Art Lawrence

The truck is in amazing shape. I can't tell if this is a Mack fire body or a fire body that Hahn built as a Mack sub-contractor. Nonetheless, a very nice truck and well worth preserving. Signal if you tire of it. Art

Hmm. If you are mechanically adept, you might want to do a better inspection. We had the same set up in my vollie days and I can tell you from observation and experience (I think that the father of the moron in your company belong to out company) that after a couple episodes of transfer case grinding, the forks take a beating. It seems as though this truck is still in front line service, so you do not want this mechanism to fail on a response. If bucks are available, I would recommend having a Waterous certified mechanic go over EVERYTHING and assure that it is PM'd and up to snuff. It isn't a big deal if the mechanicals fail while taking it out of pump, but it is a real big deal if the mechanicals don't work to put it INTO pump. That tends to give the guys on the end of a line a thrill they won't forget. I can recall being told that the reason to mount axes on the CF's engine house/cowling is for ease of access to remove and show the incompetent engineer how pleased you are when you tried to make entry, or worse did make entry, and there ain't no water.

Well, I have a 1948 LS-85 (see photo) and can tell you that there are no parts that are either easy to find, nor inexpensive. If the truck you are looking at has hydraulic brakes, then just replacing the wheel cylinders with remanufactured stainless steel ones will cost you at least $1500 plus labor. If it has air brakes, and teh diaphragms need replacement, good luck finding ones. Some parts are interchangable with road trucks, some not. The build sheets are a real asset because they frequently have sufficient part numbers to trace the interchangable ones. Now, as to price, a comment was made about semiopen cabs being fairly common, which is true. But, the key issue is the condition of the electrial and the mechanicals -- that's where the bucks are. While the 707 was unquestionnably a tough motor, finding a head and a CORRECT manifold can be daunting and VERY expensive. A rebuild will average $5000 for the motor, provided you do not need major parts. I can guarantee you thet the fuel pump will likely need replacing -- if you replace it with an electric, be sure to wire it to shut off when the ignition shuts off -- a B that I was about to purchase became a total loss because the owner replaced the fuel pump with an electric and mis-wired it, and POOF! Total loss. By the way, if it does have air brakes and has been sitting as long as it seems, check for cracking of the drain nipples at the drain valves on the tanks. A former Mack mechanic pointed out that the weld to the tank is a weak spot in some. Good luck with this.

I have seen the Swanzey Center tanker on a drive by, and it is only lacking one thing -- an open cab. Tankers are really funny things in terms of engineering. Once you get 2000+ gallons, depending on the tank configuration, the baffling system needs attention. Performance cpecs for dumping are critical, because the baffling system and significantly impeded dumping (rear, side). In addition, keep in mind public health laws. If you are thinking about providing potable water, the materials for the tank and piping become an issue, as does the protocol for cleaning after filling from ponds, rivers, etc. It is really tricky. Once you buy a taker that cannot supply potable water, you are stuck with that decision for years. As an aside, and I am pretty sure you would have thought of this, is transit to an event. Nowadays, one needs to worry about more than just bridges when it comes to weight. Some states will provide weight waivers for tankers used in fire operations, some won't. If you have mutual aid in abutting states, be sure that both of your states will allow a laden tanker on its roads, bridges, etc. Also CAREFULLY map routes where there ARE or COULD BE weight issues that are more practical than legal. I have seen a tanker go through concrete or macadam a couple of times, or totally sunk into the ground.... a real pain. Finally, yes, you can have a Mack. Plenty of examples out there. I do agree that automatics should be used if at all possible. In circumstances where the terrain is very undulating and hilly, the manuals probably have an advantage. NFPA has turned into something that it was never designed to do - an organization that creates legal liability. Perhaps the legal profession is more at fault, but I have to say that the comment that NFPA thinks that the fire service is made out of money seems to be on target given their behavior over the last 10 years. OK, editorial over. Two cents in. Art

Well, the saga continues. The (unnamed) insurance company inspected the truck and decided to take possession. The current owner offered to either purchase the truck back, or offer a bid on my behalf. Well, as insurance companies are wont to do, they rejected the offer, called a tow truck and brought the truck to some unknown location. Fortunately, I have contacts in the auto business in the area and will locate the thing. The idea is that it was towed to a scrap yard. As soon as I locate it, I will call the yard and chat with the proprietor. Many thanks to those who (1) expressed sympathies and (2) provided leads on motors. Both are sincerely appreciated. If the junker declines to sell at a reasonable price or is hard over on parting the truck, I'll post here again. This is taking years off my life..... Best to all, Art

Thanks everyone. I will look into these. I know that the truck can be dieselized, but really hate to do that. Also, based on what I have been told, that may be cost prohibitive. Actually, it all may become cost prohibitive, but I want to give it a try anyway. Big Dog - I was within about 3 hours of being the owner. At the moment, and until the insurance company settles, the current owner has asked me to not post photos or other information, which I understand and agreed to respect. On aniother matter, I see you are in MA, and I will be moving my LS-85 up there within a few months. Thanks to everyone! Art

I was preparing to purchase a very nicely done 1958 B-85, long wheelbase Mack. Needed a little more work, but was in very nice condition with new paint. The gentleman took it to the weigh station so I could tell the trucker what the weight was. Well, POOF! Engine compartment fire that was fed by an electric ful pump doing its thing. Burned the hell out of the engine compartment, radiator, firewall inside, firewall in the cab, the dash and wiring, and cooked the windshields. Needless to say, I was beside myself and so was the seller. I contacted Matt Pfahl and sent him some photos. His sense, as was mine, is that the thing can be fixed, but the limiting factor is motor damage. And, as well all know, there are not a ton of 707B or C motors out there. Of course, some of the other parts may be less hard to find, but none the less not easy. Does anyone have a line on a 707B or C motor that is complete and might be available? While I am in no way a rich man, I want to see if this is salvagable. Otherwise, the insurance company has now totaled it and will sell it for scrap. OH NO! Matt is sitting on the sidelines at the moment awaiting the outcome of my morot hunt and also a couple of other things. Anyone with a line on a complete motor that will run properly, or anyone with any ideas, please post back. I have been asked NOT to post the photos, so that is why they are missing. If the truck is going to be parted out, I will let people know, but most of the good stuff is cooked. Ideas fellow iron worshipers? Thanks, Art

I recently went to a metal working show where I saw a demo of soda blasting. It seemed to be really messy, but as effective and less damaging (if at all) than conventional sand/grit blasting. The clean up from all the dust was just to wash everything down with plain old garden hose water. I think, if my ancient memory serves me, taht they said that they had an outlet in Cumberland, MD. If I were filthy rich and had my 60X100 outbuilding with multiple lifts, I would add the soda blasting to my equipment for sure. Art

That is quite a price. I woud have estimated it at about $25-28K. It is probably really worth that on the open market, which is to say I don't think that the purchaser got a bargain - plus the bidder's premium makes this an awfully expensive buy. However, it is all relative, because it in fact did sell to someone who had a bunch more cash or a big affection, or knew something no one else did. What is impoprtant is that it, like all older apparatus, finds a good home where it will be preserved. Art

If you have the serial number, contact the Mack Museum and they can provide you with the buuild sheets. The build sheets will give you the part number and the folks here at Watt's can help you figure out if new stock is available (probably not). If it is, you are lucky and it will not be cheap. Your motor is probably a 707B and not a hard issue to find some parts for. Art

This closed cab, short wheel base, with a 750 GPM pump should be a max of 17,200. Art

sORRY.. WARNING: DO NOT apply heat to the valve. I have seen posts where it was recommended that the external jacket of the valve be heated with a Bernz.... DO NOT do that!

Firemack gives good advice. If you are adept at things, just disassemble and reassemble. I am assuming that the change over wheel is frozen and you can't turn it when you say "it won't budge." In most cases, and I have most of my experience with Waterous electric change overs (but they are similar in their valv configuration), what you describe can either (1) be easily rectified by grease and a little added force on the wheel or (2) if that doesn't work, there is sand, rust, or some other crap in the clappers and you will need to rebuild the valve. Not exercising that valve at least every couple of weeks allows schmutz to form a nice cake solid. Good luck. If it is a nothing, Firemack's approach will solve it. WARNING: DO NOT

Very nice truck. I would love to stumble on one here in the USA. So, where in Europe are you/the truck? The folks at the Museum are fabulous and the sheets will help a lot. From a different Mack site, an Australian complained several years ago that customs made parts coming from the USA difficult. I'll see if I can find the original post, but I think that the issue was that customs wanted to charge a 200% tariff or something like that on any part he got. Although, it appears that the Euro is doing well against the dollar, so perhaps you can make money on the deal LOL. Best, Art

Jeff - thanks for posting. This could be an excellent parts truck at least for someone. It would help if you could tell everyone where the truck is located. I am not sure if all the lead time that you have is 4 days that people will be able to respond in that timeframe, but knowing location could allow for quicker decisions. It seems taht it is likely tha the truck is in the Seattle area, for too far for me to travel, but I would love to ramble though the barns and whatever you have. You'd be amazed at the stashes of parts that show up and also the value of tractor aprts these days. Best, Art

Thanks to all responders (both meanings intended). I'm going to see what might surface at Allentown, then will pursue suggestions posted here. I am thinking that nothing will show up at Allentown. It seems that the comment about oil filters being closely guarded secrets is pretty on target. I called a friend who is a "Mack Oracle" and he had no answeres either. His suggestion (to be expected) was to simply get more old fire trucks that have modern END engines, and therefore reduce my worries by 50% becasue newer are available. Took me a little time, but his math was right. I have two trucks, I add two trucks; I now have four. Two of them have filters readily available, two of them don't. Therefore, I only have to worry about 50% of my trucks rather than 100%. I will try that logic out on my wife tonight. Anyone want to make book on the response? Thanks to all, Art

am on the hunt for oil filters for a 1948 707A and a 1954B motor. I had a couple of each, but my basement flooded and they were ruined. In my old age, I can't seem to remember the source. Both were in unlabeled Mack boxes, so I must have gotten them from someone here. If there are NAPA equivalents, I'd appreciate getting a SKU or similar reference number. The local NAPA is a car parts place only. Also, if anyone hears of a C open cab truck in good condition that is likely to come on the market, please signal me. Thanks, Art Art Lawrence arthur.lawrence@firetruck.com Gaithersburg, MD

I am on the hunt for oil filters for a 1948 707A and a 1954B motor. I had a couple of each, but my basement flooded and they were ruined. In my old age, I can't seem to remember the source. Both were in unlabeled Mack boxes, so I must have gotten them from someone here. If there are NAPA equivalents, I'd appreciate getting a SKU or similar reference number. The local NAPA is a car parts place only. Also, if anyone hears of a C open cab truck in good condition that is likely to come on the market, please signal me. Thanks, Art

The best thing to do is to take the serial number and contact the Mack Museum. They can supply you with build sheets and sometimes delivery photos.... Art

My fuel pump on my '54 B-85 is shot. Looks beyong repair or rebuilding. Anyone have a suggestion as to where I can get a replacement that is either NOS or **properly** rebuilt? Thanks, Art

Interesting. A Mack plate on what appears to be a Seagrave.... Hmmmmm.

I am thinking about swapping out the mini-rear view mirrors on my '54 B-85 open cab pumper with west coast style mirrors. It looks from photos of open cab B's that the mounting brackets are different from the closed cabs. The west coast style mirror brackets on my '48 LS-85 look very different. Does anyone out there have a set of brackets and mirrors I can purchase? Thanks!