jcutler Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 I have 2 trucks one vin number away for each other. They both have the P200200 code Diesel Particulate Filter Efficiency Below Threshold (Bank 1). I have replaced the DPF differential pressure sensor and the PM soot sensor. I walked it thru all 3 regenerations thru tech tool. There is an abundant amount of soot down the side of the truck. The trucks have a engine light on but never go into derate. One of the trucks I asked the driver has this truck ever called for a regen he stated no. These are garbage trucks so they do nothing but stop and go every 30 feet. Both are model year 2020 and are LR64. I've pulled the DPF filters off and pinned the filter to ensure they are not broken or damaged in any way and have replaced the gaskets after the filters came off. Our local Mack dealers service for warranty is 7-8 weeks out and I can't have the trucks down that long. Any ideas what this could be would be great. For what it is worth I do have readings on the NOX 1 and 2 sensors when the trucks are forced into a regen. Thank You Justin Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Have you also checked things like boost leaks, exhaust leaks between the engine and filters, and 7th injector being clean? If the filter is not cracked do you think it’s a matter of the truck producing too much soot? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) Also stuck turbo or failed egr cooler can cause issues. The fact that you have two identical trucks doing the same thing makes me think software. If you list the year and maybe the last 6 someone like Mackpro might be able to guide you a little closer to a solution. Edited October 25, 2022 by Onyx610 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 No new bulletins on the P200200 code for common rail engines. There are bulletins for this code on the pre-common rail engines. Mainly making sure the software for the EMS and ACM are up to date and that the DPF filter is not passing any soot . Did you have the filters cleaned while they were off? What did the soot level drop to after regen? If the soot level dropped after regen, drive the truck 40 miles then reckeck soot level , did it rise only 20-30% or jump back to 90-100% or more. The PM sensors are junk and have been junk even after 4-5 updated sensors. This sensor only checks for soot passing through the DPF filter. Will not derate engine . Doing a regular (soot) regen, at about the 75% complete mark , the outlet nox reading will be about 1/3 of the inlet. For example 900ppm inlet vs 300ppm outlet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 3 hours ago, jcutler said: There is an abundant amount of soot down the side of the truck. This is concerning! Shouldn't be any soot! Mack pro Has some very good points and way more experience than I, the dollar store sensors are likely part of the issue and Oxy may have the ticket also ( Turbo sticking ) ?Or HI issues ? Regen is Treating the symptom not the problem! From watching what went on at our shop you need to be checking your regen temps! Is it doing the full job correctly? If the turbo is sticking won't make heat! being a garbage packer they don't work hard they do a lot of idling the turbo is a soot collector of sorts! If you have ever run one of these with the exhaust disconnected you will see they do create soot every time you stomp on the pedal to go! hence Garbage truck how many stops and goes does it do a day ? LOTs ! Something to consider! again I am know expert in the field of DPF however! Just sayin! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcutler Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 48 minutes ago, Mackpro said: No new bulletins on the P200200 code for common rail engines. There are bulletins for this code on the pre-common rail engines. Mainly making sure the software for the EMS and ACM are up to date and that the DPF filter is not passing any soot . Did you have the filters cleaned while they were off? What did the soot level drop to after regen? If the soot level dropped after regen, drive the truck 40 miles then reckeck soot level , did it rise only 20-30% or jump back to 90-100% or more. The PM sensors are junk and have been junk even after 4-5 updated sensors. This sensor only checks for soot passing through the DPF filter. Will not derate engine . Doing a regular (soot) regen, at about the 75% complete mark , the outlet nox reading will be about 1/3 of the inlet. For example 900ppm inlet vs 300ppm outlet. Prior to regen the soot level was at 38%. After regen it dropped down to 0%. I will recheck when it comes back in tonight. Tech Tool stated all software was up to date. We are keeping both vehicles in, in a few days and are going to remove the filters and have them cleaned. They are both 2020 LR64 last six of the vins are 004700 and 004782. I misspoke earlier about them being one serial number apart. That one hasn't started rearing its ugly head yet. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Egr valve can be issues too 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solution fjh Posted October 25, 2022 Solution Share Posted October 25, 2022 32 minutes ago, Onyx610 said: Egr valve can be issues too 38 % is low ! Also Something to note ! Usually if your seeing soot out going the DPF is likely cracked Just had been our experience! 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 (edited) 10 minutes ago, fjh said: 38 % is low ! Also Something to note ! Usually if you’re seeing soot out going the DPF is likely cracked Just had been our experience! I agree on the cracked filter. Apparently he checked that already. Edited October 25, 2022 by Onyx610 Spelling Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jcutler Posted October 25, 2022 Author Share Posted October 25, 2022 2 hours ago, Onyx610 said: I agree on the cracked filter. Apparently he checked that already. Tech tool had me pull the filters and run wire in them and it was supposed to go in like 9 inches or something close to that. I spent about 45 min pinning every hole. LOL 2 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 That would have gave me a headache trying to concentrate on all those holes and I would have to keep restarting after the 10th one haha. So 45min is pretty damn good. 1 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Onyx610 Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 The walls could be cracked. I don’t think a wire is going to show that. It’s a wall flow type filter. Im sure you knew that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 Yeah we used to 'rod' them out with a piece of mig wire... There was always 2 guys that would argue over doing that.. "Yes you can!!! "No you don't"! Patience and a gentle touch gets it done.. it could take an hour to do one... 🥱 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mackpro Posted October 25, 2022 Share Posted October 25, 2022 5 hours ago, jcutler said: Prior to regen the soot level was at 38%. After regen it dropped down to 0%. I will recheck when it comes back in tonight. Tech Tool stated all software was up to date. We are keeping both vehicles in, in a few days and are going to remove the filters and have them cleaned. They are both 2020 LR64 last six of the vins are 004700 and 004782. I misspoke earlier about them being one serial number apart. That one hasn't started rearing its ugly head yet. That’s good that your ECM’s have the current software in them, it really helps in most cases. Mack always had us do the “Snap throttle test” where we would take the exhaust pipe off the back of the turbo and quickly floor the throttle pedal and you should only get a small puff of smoke for a second then clear. Large amount of smoke or continuous smoke could be EGR/turbo/boost issuses 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Popular Post jcutler Posted November 15, 2022 Author Popular Post Share Posted November 15, 2022 On 10/25/2022 at 11:43 AM, fjh said: 38 % is low ! Also Something to note ! Usually if your seeing soot out going the DPF is likely cracked Just had been our experience! So for shits and gigs I pulled the DPF and SCR filters off of the truck and sent them to be cleaned. DPF cleaning company advised when they called that the DPF filter was collapsing internally. I also replaced the two sensors just prior to the SCR because of the amount of soot accumulated around them. Truck has been on the road for almost a whole month and no more issues. 2 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joey Mack Posted November 15, 2022 Share Posted November 15, 2022 👍 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fjh Posted November 16, 2022 Share Posted November 16, 2022 17 hours ago, jcutler said: So for shits and gigs I pulled the DPF and SCR filters off of the truck and sent them to be cleaned. DPF cleaning company advised when they called that the DPF filter was collapsing internally. I also replaced the two sensors just prior to the SCR because of the amount of soot accumulated around them. Truck has been on the road for almost a whole month and no more issues. Good on you for posting the fix! This may help others with their on going issues with this over complicated junk! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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