Chassi VIN Unable to locate.

[Sébastien]

I've been reading as much info as possible from all of you but I'm still today unable to locate the chassi VIN for my 1985 Superliner.

 Went and look everywhere, driver side, passenger side, under the cab, above front axle... to no avail.

 Any other locations? Should I start looking inside the C channel?!

The reason for the need to have the VIN is to figure out if the front axle is properly identified for the weight/load capacity.

 Thank you for your help

[kscarbel2]

Okay, so based on the stamping, your truck's front axle mounting arrangement is 1QH39315P5 (that's a 5-digit Mack Western type arrangement number), and the model is, as we've already mentioned, FAW5371C (FAW537 series, 12,000lb/5,443kg).

Mackpro, what was the number of the 1QH arrangement you saw, when looking up RWS721LS-1528 ?

From your pictures, this appears to be a single rail chassis. Some bridge formula mixer chassis ran single rails because the mixer body acted, to an extent, as a supporting subframe. But my experience was we had crossmember failures and frame rail failures. Your truck has a far deeper frame rail than an R-model, but I question the long-term durability of this truck in tipper service when articulating off road. As I mentioned earlier, a (self-steering) pusher axle could help two-fold.

[kscarbel2]

45 minutes ago, Sébastien said:

I've been reading as much info as possible from all of you but I'm still today unable to locate the chassi VIN for my 1985 Superliner.

 Went and look everywhere, driver side, passenger side, under the cab, above front axle... to no avail.

 Any other locations? Should I start looking inside the C channel?!

The reason for the need to have the VIN is to figure out if the front axle is properly identified for the weight/load capacity.

 Thank you for your help

The vehicle identification plate for your truck, with your model and serial (VIN) number, is located at the rear of the driver's door.

[dickbuick]

VIN is supposed to be on passenger side above front axle.

But in 1985 I worked at a Mack dealer and there was a problem with the frame rails in the Superliner and I my self replaced 4 R/S rails.

Seems funny the # is gone off the rail and the door what dose the title or registration say?

[kscarbel2]

The truck's serial number (VIN) is also stamped on the outside of the right-hand frame rail. You can lean over the right steer tire and see it.

This is the same number on the driver's door-mounted vehicle identification plate. But the model number is not stamped on the frame.

A dealer needs the model number, and the last 5 digits of the serial number, to research the truck.

[Vladislav]

If your need concerned mostly the front axle, wirebrush the axle beam in the areas between the spring(s) and the steering knuckles. The marks you will find can explain things about your axle setup. Unfortunately I'm not a big master myself to decode them. But sure many others can.

P.S. If you post some pictures on here it might be helpful.

Vlad

[kscarbel2]

16 hours ago, Sébastien said:

Thank you again.

Im not so sure if the cab VIN is matching the frame VIN, as I'm trying to determine the front axle weight eating.

The cab model is RWS721LS.

Cab VIN is 1M2V120C4FM001528,

which could have been put on that chassi some time ago, or even better, the door was replaced at some point.

I will keep on looking, scratching, removing on that right side frame and hopefully find it!

Thank you all for the help and advices.

Okay, RWS721LS-1528.

You should see "1M2V120C4FM001528" also stamped on the outside of the right frame rail by the steer tire.

Now, your dealer can take that, look up the 1QH and 1QK front axle and front spring arrangements respectively, and tell you what axle and springs you have.

[kscarbel2]

What is the model and VIN on the truck's title paper ?

Look for the 1QHA number stamped into the front of the axle beam under one of the spring seats.

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

The same as what is on the driver side door frame, what I wrote in my second last post

That is the only VIN we have...

Until maybe tomorrow once the wire wheel start spinning.

Dickbuick, when you worked for the Mack dealer, and replaced those faulty rails, where the new one stamped the same VIN as the faulty one?

What is the model and VIN on the truck title ?

New rails don't come stamped. The dealer has to stamp them, but some don't.

For parts and service, dealers reference the vehicle identification plate on the door, which should be swapped over to any new/used replacement cab.

Wire brush and look for the 1QHA number, and FAW model number, stamped on the front of the axle I-beam.

Was this truck originally a tractor?

[kscarbel2]

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

The model is RWS721LS and the VIN is 1M2V120C4FM001528 on the title. Which is the only reference available at the moment, attached to the driver side door frame.

it used to be a tractor.

i will look at the 1QHA and FAW model number as you mentioned first thing tomorrow morning. Post those pictures as well. Hopefully a chassi VIN will show up as well.

I'm wondering if the swap was done, when and if the entire cab and door, or just the door was replaced (if it did). 

There is 11 leaf springs stacked on the front axle, each side. Can it be still rated for only 12.5?

An LS is a 6x4 straight truck, LST is a 6x4 tractor (this is Mack Western terminology). So, RWS721LS-1528 makes sense for what I'm seeing, a 6x4 tipper.

BUT, now you say it was a tractor. That conflicts with your model number and what I'm seeing.

We offered 12,000 lb taperleaf springs as standard, and 12,000lb multi-leaf was optional.

You may not have a Mack axle (could be Rockwell).

Other heavier axles were optional, up to 18,000lb.

Either have your Mack dealer pull up your truck's front axle model (FAWxxx) by looking at the 1QH front axle arrangement shown forRWS721LS-1528, or look for the stamping on the axle.

If your round headlamp Super-Liner is a 1985 (or at least titled as 1985), it's one of the very last Hayward design units built at Macungie, before we switched over the MH platform resulting in the RW6/RW7.

 

 

[Mackpro]

The truck is still listed in the Mack parts system. It was built on 11-29-1984.  The parts break down for the front axle beam  gives 2 choices of what front beam was on it. Either a FAW 536C  or a FAW 537C.    When I pulled up the leaf springs assembly it shows a 3 leaf  2QK3345  springs. 

[kscarbel2]

20 minutes ago, Mackpro said:

The truck is still listed in the Mack parts system. It was built on 11-29-1984.  The parts break down for the front axle beam  gives 2 choices of what front beam was on it. Either a FAW 536C  or a FAW 537C.    When I pulled up the leaf springs assembly it shows a 3 leaf  2QK3345  springs. 

I believe 2QK3345 supercedes to 2QK3378P6, which is for a 14,300lb FAW538.

2QK3378 is 10,500lb (FAW536)

2QK3378P2 is 12,000 (FAW537)

I don't recall the 14,300lb FAW538 having been introduced by that production date, thought it was a few years later. I may be wrong.

He needs to go ahead and look for the 1QH number on the axle beam. This truck might have been changed, since he has multi-leaf springs now. I hope someone didn't simply put heavier multi-leafs on a FAW537 axle. With all the weight on his steer due to the truck's bogie way back and the long nose, it won't hold up. It needs a self-steering liftable pusher axle if it actually has a FAW537 steer axle.

[Mackpro]

3 minutes ago, kscarbel2 said:

I believe 2QK3345 appears to supercede to 2QK3378P6, which should be FAW538.

2QK3378 is 10,500lb (FAW536)

2QK3378P2 is 12,000 (FAW537)

I don't recall the 14,300lb FAW538 having been introduced by that production date, thought it was a few years later. I may be wrong.

It was real screwy  trying to navigate the older trucks in Impact parts screen. When I clicked on the axle beam it went to a page with 2 choices and either path I took gave different axle beam arrangments.  However the leaf spring results were the same regardless.  Hopefully someone else here who's at a dealership and have a try at it. 

[kscarbel2]

3 minutes ago, Mackpro said:

It was real screwy  trying to navigate the older trucks in Impact parts screen. When I clicked on the axle beam it went to a page with 2 choices and either path I took gave different axle beam arrangments.  However the leaf spring results were the same regardless.  Hopefully someone else here who's at a dealership and have a try at it. 

I've heard the Volvo (Mack) parts reference system is a nightmare. The Mack system was always crystal clear. A lot of people in parts operations got in trouble, some lost their jobs, for pointing out that the Mack system was 10-fold better than Volvo's parts system.

[Vladislav]

5 hours ago, Sébastien said:

I will expose the chassi VIN tomorrow and hopefully it will be clearer what's going on.

Great info from you guys, hope I didn't open a can of worms.

 

By some way you have it done indeed. But that's a quite useful can of worms.

If you google "Mack FAW537" Mack axle you will surprize of just a few sources to get info about. And mostly from this forum. I myself lifted up this question a couple month ago and didn't get much of knowledge at that time. The good thing posts on here stay for a while on the net (as long as forum exists). And I'm pretty sure they become useful for many folks.

 

Kscarbel, thanks the great for the info! 

[Sébastien]

Thank you again.

Im not so sure if the cab VIN is matching the frame VIN, as I'm trying to determine the front axle weight eating.

The cab model is RWS721LS.

Cab VIN is 1M2V120C4FM001528,

which could have been put on that chassi some time ago, or even better, the door was replaced at some point.

I will keep on looking, scratching, removing on that right side frame and hopefully find it!

Thank you all for the help and advices.

[Sébastien]

It is a 6✖️4.

 I will post some pictures tomorrow morning. Not only the truck, the front axle as well.

This is becoming a mission now.

Thanks for the support, kscarbel2, dickbuick and Vlad.

 

[Sébastien]

[Sébastien]

The same as what is on the driver side door frame, what I wrote in my second last post

That is the only VIN we have...

Until maybe tomorrow once the wire wheel start spinning.

Dickbuick, when you worked for the Mack dealer, and replaced those faulty rails, where the new one stamped the same VIN as the faulty one?

 

Edited December 2, 2016 by Sébastien

[Sébastien]

The model is RWS721LS and the VIN is 1M2V120C4FM001528 on the title. Which is the only reference available at the moment, attached to the driver side door frame.

it used to be a tractor.

i will look at the 1QHA and FAW model number as you mentioned first thing tomorrow morning. Post those pictures as well. Hopefully a chassi VIN will show up as well.

I'm wondering if the swap was done, when and if the entire cab and door, or just the door was replaced (if it did). 

There is 11 leaf springs stacked on the front axle, each side. Can it be still rated for only 12.5?

[Sébastien]

Here are some pictures;

#1:   The door...

#2:    Front axle, I'm standing on the passenger side, facing the forward part of the axle, shooting the picture slightly upwards so you can see the leaf spring

 VIN is what I wrote.

 FAW 537C1 is stamped on front axle.

[Vladislav]

1 hour ago, Sébastien said:

Can't upload pictures

 VIN is what I wrote.

 FAW 537C1 is stamped on front axle.

FAW 537 is a common Mack 12000lb front axle.

[Vladislav]

6 hours ago, kscarbel2 said:

I believe 2QK3345 supercedes to 2QK3378P6, which is for a 14,300lb FAW538.

2QK3378 is 10,500lb (FAW536)

2QK3378P2 is 12,000 (FAW537)

I don't recall the 14,300lb FAW538 having been introduced by that production date, thought it was a few years later. I may be wrong.

Let me toss a question in the ring.

Does a axle model determine the springs capacity?

Or more closer to the matter of my interest - does FAW537 have spring packs (3 taper leaf) lighter (and the leaves thinner) than FAW538?

Or 2QK3345 springs were used with FAW537 and than the same pack but with newer #2QK3378P6 was fitted with FAW538?

[kscarbel2]

On 12/3/2016 at 5:16 AM, Vladislav said:

Let me toss a question in the ring.

Does a axle model determine the springs capacity?

Or more closer to the matter of my interest - does FAW537 have spring packs (3 taper leaf) lighter (and the leaves thinner) than FAW538?

Or 2QK3345 springs were used with FAW537 and than the same pack but with newer #2QK3378P6 was fitted with FAW538?

Yes. We wouldn't at the factory pair 12,000lb (2QK3378P2) springs with an FAW536 (10,500lb) axle.

When we introduced the 14,300lb FAW538 axle in the 1980s (I forget which year), we did have dealers who, in certain applications with used trucks, retrofitted 14,300lb springs (2QK3378P6) atop 12,000lb FAW537 axles. I forget, either the height spacer was eliminated or a thinner one was used (the caster shim remained).

The 3-leaf FAW537 (2QK3378P2) spring assembly has thinner leaves than the FAW538 (2QK3378P6) 3-leaf spring assembly.

We had a couple of suppliers. 2QK3378 numbers came from the Parish division of Dana (my preference). I forget who the supplier of 2QK3345 springs was. They were interchangeable.

2QK3378 fitted to 10,500lb (FAW536)

2QK3378P2 fitted to 12,000lb (FAW537)

2QK3378P6 fitted to 14,300lb (FAW538)

2QK3378P3 fitted to 16,000lb (FAW616)

2QK3378P4 fitted to 18,000lb (FAW617)

Note: The parts numbering system of the former Allentown-based Mack Trucks, created by legendary Chief Engineer and VP Alfred Masury, was so brilliant in its simplicity that I can still pretty much recall the part numbers today. That a system created in the 1920s is vastly superior to the meaningless Volvo parts system is damning.

[kscarbel2]

6 hours ago, Sébastien said:

Here are some pictures;

#1:   The door...

#2:    Front axle, I'm standing on the passenger side, facing the forward part of the axle, shooting the picture slightly upwards so you can see the leaf spring

 VIN is what I wrote.

 FAW 537C1 is stamped on front axle.

Now, we know you have a 12,000lb FAW537 steer axle (typical of a tractor).

Mackpro saw it was built with 3-leaf taperleaf springs. However, your truck presently has 11-leaf multi-leaf springs. Perhaps, they have adequate spring capacity, but your FAW537 axle does not have adequate capacity for tipper operation, particularly given the tremendous weight placed atop when loaded given the far rear location of your bogie. The only way to resolve the situation is to add a (self-steering) pusher axle.

Is your frame single or double channel? If double channel, was it added, perhaps of limited length, or does it run the full length of the chassis. If this was a tractor, the frame probably isn't reinforced for the flexing that a tipper will see off road. The pusher axle's mounting flange would help reinforce your frame somewhat, while allowing your 12,000lb steer axle to live.

 

[Sébastien]

I will expose the chassi VIN tomorrow and hopefully it will be clearer what's going on.

Great info from you guys, hope I didn't open a can of worms.

Better to know what I'm up against and try to rectify before damage is done.

i will as well look for the 1QH.

 Thank you!