Oil In Water Super 250 Cummins

[bullhusk]

I need to use my 361 Brockway dump for 3 or 4 days to run fill up to my site,(about 15mi round trip) so my question is...Is there a quick fix I might be able to do to get me by before I pull it apart?? I checked the oil today an it was chocolate milk, so I drained the oil an put a pres. tester on her: could not get above 3-lbs before water started to leak down into the oil pan. Ok so I'm thinkin Liner cav. or o-rings, am I leaving any thing out?? I know I should pull the pan an look up into the motor when I'm pres. testing it, but is ther any quick fix I could do like Stop Leak or something else?? I don't even know what is out there anymore!! This old Girl only has 108,000 mi on her, but she is a '74' The motor runs real good!! (Super 250 927ci natural)dry no leaks around the heads starts right up an has all kinds of power for a non turbo!!

Thank you for any advice Ernie DS

[theakerstwo]

You run a good change of spling a brg if you use it with coolant in the oil. No short cuts to the repairs you need.

[Bollweevil]

You run a good change of spling a brg if you use it with coolant in the oil. No short cuts to the repairs you need.

Antifreeze is just like sugar, or has the same effect, when mixed with engine oil. I wouldn't run it any longer than it takes to get it in the shop. Certainly not under a load.

[bullhusk]

Antifreeze is just like sugar, or has the same effect, when mixed with engine oil. I wouldn't run it any longer than it takes to get it in the shop. Certainly not under a load.

I forgot about the antifreeze!! good point. I started getin prices on a inframe from my Freightliner dealer an from Cummins Metro. We are so backed up in the shop that it would take me a month to do it in house!!

thanks Ernie DS

[theakerstwo]

I forgot about the antifreeze!! good point. I started getin prices on a inframe from my Freightliner dealer an from Cummins Metro. We are so backed up in the shop that it would take me a month to do it in house!!

thanks Ernie DS

I my self would hate mys self if i told some one to inframe my engine and they will do that. Then you find out that its a oil cooler or cracked something.May whant to get some one to drop the pan first and take a look.

[bullhusk]

I my self would hate mys self if i told some one to inframe my engine and they will do that. Then you find out that its a oil cooler or cracked something.May whant to get some one to drop the pan first and take a look.

I'm gonna pull the pan down an pres. test it first, would I find oil in the Rad. if it were the oil cooler??

Ernie DS

[bullhusk]

A guy from Cummins left me a mesg.,hears what he tells me: Cummins does not make a reman head for a Super 250, you have to buy new ones @ 1,000.00 per head X 3!! is there a dif. between a NH 250 head an a Super 250? I know the crank has a biger stroke (927ci) but the heads? anyone out there have any exp. with this motor??

Thanks Ernie DS

[theakerstwo]

I'm gonna pull the pan down an pres. test it first, would I find oil in the Rad. if it were the oil cooler??

Ernie DS

Maybe and maybe not.

[theakerstwo]

A guy from Cummins left me a mesg.,hears what he tells me: Cummins does not make a reman head for a Super 250, you have to buy new ones @ 1,000.00 per head X 3!! is there a dif. between a NH 250 head an a Super 250? I know the crank has a biger stroke (927ci) but the heads? anyone out there have any exp. with this motor??

Thanks Ernie DS

Same head. I have built two NH 250 engines with turbos on them from the N927. Making them a 855. All be cause tears ago when they were still in trucks the crank was weak and hard to find then. All we did to them was install a 250 crank and rods with 250 injectors and pistons and calibrate the fuel pump. The N927 was a 250/270 with out a turbo. They could be set to a 270 HP.The N927 block used a different oil cooler than the 250.

[bullhusk]

Same head. I have built two NH 250 engines with turbos on them from the N927. Making them a 855. All be cause tears ago when they were still in trucks the crank was weak and hard to find then. All we did to them was install a 250 crank and rods with 250 injectors and pistons and calibrate the fuel pump. The N927 was a 250/270 with out a turbo. They could be set to a 270 HP.The N927 block used a different oil cooler than the 250.

What the hell is this Cummins guy talkin about!!!Ya know; when I talked to this kid on Friday Morning he didn't know what the hell I was talkin about when I told him model of the engine, he kept telling me a Super 250 is a 250 with a turbo!! I told him no; that would be a NTC 250 this motor has no turbo but has a longer stroke (dif. crank) bringing the cubes to 927. Then when I gave him all of the other #'s he kinda figured it out, thats when he said he never new Cummins ever had a NH style motor over 855ci. Now..how bad are the crankshafts? It's only me drivin the truck, an I sorta was going to look into puttin a turbo on it if I rebuild her, maybe a turbo setup off of a NTC270 or 290? would I be able to install internal piston coolers with this block? I have not been inside of one of these motors in over 30 years? (back in the 70's). I will tell you this; I have pulled some monster loads 25-30 ton just to see how the 361 would handle it, this Super 250 with the 5X4 Spicer air shift trany is a TORQUE MONSTER (prob. why the cranks fail) it just wants to keep buildin steam!! I thought about maybe buying a good used 290 or even a 350 but I just love the way this motor works! an I would like to keep the orig. stuff in the old Husky she's been a good old girl!!

Thank You Very Much for your help an info.

Ernie DS BULLHUSK

[theakerstwo]

If it was my engine i would install a turbo but dont add any fuel. This will make it a clean engine and add some power. The cranks was bad to crack in the years they were in production.

[GreenGiant2]

If it was my engine i would install a turbo but dont add any fuel. This will make it a clean engine and add some power. The cranks was bad to crack in the years they were in production.

hey ernie, i have a bc 400 sitting hear for you.

gg2

[bullhusk]

hey ernie, i have a bc 400 sitting hear for you.

gg2

gg2, Give me a couple a days on this one an I'll let you know!

Thanks Ernie DS

[bullhusk]

Early last week we pulled the pan down an pres. tested the motor an found water leaking down inside # 5 (O-ring side)so we put the pan back up, filled it with fresh oil an put water in NO A-F. I drove this truck 90 mi west to my F-Liner dealer in Northamton PA. They dropped the pan an found no water in oil? So they put a pres test on it on Thur. afternoon, as of Sat.12 noon still no water leaking down??? Anybody?

Ernie

[Rob]

Early last week we pulled the pan down an pres. tested the motor an found water leaking down inside # 5 (O-ring side)so we put the pan back up, filled it with fresh oil an put water in NO A-F. I drove this truck 90 mi west to my F-Liner dealer in Northamton PA. They dropped the pan an found no water in oil? So they put a pres test on it on Thur. afternoon, as of Sat.12 noon still no water leaking down??? Anybody?

Ernie

You got some heat into the engine which is good. Those like to leak if not run. It will probably leak again so it's best to change out the sealing rings but it has the possiblility of not leaking until it sets a good spell again.

Rob

[bullhusk]

You got some heat into the engine which is good. Those like to leak if not run. It will probably leak again so it's best to change out the sealing rings but it has the possiblility of not leaking until it sets a good spell again.

Rob

Rob,

Should I pull all the liners an replace all the O - rings or just the one thats leaking? If the liners look good I'm thinkin just re-ring the pistons an glaze brake the inside? This motor was done about 7 or 8 years ago an has about 5k on her so everything inside is new!

Ernie

[Rob]

Rob,

Should I pull all the liners an replace all the O - rings or just the one thats leaking? If the liners look good I'm thinkin just re-ring the pistons an glaze brake the inside? This motor was done about 7 or 8 years ago an has about 5k on her so everything inside is new!

Ernie

I'd replace them all as when you pull the cylinder head(s) you will allow all the liners to move just a bit and this could upset the "set" the current sealing rings have taken while in place. If the liner is dry and not scored, I see no reason to break the glaze that is on the liner wall. I would just lube everything up good when reinstalling everything.

Rob

[bullhusk]

I'd replace them all as when you pull the cylinder head(s) you will allow all the liners to move just a bit and this could upset the "set" the current sealing rings have taken while in place. If the liner is dry and not scored, I see no reason to break the glaze that is on the liner wall. I would just lube everything up good when reinstalling everything.

Rob

Rob,

Are you saying pull all 3 heads or just replace #5&6 liner (#5 is the one thats leaking) I was going to replace both, but if you think pulling the one head would would allow the other liners to move, then that would be no prob. I know the guys at Cummins never liked pullin one head they would back off all the head bolts replace the head re-torque an keep your fingers crossed! I don't know if I would trust a Cummins head gasket that much! Also I guess my thought would be; if the rubbers are in a dry-rot state (from age an the old style anti freeze)on 5&6 the rest can't be far behind?

Thanks for your help an input ErnieDS

[Rob]

Rob,

Are you saying pull all 3 heads or just replace #5&6 liner (#5 is the one thats leaking) I was going to replace both, but if you think pulling the one head would would allow the other liners to move, then that would be no prob. I know the guys at Cummins never liked pullin one head they would back off all the head bolts replace the head re-torque an keep your fingers crossed! I don't know if I would trust a Cummins head gasket that much! Also I guess my thought would be; if the rubbers are in a dry-rot state (from age an the old style anti freeze)on 5&6 the rest can't be far behind?

Thanks for your help an input ErnieDS

Hi Ernie, I would say you could probably pull just the rear head and service those sealing rings and be alright. I know some engines will "flex" in the block when a single head is removed and could cause problems down the road. To be safe I would pull all three heads, ensure the deck is flat, and replace everything pertaining to seals. While it is entirely possible the leaking ring was "nicked" upon initial installation, it is also quite possible the others could be in close proximity to failure also. I usually try to "spin" the slatherd in oil liners as they are pressed down to avoid scraping the rings in one place only. Can't say if this does anything but I've not had one leak yet, (beating skull on desk). Myself, I don't try to get by on the slight cause absolutely hate to redo something which is usually out of my pocket.

To be honest I know nothing of this engine as never have worked on one. However all wet liner type diesel engines are subject to this same phenom when they set for extended periods. Use a good quality antifreeze/coolant to help extend the life of the engine parts and seals. Low silicate is the key. I've found it best to purchase this from a commercial oil supplier rather than the generic "box stores" because there is a difference in composition.

Rob

[bullhusk]

Hi Ernie, I would say you could probably pull just the rear head and service those sealing rings and be alright. I know some engines will "flex" in the block when a single head is removed and could cause problems down the road. To be safe I would pull all three heads, ensure the deck is flat, and replace everything pertaining to seals. While it is entirely possible the leaking ring was "nicked" upon initial installation, it is also quite possible the others could be in close proximity to failure also. I usually try to "spin" the slatherd in oil liners as they are pressed down to avoid scraping the rings in one place only. Can't say if this does anything but I've not had one leak yet, (beating skull on desk). Myself, I don't try to get by on the slight cause absolutely hate to redo something which is usually out of my pocket.

To be honest I know nothing of this engine as never have worked on one. However all wet liner type diesel engines are subject to this same phenom when they set for extended periods. Use a good quality antifreeze/coolant to help extend the life of the engine parts and seals. Low silicate is the key. I've found it best to purchase this from a commercial oil supplier rather than the generic "box stores" because there is a difference in composition.

Rob

Rob,

My dad used to use GO/JO (original) he always thought that oil would cause the O - rings to fail premature, some guys even used brake fluid (old school stuff! crazy? I don't know LOL!!) we use all the new type A/F in our trucks an even drained the older ones (recycled) an replaced it with the new stuff. I have done a lot of these Cummins Motors with my Dad years back an they are a pretty E/Z motor to work on compaired to the older Cat an the 2 Cycle Detroits. Ya No the older I get the more I second guess myself!! Back then I wouldn't think twice about tearin into a job like this no matter how long it took! Today? I'm lookin for instructions on how to change a toilet seat!!

[Rob]

Rob,

My dad used to use GO/JO (original) he always thought that oil would cause the O - rings to fail premature, some guys even used brake fluid (old school stuff! crazy? I don't know LOL!!) we use all the new type A/F in our trucks an even drained the older ones (recycled) an replaced it with the new stuff. I have done a lot of these Cummins Motors with my Dad years back an they are a pretty E/Z motor to work on compaired to the older Cat an the 2 Cycle Detroits. Ya No the older I get the more I second guess myself!! Back then I wouldn't think twice about tearin into a job like this no matter how long it took! Today? I'm lookin for instructions on how to change a toilet seat!!

I can't tell you how many engines I've put together using "Go-Jo" hand cleaner. Best stuff there was for the application. Nowadays I used "Lubriplate", or "Marvel" oils for assembly but really don't do much mechanical anymore. I've had so many lower back problems I don't really lift anything much over 30 pounds without help or a crane, forklift, etc.

Rob

[Mike]

Rob,

My dad used to use GO/JO (original) he always thought that oil would cause the O - rings to fail premature, some guys even used brake fluid (old school stuff! crazy? I don't know LOL!!) we use all the new type A/F in our trucks an even drained the older ones (recycled) an replaced it with the new stuff. I have done a lot of these Cummins Motors with my Dad years back an they are a pretty E/Z motor to work on compaired to the older Cat an the 2 Cycle Detroits. Ya No the older I get the more I second guess myself!! Back then I wouldn't think twice about tearin into a job like this no matter how long it took! Today? I'm lookin for instructions on how to change a toilet seat!!

When you find out how to change that toilet seat, will you pass the instructions over to me? I just remembered i've got to change one at my moms house. I didn't know that I was in the same situation as someone else until now. Like Rob said about the lifting of weight. Usually I wake up with something hurting, take Advil for several days or go to the massage therapis.

mike

[bullhusk]

When you find out how to change that toilet seat, will you pass the instructions over to me? I just remembered i've got to change one at my moms house. I didn't know that I was in the same situation as someone else until now. Like Rob said about the lifting of weight. Usually I wake up with something hurting, take Advil for several days or go to the massage therapis.

mike

Mike,

I would be happy to send them to you; But it seems that I flushed the instructions along with the new nuts an washers down the toilet! OOOO...WELLLL!! I'm just happy that I'm wakein UP!!!!LOL

Ernie DS

[bullhusk]

OK, pulled back head today, found liner cavation (holes in the liner) thats what I call it anyway! so I told the guys over a the F- Liner shop to pull all the heads an install 6 new liners an rings an rod bearings. They did confirm that the motor was rebuilt, it had the newer style heads an injecter seats also when he pulled # 5 piston he noticed they were Cummins Reman as well as the wrist pins an rods! It's just a bad case of the truck sitting an not being run (the older A/F didn't help). Now listen to this Cummins does not have the liners!! do you beleive this!! 60 days an they will have them! they are available frome Federal Mogul, so I told him to go ahead an get em I'll just have to hope they are USA made an they work!

Ernie DS

[smorse54]

Tank about made in USA. I recently rebuilt a big cam3 Cummins and cast in the inside of the pistons is made in China, These were genuine Cummins parts from Pittsburg Power.A friend told me this has gone on for years, where have I been. Maybe the aftermarket is made here. Thanks, Steve