.

Engine Shutdown light *should* do the same.... Sounds like you have to repair the wires first....

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I went to my shop to look for info.  I cant believe that I dont have a 'pin out' diagram for the Duetch plug at the injection pump.  Did you remove the Timing event marker, to inspect the ebd pickup?  as well as the condition of the wires?  It is screwed into the side of the inj. pump in front of the governor housing.. 2 wires.. I will try to find the 'pin out' diagram..  I know I have it somewhere..  jojo

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Sorry about the rotated pics... I dont know what I did there..  when you get the blink code out of the truck, post it and I will send you the flow chart for the repair..  jojo

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49 minutes ago, Joey Mack said:

Sorry about the rotated pics... I don't know what I did there..  when you get the blink code out of the truck, post it and I will send you the flow chart for the repair..  jojo

You are a dedicated soul bro!

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Thank you "F"  I have collected many books, from Mack schools and E-Bay, and so on..  They mean a lot to me and, If I can help someone keep there 'Dog' of it's leash, I will... :) Jojo

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