67RModel

Yes these don’t necessarily have issues per se. they just don’t seem to have the extreme longevity an Eaton does. This is all anecdotal evidence mind you but all else being equal you will probably have to overhaul a Mack 13 before an Eaton. But 500k plus miles is easy to accomplish in the hands of a good driver(s). Like I said before they also get a bad rap due to their cost. They just have never reached the economies of scale that the Eaton units have. Parts are readily available but tend to cost more. They are also a good bit more to buy. Plus an overhaul will cost you more at shop “because it’s a Mack transmission”. If a T313LR bolted into your truck without any modifications I wouldn’t hesitate a second. A good solid reman will last you an extremely long time and you have to do no modifications to make it fit except for possibly shortening you driveshaft up. Plus you get to keep the truck all Mack which always has a nice ring to it…..

Here is the original Mack technical sales publication for the T313LR....

mack-maxitorque-es-13-speed-transmission-t313lr.pdf

Also for clarification I think the actual model number you would be looking for is Mack T2130....I think T2013 is a misnomer. It was later upgraded and name changed to T313. I think thy are pretty much the same thing so either would probably work. Ratios on the high side are probably identical. Personally I would look for a Mack T313LR. They have the half ratios you are looking for in gears 6-13. Plus LO is 15.91:1....excellent for getting heavy loads moving. The real nice feature in my opinion of the T313LR is the low reverse ratio.....its 28.98:1. That is lower than the LoLo reverse in an Eaton 8LL transmission. I like to be able to just idle in reverse regardless of load or grade and this easily provides that ability. Some would say its too low and slow but backing control with that low of a reverse is unmatched. The T313LR in my opinion is the ultimate "do all" transmission due to the low Lo and Reverse gears. Good enough for starting and backing off road plus it has the splits on the high side for gradeability at highway speeds.

12 hours ago, Tinman22 said:

now to find one.

They are readily available overhauled through various places. You can try eprogear.com or Adleman's in Canton, Ohio. They might bang you on the core charge since you are not returning a 13 speed. You could try to find one locally in "operating condition", put it in, and hope for the best. Or you could find one locally for cheap and just use it as a core on a reman or just send it out for overhaul before sticking it in. The Mack 13 and 18s are considerably less desirable and reliable than an Eaton 13 or 18. Lots of range syncro and bearing failures. They can't take abuse like an Eaton can and generally just don't last as long between overhauls. But if you get a good one or a good overhauled unit and are not slip seating the truck you should be good for a long time. They are also considerably more expensive to obtain and/or overhaul than an Eaton. 

1 hour ago, terry said:

Have the top limit of RPM's set to 2000.

I was going to suggest this too. If you are able to wind these out to 2000 or 2100 you are able to catch the next gear at 1400 or 1500. I have an E7 250hp maxidyne that is governed at 1750. I have always wanted to send the pump out to get worked over to 300hp specs and the governor set to 2100 just have not got around to it yet. My service book shows the same part numbers for the turbo and injectors for EM7-250, EM7-275, and EM7-300 so to me the only difference is in the pump. Would make drivability with the T2070 trans a little nicer I think. 

But as far as how the truck is running. You are pretty much exactly describing how an old Mack with these specs typically runs. Run it out the the rev limiter and catch the next gear at 1100-1200 rpm. Then slowly pull up to the rev limiter again.

The T2090 has a 0.71 overdrive. Pretty much any Eaton 13 you will lay hands on has a 0.73 overdrive, which is very insignificantly slower so the overdrive point is moot. The real crux of the issue is the packaging and fitment of the Eaton into your truck. It is not a direct bolt-in process. The crossmembers are different. Also, the clutch linkage and driveshaft lengths are all different. There are probably other things I'm not thinking of that you would need to work out too. Maybe a Mack T2013 13 speed would bolt in easily and you would only have to modify driveline length? Plus you would retain the same 0.71 overdrive.....

What is the best option for a replacement clutch for durability / price? I paid to have one put between a Series 60 Detroit and a Eaton Super 10 transmission a while back but can't recall what the shop sold me. Is there a major price difference between certain brands and/or does one hold up better than another?

On 5/16/2022 at 1:30 PM, 67RModel said:

International had them as an an option but apparently they were rarer than hens teeth, and of those essentially all were repowered with domestic made engines......

 

The more I research this the more and more I think these Rolls powered Internationals were Canadian manufactured only. The one in the video was manufactured at International's Hamilton Ontario plant. I can't find any information that these were installed in American made trucks....

The same question was asked in July of last year. See below link to that thread. Seems @Red Horse may know him and/or his whereabouts..... At least it sounds like he is OK just busy.

I guess it could be two things:

1. Compressor governor is not cutting in. The compressor is gear driven so its turning so long as the engine is running but in this case not actually compressing air. 

2. There is a catastrophic failure of the compressor discharge line causing zero air to enter the air tanks.

I guess I would inspect the discharge line from the compressor all the way to the wet tank with the engine running and see if I could find a leak. If no leaks are found then go after the compressor governor...

Yea I think that truck is in amazing shape from what I could see in the pictures. There may be some rot on the cab we can't see but everything else looks rust / rot free. I like the short wheelbase.

1 hour ago, The Rubber Duck 006 said:

Is the truck still for sale? If so how much are you asking?

Looks like $18,500.......22,000-3500. Seems about right to me from what I have seen anyway. Anytime one of these pops up on Marketplace they are mid teens to twenty some thousand bucks depending on condition. This one here looks very tidy. 

https://jacquierauctions.hibid.com/catalog/368180/estate-of-star-farm-online-auction/

I also see them for sale on Marketplace all the time but they are usually in the teens or low 20s moneywise.....

There is one currently for sale here on the forum buts its hidden in an extremely old for sale thread for a low boy. Seller is @MHfred here on the forum. See link below and go to last page. Real nice looking single axle MH:

Man $1,236 sounds like a real deal for that trailer. Super hard to find and easily worth twice or maybe triple that in scrap since its stainless. Hopefully a scrapper didn't get it at that price.....

1 hour ago, Mark T said:

You really believe Russia isn't selling oil anywhere ?  It's no wonder you defend biden

I never at any point in time said Russia wasn’t selling energy. They have lots to sell and plenty of buyers unfortunately.

if you think I am defending Joe Biden in any way here you are grossly mistaken and I can’t help you there. Joe Biden is easily the weakest leader this country has had at least since the beginning of the modern era….it’s really very sad.

On 5/2/2022 at 10:14 AM, Red Horse said:

Read my post again....

"Just curious.  We were exporting fuel under trump.  There was a positive attitude during Trumps term toward energy.  Biden runs on a platform and makes no bones about eliminating fossil fuels -largely to placate the progressives and the green platform. To say nothing of his position on drilling on federal lands, fracking etc.

I read it several times and think I addressed most of it in my previous post: The USA is the largest oil & gas producer in the world. As of mid 2019 we export more barrels of hydrocarbon energy (total net trade) than we import aside from a slight reversal during the pandemic. We are back to exporting more than we are importing. The trend toward being a net exporter started in 2005 with the proliferation of the slikwater fracking technique and has rapidly picked up pace to the present. The current and previous 3 presidents had no hand in this as the energy in this country is privately owned and managed. Energy on federal lands is leased to private companies for extraction and sale, which I also previously addressed.

At the start of 2020 energy prices were abnormally cheap due to the Saudi - Russian price war nobody talks about that flooded the market with dirt cheap crude. Trump had no control over this. The pandemic slowed demand drastically forcing prices even lower. Prices were on the rise starting in August of 2020 (well before the election or a Biden win was eminent) as the World's economies started to reopen and demand has picked up ever since. Now you are seeing prices drastically higher than the current demand would normally dictate all else being equal. The global supply has been drastically reduced due to world leaders and private brokers cancelling Russian energy. Again all outside of the President's control.

It's all supply and demand based. Traders and brokers make decisions based on facts and data - not far fetched rhetoric they know is completely false. To put it your way I think you are dreaming if you think Joe Biden's energy hostile rhetoric has anything to do with energy prices.  

Currently $5.99/ gallon here

On 4/28/2022 at 10:29 PM, Red Horse said:

You really think that had nothing to do with rising fuel prices?

I know that has nothing to do with rising fuel prices. The price of fuel is just about entirely supply and demand driven where your suppliers and consumers are the entire world. Joe Biden (or any president) can't force domestic producers to pump less or more, he cant force foreign producers to pump less or more, or dictate what they sell it for. He can't force refiners to adjust wages and production costs to further manipulate prices. He also can't drastically change the demand here or globally. Crude, natural gas, and NGLs extracted here don't necessarily get sold or used domestically. Heck, gasoline and diesel fuel refined here may not actually get sold here. Even Joe's direct, "energy friendly" actions such as opening the strategic petroleum reserve and resuming drilling leases on Federal Lands over the past month will not do much of anything to the price of fuel. As I said before under the current globalized commodity system a US president has almost zero control of the price of fuel. Joe Biden did ban Russian crude imports (about 9% of total US crude imports), which will directly affect the price we see at the pump. Though I think you would have to search far and wide to find someone who thinks that was an incorrect decision.

On 4/28/2022 at 10:29 PM, Red Horse said:

We were exporting fuel under trump.

We were exporting fuel before Trump, during Trump, and are currently exporting fuel. To be clear the United States is the largest oil and gas producer in the world. There is a distinction though between crude oil and other hydrocarbons such as natural gas, NGLs, and refined products, which are collectively known as petroleum products. The US has never in its history been a net exporter of crude oil. It has been steadily trending toward being a net exporter of crude since about 2005, however, the trend slightly reversed in 2020 and 2021 due to pandemic related demand swings, and is now back to trending toward being a net exporter. The US may or may not ever become a net exporter of crude. The US currently is at about a 3.5 million barrel per day deficit of being a net exporter of crude. The US has been a major net exporter of petroleum products since 2009. Midway through 2019 the US became an all in "net exporter" of energy when taking into account both crude and petroleum products combined (in million barrels per day total net trade). The pandemic related supply/demand swings tipped us back to net importer in 2021 and we are now currently back to being a slight net exporter of hydrocarbon energy.

On 4/28/2022 at 10:29 PM, Red Horse said:

To say nothing of his position on drilling on federal lands, fracking etc.

The Federal Lands thing is a talking point "news" personalities on both sides like to bring up to stir emotion for their base but never really give any context to their statements. If you look at the numbers its a pretty small amount of production. 8% of total US crude production, 9% of US natural gas, and 5% of US NGLs come from wells on Federal and Tribal lands. Moreover, 30 million acres are under lease to oil and gas developers, and of that only 13 million acres are currently producing. Theoretically 17 million acres could be developed before the issue of a Federal Land lease ban would actually mean anything. I live in the epicenter of the Marcellus region. I am starting to see a lot more pneumatic trailers and sand boxes running around again, which means fracking is picking back up. I know this is anecdotal but makes sense since the price of oil has been rising. Joe Biden may have ran on anti fracking rhetoric, but the bottom line is US producers are free to drill for and extract as much as they like and/or see fit. Economics and global supply/demand factors drive their actions. The US president has almost zero control over the global oil supply and how much US producers are pumping and/or developing new wells.

All I can say is you need to look and research elsewhere if you want to know why the price of fuel is what it is. The US President has almost nothing to do with it....

I found the production information from the Mack Museum. 177 B66s were manufactured between 1958 and 1965.....Couldn't even hazard a guess as to how many are left.....

I thought the B68 was the gasser version of the B67. I was told in B model nomenclature that even numbers had gas engines and odd numbers were diesel. Is that correct?

2 hours ago, JoeH said:

But fuel is definitely driving inflation...

Fuel is definitely NOT driving inflation. The high rate of inflation is due mostly to somewhere between 30% and 35% of the U.S. Dollars in existence being created out of thin air since April 2020. The CARES Act (a Trump administration policy) and other Covid 19 related spending & stimulus are now caching up with us. 1/3 of the US Dollars in existence being printed in just 2 years time will be a massive problem for years to come. High fuel prices are the least of our worries. Joe Biden or any president for that matter has almost zero to do with the price of fuel. Joe (and his handlers) is still a terrible president though.....