HabelTrans Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 I am considering buying a truck (that I have previously owned) that is now needing the cam taken out. I am curious as to whether or not any of you fine folks here can give me a list of any special tools needed to do this. I would like to do the job myself instead of having it done at a Mack shop, as the closest shop is a couple hundred miles away. Besides that, I am finding myself more interested in doing engine work myself these days. I like to have first hand knowledge of the equipment I run and what makes them tick. A little info on the truck; 99 CH613, 460 E Tech, Mack 18sp, 3.86 rears (Gold Dog). This was a great truck for me when I owned it previously. I would like to make it so again. The current owner had it overhauled but opted not to do the cam and now it is burying him with repeated issues with the overhead. (See user dkv411 postings on the issues the poor old girl has been having) Even if I don't buy the old pup back, I would like to help my friend fix it and not go bankrupt paying the Mack shop.Thanks in advance for any help you all might be able to give. Quote :chili:Take care of your ride and it will take care of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acegreaser Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 H rings dislodge causing cam followers to rotate destroying cam lobe.you need special tools to remove and install.you need to check and compare height on everyone.you have to remove heads to replace H rings 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
turckster Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If you're serious about doing your own repairs then I would suggest getting an engine manual. That way you have the service procedures for repairs with all the fits and limits, torque specs and all sorts of other goodies--like tools required for each job. The camshaft/cam gear combo weighs about 90 lbs, There is a special tool to help cam removal(making it a one person job). It can be done without the tool but its a pain in the tush. You'll need to support the lifters for removal/install of the cam. Press the gear off, Heat the gear up in an oven to 200 deg, pop it onto the cam in one motion. If you fail to install the gear all the way then you have to press it off and start again. Not sure on this engine but some cam keys were offset, must be in same position when installed onto new cam. Depending on which lifter failed, I would make sure the h ring for that cyl. is same height as all others and in proper position, All eup roller guide pins should be inspected. If the engine has jake brakes, make sure all exhaust actuator pins are within spec. Inspect all valve retainers to be sure the roller retainer(s) have not failed. If the roller retainer is on top of the spring then this is the old style They were bad about failing, sending small pieces of metal down into the lifters causing them to lock up--popping out the h-ring. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hatcity Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 If I recall, there was a recall on those motors for bad cams.Check with MACK with vin# and see if it was done, and/or if it will be covered by warranty.A couple phone calls may save you lots of time, aggravation, sweat, cussin,.... 1 Quote Success is only a stones throw away.................................................................for a Palestinian Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkv411 Posted October 19, 2014 Share Posted October 19, 2014 (edited) Unfortunately the cam recall was done I believe around 200k we have all the maintenance records from the original owner. So far the only books I have been able to get my hands on are the ones from mack that are about a hundred pages long and has a very small section on cam removal. Edited October 19, 2014 by dkv411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A good Mack shop can get the job done with new H-rings in about 1 1/2 days and save you some down time and headache. Also it would then have a warranty. Also i recommend replacing all lifters and EUP rollers and replacing the oil pump. You may want to have a couple of rod and main bearings checked to be on the safe side. And if a lot of metal is found in the oil pan you may want to replace the oil cooler. This is what I recommend at our shop. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A good Mack shop can get the job done with new H-rings in about 1 1/2 days and save you some down time and headache. Also it would then have a warranty. Also i recommend replacing all lifters and EUP rollers and replacing the oil pump. You may want to have a couple of rod and main bearings checked to be on the safe side. And if a lot of metal is found in the oil pan you may want to replace the oil cooler. This is what I recommend at our shop.Sorry to go off topic but how long should it take to change 3 EUPs and 3 lines? 1 Quote Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acegreaser Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 A good Mack shop can get the job done with new H-rings in about 1 1/2 days and save you some down time and headache. Also it would then have a warranty. Also i recommend replacing all lifters and EUP rollers and replacing the oil pump. You may want to have a couple of rod and main bearings checked to be on the safe side. And if a lot of metal is found in the oil pan you may want to replace the oil cooler. This is what I recommend at our shop.your shop can R&R a cam,h rings,reinstall head,front timing gear cover,radiator and cooler in 12 hrs? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That is considered a gravey job in a flat rate world!! I love those jobs. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 3 eup' and 3 lines on an Etech an hour sould be a good time estimate. 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
acegreaser Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 That is considered a gravey job in a flat rate world!! I love those jobs.impressive to be able to do all that and clean all parts and services.isn't book time around 20 hrs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 Yes book time is about 20 hours. When you have done as many as we have in our shop it gets real easy. Not all tech can do it that fast but there are some of us that can. Hell just a cam and rollers can be done in a day. Flat rate brings the hustle out of a good tech. Lots of gain time. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkv411 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 (edited) This has been an on going problem started with #6 exhaust bridge pin breaking two week's later #6 intake bridge pin broke. The dealer pulled the pan and found no shavings pulled an oil sample that came back good. Ever since the small shop I use replaced the first exhaust pin the #4 cylinder rocker bridge has been rattling when the dealer put the floating bridge in they replaced #4 bridge and 3 weeks later I took it in for a thumping through the intake # 4 valve at the front of the head was approximately 1\4 inch of lash. This engine was overhauled march of 13 but obviously didn't replace the cam. Edited October 20, 2014 by dkv411 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2stacksuperdog Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 3 eup' and 3 lines on an Etech an hour sould be a good time estimate.Thanks. And how long to run the truck on the computer? 2 Quote Matt Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 20, 2014 Share Posted October 20, 2014 What do you mean to run the truck on the computer? If you mean program the eup calibration codes it doesnt take that long but most shops charge 1 hour to hook the computer up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 21, 2014 Share Posted October 21, 2014 I could do 3 tech cam jobs a week easy back in the day, The older I get the less I want to do them. Spend my days now messing with DEF/SCR issues and MP injectors. Now I do about 4-5 SCR derate/NOX sensor problems a week, alot less greasy! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 Your right Mackpro68. I don't get to do the engine work like before now that I am the triage tech. It is a lot less dirty but I miss my engine work. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 22, 2014 Share Posted October 22, 2014 These dpf/scr issues can be a pain sometimes. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 23, 2014 Share Posted October 23, 2014 These dpf/scr issues can be a pain sometimes.Job security in my field! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabelTrans Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 I understand the downtime and headache issues. But this job (should I accept the challenge) is more about just doing it. I don't need the truck on the road any time soon or I would just pay the bill and make-up for it later in revenue. This is a little more about getting an in-depth understanding of what the actual problem turned out to be, and knowing that I can take care of it again later if need be.Oh, and I guess it will be my Problem now. DKV411 wound up finding another truck yesterday. Now, to my wife's displeasure, I have another big Tonka Toy to play with when I have the time. 1 Quote :chili:Take care of your ride and it will take care of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabelTrans Posted October 23, 2014 Author Share Posted October 23, 2014 Thanks to everyone for their posts and opinions on this topic. Quote :chili:Take care of your ride and it will take care of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wheeler73 Posted October 24, 2014 Share Posted October 24, 2014 No problem. Have fun doing it and let us know how it turns out. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HabelTrans Posted October 25, 2014 Author Share Posted October 25, 2014 I will. It is going to be a while before I get to this project. Too many others on the list first. I guess that's what happens when you marry someone that comes from an urban setting and thinks farming sounds fun. Then she wants you to do a lot of the work because you been there and done that......... I guess as long as the old FLD and Series 60 keep doing their job, the Puppy can just lay on the porch until it's time to work again.A bit anxious though looking forward to playing Veterinarian, making her work and fart big black clouds once again. Quote :chili:Take care of your ride and it will take care of you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
j hancock Posted October 25, 2014 Share Posted October 25, 2014 A bit anxious though looking forward to playing Veterinarian, making her work and fart big black clouds once again.The truck or your wife?Sorry, couldn't resist! 1 Quote JimIt doesn't cost anything to pay attention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dkv411 Posted October 30, 2014 Share Posted October 30, 2014 (edited) I guess that's what happens when you marry someone that comes from an urban setting and thinks farming sounds fun. Then she wants you to do a lot of the work because you been there and done that. But look at how much fun you have Edited October 30, 2014 by dkv411 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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