wrenching4life

E9 head gasket failure after 2500 miles?

30 posts in this topic

Hey all just trying to rule out a possible head gasket failure, I recently completely rebuilt the whole top end, heads were done by Francis, I used factory Mack head gaskets, and ARP head bolts.  Problem is today while hauling I began hearing a ticking noise, sounds like an exhaust leak but I can't find and or see any, no soot marks, and can't feel anything at all the joints while running. So that leads me to think it's either valve train or compression loss out of the head gasket. The noise"ticking" is only coming from the back head on the driver side, which is the one that blew a gasket originally, from two broken head bolts. 

Looking around the head gasket area on that one head it appears to be oil resedue where all the other heads are dry as can be no resedue at all.

any thoughts, anything I should check, I plan on checking valves, is it possible to check for compression leakage around the base of the head? It rather not pull the head unless I'm certain I the gasket has failed. 

thanks all

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My guess would be a manifold gasket 

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I see no soot on any manifold gasket areas, and didn't feel and "hot exhaust air " while running. And the exhaust manifolds were brand new Mack. 

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wash off the oily area and run the eng, see if it reappears. no coolant loss ? or bubbles in the radiator?  did you retorque the heads after first running the eng. ?  

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As far as the ticking sound, make sure to check the base manifold for the turbo (not the turbo).  They are noted to crack on the back side facing the firewall.

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Don't know if this applys to your application but Dale did tell me to Torque the ARP's to 240 instead of 220.  Redueing my head gaskets know tryed PAI gaskets didn't work out for me.

Hope you don't have a Problem with the counter bore.

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Did you check liner protrusion while apart? Check valve bridge guide pins for looseness. If there are no running issues I would lean towards exhaust leak. 

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Well today I pulled that section of exhaust manifold and checked for issues, none found, re installed with new gaskets. Then checked valve lash I had one a bit tight and another a bit loose, I went and checked all the valves just to confirm that that was not an issue. All we're darn near perfect 

I cleaned the area around the head gasket so I can watch it. Also no pressure was in the radiator tank. Which last time when a head gasktet let go it had tons of pressure.

the heads were not re-torqued dale said I didn't need to until 10000 miles he also told me to torque them at 230 ft lbs, strange iv heard three different torque values, all "dale told me..." i tried contacting him today about this problem, and per usual no call back.

i never messed with the liners or counter bore, and to be honest I didn't check when I had it apart. 

it is odd that it's the same position on the motor as the original problem (pre top end refresh ),(2 broken head bolts)

 

well after all of that today I finally re fired the truck and the noise is still there, is it possible to have cracked that head in the combustion chamber?

anything else to check? It runs fine, seems to have a bad skip/ miss under heavy load now,idles fine just that ticking noise 

and also to add, this motor has dale Francis's oversized injection lines on it. This head was the one that I had to put a stock injection feed line in it temporary  ( About a month/ 1000 miles) on, #8 the new oversized stainless line cracked at the base of a flair fitting on the injection pump. So dale told me it was fine to run a stock line on it till he could get me a replacement. It now has a new stainless line on it so now everything should fire when its supposed to.

So between the valve adjustment, new exhaust gaskets, new injection line( that now matches the rest) Nothing changed except the heavy load skip/ miss seemed to get worse. I don't know what else to do, clearly somthing is wrong.

all help greatly appreciated!

 

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Another easy test is to remove the injector return lines at each head and see if one has significantly more return fuel. Poor connection at injector, cracked line, or unseated injector can cause a miss. With the V8 firing order its sometimes not easy to tell when the engine is not running right at idle.  

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Yea the miss/skip is some what a violent shake of the truck, the harder you get into it the worse it is. At an idle you would never know there could be a problem other Than the "tick" noise on the #7+8 head 

I'll check the fuel return and see how all the heads differ

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Easy one to get off anyway if there is a problem!

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Well I was able to get ahold of Dale today, and he seems to think I blew out a fire ring or two. He wants me to retorque the heads all 4 of them and see what that does. 

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broke is broke! A blown fire ring is not going to heal itself.   terry:D

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Yea I totally understand that it's not going to fix itself, will a blown fire ring make a tick almost like an exhaust leak? And will it cause a high rpm, high load skip/miss? I think it would, and I'm kicking myself for not checking liner height. 

Now cracking injectors will that show up at an idle? cause at an idle it sounds and seems to run perfect other than the "tick" noise and I know for a fact that noise is coming from the 7-8 head

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Cracking inj lines will make a miss . Only time you can't find a miss is when needle valve in inj is stuck open it seems to fill the fuel system with compression. All you can do then is pull them all and see witch one you can blow threw.

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If either of the injectors 7 or 8 we're stuck open they would be letting a lot more fuel enter the cylinder correct? Because there not shutting? And if that's the case it's very interesting that the truck is very "sooty" and the tick noise closely follows the injector pulse, i can feel the injection pulse in the line and it seems every pulse is a tick, could this be the compression coming back in the line?

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Not likely stuck inj would miss with alot of white smoke. But you could pull them and check . if you can feel the pulse with the tick then you know witch cylinder to look at.

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Check to make sure the engine brake solenoid is not hanging up on that head.

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I faulty injector will cause a tick also a miss as you have described, a slipped helix in the injection pump that results in over fueling of one cyl. will also do it.

 

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Is there a way to test the injectors without a machine to do it? Other than cracking the line at the pump,and trying to blow air through to see if it's stuck open? I'd like to pull the injectors out of that head and check them. And I'll get new injector install o rings and a nozzle seals for when I re install them, because I'm sure those will not be re-useable 

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Well the truck has been parked and have been busy doing other work, today I had a quick moment and I cracked the #8 injector at the injection pump and it killed that cyl and the ticking noise stopped, closed the line and it was back, so I tried #7 the cyl died when I cracked it but the tick was still there so I think the issue is without a doubt something wrong with #8

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You should be able to use the o rings and seal again didn't have them in that long.

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So I'm thinking because I cracked that injector and the tick stopped. There is obviously still compression, an if it was a fire ring problem wouldn't it still make the tick noise?

So does that mean it's an injector pump or injector failure/ problem? Just trying to figure out what is the next step in diagnosis 

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