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When Mack Trucks roamed Asia


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umodelnut, on 20 May 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

Nice RD! I can say I've driven one of them, because I have.

Look at the bumpers. These two trucks have R-model "corporate type" bumpers, not RD-style "swept back channel" bumpers. The steel hood option was available on both R and RD models. More commonly seen in North America on RDs, but a popular R model option in global market severe service applications where the durability of steel over fiberglass offset the added weight.

These trucks are right-hand drive, but Thailand plans to switch to left-hand drive in 2014, joining Vietnam, China, Burma, Laos and Cambodia on the right side of the road. Singapore, Malaysia and Indonesia are right-hand drive owing to past British and Dutch colonial influences,

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  • 5 weeks later...

Well funny.. i took that picture...

The are not Big Foots they are Titans ISX600 Eaton 22918 with the Renault Hub reduction axles

Built in 2001 i believe by the VIN plate.. before Volvo was involved

They are relativly complete.. even have the alternators still fitted..

Why are they parked there.. well technical support fell below acceptable stds.

Becuase its a hybrid of cummins / eaton no one stop shop could provide support..

The site now does operate a lot of Volvo and Scania and some Benz with a smattering of the Kenworth version of the Mack Bigfoot

But that will follow the same fate as the macks

The customer want one stop shop for complete service

The trucks operate there at 200 tonnes on dedicated roads

Its not modern but then its not backwards either

As the drivers and they lean towards comfort now as part of the job requirment

Drivers are in short supply there the same as the rest of the world..

So they do steer what the companies will buy..

But is saying all of the above i do think a new Titan might make the cut in Asia but with the M drive...

And yep I work for Volvo.. but i support Mack and UD and Renault

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Well funny.. i took that picture...

The are not Big Foots they are Titans ISX600 Eaton 22918 with the Renault Hub reduction axles

Built in 2001 i believe by the VIN plate.. before Volvo was involved

They are relativly complete.. even have the alternators still fitted..

Why are they parked there.. well technical support fell below acceptable stds.

Becuase its a hybrid of cummins / eaton no one stop shop could provide support..

The site now does operate a lot of Volvo and Scania and some Benz with a smattering of the Kenworth version of the Mack Bigfoot

But that will follow the same fate as the macks

The customer want one stop shop for complete service

The trucks operate there at 200 tonnes on dedicated roads

Its not modern but then its not backwards either

As the drivers and they lean towards comfort now as part of the job requirment

Drivers are in short supply there the same as the rest of the world..

So they do steer what the companies will buy..

But is saying all of the above i do think a new Titan might make the cut in Asia but with the M drive...

And yep I work for Volvo.. but i support Mack and UD and Renault

Welcome to the forum. And thank you for taking the time to write and share with us more information on those two Titans.

By the way, Volvo Group acquired Mack Trucks in 2000, so these 2001 model Titans were built and operated entirely under Volvo Group's stewardship.

From what you say, It's ashame that Volvo didn't provide adequate after-sales support for these trucks in Indonesia. Having a Cummins engine and Eaton transmission doesn't classify a truck as a "hybrid" though. And Aussie Mack dealers provide one-stop service for such Macks every day.

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Sorry I can say with surety Mack was seperate from Volvo in Australia when these were built, delivered and service supported.

I think i could name the guys that built them in the Mack SVC workshop at Richlands..

but i will concurr that i dont understand how the kenworths have survived and not the Mack..

If it was possable i would support their resurection... i am not a fan of the Cummins engine.. but to keep a brand operating their i would support it

My view if its not our brand I find its a compromise Cummins engine is generic.. compromised to suit Eaton trans Volvo Trans and allison trans and to intergrate to VECU same as Eaton Auto shift.. it is only the early engines that were managable,

You can blame Volvo but we within the company might have a different view ( Both Mack and Volvo people )

We can take the blame for the MP10 685 hp The MP8 530 The new Titan, the Superliner, The Trident, maybe even the Granite as well,

We have developed a great team over the years. we have embraced culture changes.

I also think perhaps the low sales volumes of only 2 compromised the support offered in the way of spare parts kept on hand, the local dealer training and even driver training...

On the bright side i will post up some pics of another site still operating some early macks..

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Sorry I can say with surety Mack was seperate from Volvo in Australia when these were built, delivered and service supported.

I think i could name the guys that built them in the Mack SVC workshop at Richlands..

but i will concurr that i dont understand how the kenworths have survived and not the Mack..

If it was possable i would support their resurection... i am not a fan of the Cummins engine.. but to keep a brand operating their i would support it

My view if its not our brand I find its a compromise Cummins engine is generic.. compromised to suit Eaton trans Volvo Trans and allison trans and to intergrate to VECU same as Eaton Auto shift.. it is only the early engines that were managable,

You can blame Volvo but we within the company might have a different view ( Both Mack and Volvo people )

We can take the blame for the MP10 685 hp The MP8 530 The new Titan, the Superliner, The Trident, maybe even the Granite as well,

We have developed a great team over the years. we have embraced culture changes.

I also think perhaps the low sales volumes of only 2 compromised the support offered in the way of spare parts kept on hand, the local dealer training and even driver training...

On the bright side i will post up some pics of another site still operating some early macks..

Maybe I can express the situation more clearly by saying that after Volvo Group purchased Mack Trucks in 2000, all Mack operations (e.g. Mack Australia) and responsibilities (e.g. the sale and after-sales support of Mack-brand trucks in Indonesia) were under the new owner - Volvo Group.

Paccar International has a representative office in Jakarta. Great people too under Don Helgerson (Paccar Int'l Asia Pacific regional manager). They take the Indonesia and Southeast Asia market very seriously. They're looking after those Kenworths. This is why Paccar continues to be successful in Indonesia. But Volvo, well, they clearly don't wish to support the Mack-branded product that they've sold. The former Mack Trucks didn't do business that way.

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You seem to have an axe to grind...so we should agree to disagree..

The former Mack is or was what it was

The one Mack dealer on your list was in jakarta, this mine is in kalimantan different island and about 6 hrs drive from the airport

But i will dig into the Vin. find the sales responsable, also confirm the actual build date

I sent the pics to the long term guys back at VGA/Mack

At the same site but different customer there are a larger number of renaults - again parked and slowlt being stripped

These are described as unsuitable with the amount of frame flex when loaded -

I guess they are operating at about 60 tonnes when loaded

and for the record there were two Volvo FM.s there as well

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You seem to have an axe to grind...so we should agree to disagree..

The former Mack is or was what it was

The one Mack dealer on your list was in jakarta, this mine is in kalimantan different island and about 6 hrs drive from the airport

But i will dig into the Vin. find the sales responsable, also confirm the actual build date

I sent the pics to the long term guys back at VGA/Mack

At the same site but different customer there are a larger number of renaults - again parked and slowlt being stripped

These are described as unsuitable with the amount of frame flex when loaded -

I guess they are operating at about 60 tonnes when loaded

and for the record there were two Volvo FM.s there as well

P.T. Allbest was the Mack distributor for Indonesia back in the days of Mack Trucks. From 2000 on, after Volvo Group had acquired Mack Trucks, I have no idea what Mack-brand sales and after-sales support representation was arranged by Volvo Group for Indonesia. According to the global dealer locator on the Mack website, there currently is no Mack representation in Indonesia (or anywhere in Southeast Asia now for that matter).

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Yes they were based in Jakarta.. different island..

And to think everything changed overnight is un realistic

When did Mack Production move from the Richlands Factory to the Wacol Factory?

When was the 1st changes in dealership support or change to company or private dealers and importors in Aust / Asia

When was the 1st design changes impacted on Mack Product?

I know that the legacy product was not touched design wise - only the new breed had design collaboration...

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Yes they were based in Jakarta.. different island..

And to think everything changed overnight is un realistic

When did Mack Production move from the Richlands Factory to the Wacol Factory?

When was the 1st changes in dealership support or change to company or private dealers and importors in Aust / Asia

When was the 1st design changes impacted on Mack Product?

I know that the legacy product was not touched design wise - only the new breed had design collaboration...

All the global truckmakers in Indonesia (and the main distributors) continue to headquarter in Jakarta (as former Mack Trucks distributor P.T. Allbest did), what with it being the capital of Indonesia. Volvo Trucks Indonesia is there, as is the head office of Volvo's principal truck distributor, PT Indotruck.

When did Mack Production move from the Richlands Factory to the Wacol Factory?

Australian Mack-brand truck production was moved out of the former Mack Trucks Australia Richlands plant and into Volvo Group's Wacol plant in 2002, just two years after Volvo Group acquired Mack Trucks.

When was the 1st changes in dealership support or change to company or private dealers and importers in Aust/Asia?

Well, Volvo starting gutting Mack Trucks right from 2000 in the U.S., and immediately lecturing dealers about the "Volvo Way".

As for dealers in Asia, according to the global Mack dealer locator, there no longer are any Mack dealers in northeast and southeast Asia. It indicates that only Australia and New Zealand in Oceania have Mack brand representation now.

The New Breed has a Volvo chassis. That's not collaboration, rather, that marked the beginning of Mack-branded Volvos in Australia. Thus it was terribly convenient to move Mack brand production into the Volvo plant.

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Interesting, that out of more than 600 trucks on the show field at Macungie, there were no Volvos that I saw except for a brand new one stuck in the mud in the trailer area.

I did see a good representation of trucks brands that Volvo killed such as Autocar, GMC, White, etc.

Jim amen brother

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I think this is typical of what we face within the group

Any change made is seen as detrimental

I can tell you 1st hand the culture intergration has been one of the biggest hurdles

There are two choices.. make what you can from it or walk away

Mack as a stand alone brand with unique designs would not have lasted..

No engine to meet emissions STD,s a Cab that is very old

So we are where we are.. as much as you can bag the company i could give it back and point out some different views

A typical response would be this is an example of Bullydog culture....

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Volvo may have bought and kept the Mack name alive but in doing so they have not truely

Let mack and its team bring up the brand to the top where it was once and could be again...IMO they have just intagrated brands then put the leash on to hold back the full growth potential. If Volvo wanted Mack to grow there would be close examples of Mack trucks that matched and surpassed paccar products....I'm perfectly fine with integrated use of truck parts but to keep a brand down in a vocational sector that it's known to raise the bar clearly shows the intent of the parent company. Then you have the failed us market heavy haul sector. Build a truck to haul big loads but offer it only as a day cab?...How will this help compete with all the paccar otr heavy haul trucks already out there? The leash is on tight.

Yes Volvo has done some good things but they have also limited the product offerings.

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Is the chn or vision cab based off the ch cab...was it mayflower who builds them still?

The current cab is based on the CH cab. The original Maxi-Glas door shells which I preferred, shared with the MH Ultra-Liner, were replaced with cheaper steel doors.

The CH cab entered the scene in 1988, supplied by Sheller-Globe.

Connecting the dots to the current supplier CVG, Sheller-Globe purchased Motor Panels of the UK and then put the Norwalk Mack cab plant under its new Motor Panels division. Then that division was sold in 1989 to UK-based CH Industrials, which was sold in 1991 to UK-based Mayflower Vehicle Systems, which was sold in 2005 to CVG (Commercial Vehicle Group, which has acquired Bostrom and National seating).

So currently, CVG stamps and assembles the cabs under contract in a run-down plant in Kings Mountain, North Carolina, originally located there to supply the Winnsboro, South Carolina plant.

Volvo Group owns the worn-out last generation technology cab tooling (CVG just uses it) and refuses to invest in any refurbishment because the narrowed North American version of the new Volvo global cab platform is in the pipeline.

Every day, these 25 year old cabs are shipped 500 miles all the way from Kings Mountain to Macungie.

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Well as you know they offer the Sleeper cab option in Aus...

The tests on the intergrated sleeper cab that was offered showed it would not survive here..

I am not a fan of the fibreglass sleeper boxes they offer here.. I hope we can offer an intergrated sleeper of our own design

And Paccar kicks our ass here in Oz We dont like it..

For the record the Mack Team and the Volvo team are now one In aus we all sit in the same design office

we learn from each other.. What we find challenging is the continual change in customer design requests..

Anything is possable but for one off designs the costs can be too high for anyone to accept...

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the 2008 and newer mack cabs are like 6 inches longer than the the old ch cabs so did they have to update the tooling to make these newer cabs or is it the same tooling ? also i dont see a problem with the current mack cab . yes the original ch cab came out in 88 but its still a good cab compared to other trucks out there . ived sat in the paccar classic style cabs and the there tiny no room and a very old design but still very popular so i dont see a fuss about macks older cab design. look at the rd cab was in production from 65 to 05 .

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the 2008 and newer mack cabs are like 6 inches longer than the the old ch cabs so did they have to update the tooling to make these newer cabs or is it the same tooling ? also i dont see a problem with the current mack cab . yes the original ch cab came out in 88 but its still a good cab compared to other trucks out there . ived sat in the paccar classic style cabs and the there tiny no room and a very old design but still very popular so i dont see a fuss about macks older cab design. look at the rd cab was in production from 65 to 05 .

Yes, Volvo modified the CH tooling to add the 6 inches. My point about the CH cab's 25 year age is, in order to remain competitive in the truck business (and ideally lead the industry), one typically replaces a cab by year 20. Let's face it, over a 20 year period, technology has significantly advanced, more innovative design themes have been introduced, and of course customer demands evolve. The CH tooling, albeit modified for +6, is in terrible condition. Mack Trucks would never have handled it this way.

We all love the CA49 R-model cab. But to mention it in year 2013, it's proportions would have to grow, wider and longer. And then there's weight. The R-model cab was designed to be of metal construction, and is not adaptable to lightweight composites.

Lightweight composites, an improved Maxi-Glas material, are the ideal solution. Impervious to rust and corrosion, composite materials are fire-proof while offering excellent sound and temperature insulatiive qualities.

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