fjh

On 11/8/2023 at 8:33 AM, timmer62 said:

Thank you Joey Mack, fjh, and JoeH.  

I lifted the truck with the pump outriggers and removed the trunnion caps, wiped out the grease and visually inspected the parts.  Both the thrust washer and notched D ring spin (normal?) and no evidence of abrasions or brass shavings were noted.

 

While lifted and open, I shot it with grease and grease came out the bottom side of the bushing.  I stitched it back together, dropped it back on the ground and shot it with grease again to get the top side of the bushing.  Some grease also came out of the backside of the trunnion

I backed the truck up on a tight radius to create about 2" of axle displacement, put the dial indicator on (see 2nd pic), and then used the pump outriggers to lift the truck.  Once lifted, the axle displacement dropped from 2" to about 0.5".  The trunnions only moved about 0.020" (well below the Joey Mack 0.100" threshold).  

Parked the truck after a hard right turn and inspected the springs, and again after a hard left turn.  I was able to confirm that the leaf springs are rotating on top of the trunions a few degrees (3 degrees of rotation turn into 3 inches of wander on a 48" wheelbase). 

By hand, I attempted to wiggle/move the spring bolt on each leaf both when the truck was lifted and on the ground, and could not detect any play, so suspect that the spring bolts are intact.  

The springs are rotating in the isolator boxes, minimizing tire scrub when the axles are displaced (no unusual tire wear on this truck).  Isolator pads look good and there is no play front-to-back, side-to-side, or up-and down when the truck is on the ground or jacked up.

I ran out of daylight before I could tighten the u-bolts, so will tackle today.  

So a few questions

• are the thrust ring and notched ring in the trunnion supposed to spin?
• was my dial indicator set up correctly?
• was my spring bolt test adequate, or is there a better way to test for bolt shear that does not involve disassembling the leaf?
• one spring is rotated out of alignment from the other springs (see pic) by about 0.5".  Any risk of leaving this as is, or essential to realign?
• thoughts on re-torquing the existing u-bolts, or replace? 

Thanks gents, greatly appreciate your experience and expertise on practical repairs.

 

 

 

 

I can see by the pic the ubolts are not as tight as they should be! These are to be torqued to 1600 ft pounds I also notice the spring packs apear to be non antisway packs which doesn't help the situation ! Anti sway have more and  thicker leaves above the three bottom leaves and have less give to them! For some Dam reason the pump manufacturers use or spec the cheapest chassis they can get their hands on ! Springs to small not enough brakes 24/24 brake pots ect !  you also have the cheapest spring saddle for the job there ! Your saddle has know ears athe very outsid of the saddle !  It kind of angers me in away that they are allowed to build stuff this way! Something that is eternally loaded gets built to such  low standards! Putzmeister ,Concord and others all guilty of doing this! There seems to be no rules in place for these units! check out the different styles here are some examples !  Mack Truck Trunnion Seats, Mack Truck Suspension (autoandtrucksprings.com)

17 hours ago, Joey Mack said:

Thanks bud..  I am weak on that knowledge, mostly because the Bulk of my knowledge is E-7 and E-Tech's..  and as you know I have the timing tool for the Robert Bosch pumps,,,,   and E-Tech's  are,,, well,,,  E-Tech's...  the few other diesels I built had timing marks and windows in the Inj. pump, to set to a certain degree..  ie: the John Deere 3179's I built and an Isuzu 4 cyl.  4HE1...  Jojo

I much rather have the light set up its so much quicker ! And more accurate ! That said if your in a situation where the tone ring in the pump has moved. pressure timing is the best second method ! I have also used a drop of fuel on number one delivery valve to get it close on  one occasion due to a slipped  tone ring! and know flow timer available!  you have to have a keen eye for that one put your glasses on! 🙄 Got to do what you got to do!

If your harness has oil push you need to replace it and the offending sensors ! Also !

So you wouldn't happen to be running an extra trans ? (b box) We added a  four speed b box to a titan at one point for low bed heavy haul work at one point It maxed out the memory in the ecu and put the truck into derate  after 3-6 months of use! Went thru three ecus before engineering was able to tell us what had happened and why! And conjure up a work around! The board in the ecu had a similar look to it! 

The goal is to deliver enough pressure to lift the delivery valves not sure of the pressure Joey!  It’s abit time consuming as you need to cap off the return lines !

19 hours ago, JoeH said:

My dad times the old ENDT676 motors with a snow plow pump.  Helped him do it once a few years ago, dont know what the process is for the E7. Fill the plow pump with diesel, hook it up to the injection pump.  I think the plow pump relief valve needs to be set to around 700psi.  The book says to use some special pump to do this process, so he just used a plow pump because that's what he had.

That is called flow timing and is the optimal way to time it it flows till it stops that is port closing ready to inject! if you don’t got stuff to work with the above is the next best option!

59 minutes ago, allfritz123 said:

The manual talks about using a special tool to set the exhaust valves.   I assume I can do it with just a feeler gauge and pushing down on the tappets and loosening off the nut and turning until I get it where it needs to be.  I don't have a special tool but I don't think it is rocket science - maybe just a little more time consuming.

All you need is a 5/8 box end and 11/8 box end to set the valves! don't waste money on the the tool even if you can find one! This is the method used to find it!  If you think you have a head gasket leak or exhaust leak   set the valves up  this should help clean up the smoke issue then fix the dyna tard or ring or solenoid ( Note you have one old style and one new style solenoid) the old one is the leaky one! ( Also check to see if that sol is tight )  they can come loose!  put the valve covers on ! start the engine while its still coolish run a garden hose around the area you suspect the leak is when you reach the the bad spot the sound will go away or change! Have seen these  H G  leak between the heads on occasion! 

On 11/7/2023 at 1:04 PM, Salpolit said:

Final update:

Ran through everything I could, still having issues. Definitely runs way better the harder you run it and hotter the engine gets. When getting on it, noticing a whitish-gray haze until engine is fully hot.

I did some research and believe the injection timing on the engine is too retarded as I have all the symptoms of that. Is there any way to advance the timing a degree or two without the Kent-Moore timing light tool?

Yes! this here is a get by ! if you don't got the tool Joey has there!  Remove the plug in front of the throttle and below the stop  that's where the timing tool fits turn the engine to where its to be timed to example 17 or 19 there should be what looks like a flat blade screw driver DEAD CENTER in that hole! If its not there or not centered is  either on number six or its out of time! Set it  so the spade is centered in the hole remove the front cover and loosen the 4 bolts on the slotted gear  turn the engine to on mark you want to time it to confirm the slot has not moved after you move  the engine on its timing mark tighten the bolts and try it see if you have achieved your goal engine timing is usually marked on the valve cover and the marks are on the flywheel center bottom! and note if you have a 5.9 Cummins with this pump on it the set is very similar. Also note that We have run into a situation where by the spade has slipped on the pump cam ! this becomes a little bit of a pain but can be over come by a different method so for now go with the spade in the hole method! and advance the timing two or three degrees at a time! A bit time consuming But doable!

26 minutes ago, JoeH said:

The marks on the damper wheel are etched in, you have to wire brush it to see them.  Pointer should be on the timing cover, around a 10 o'clock position as viewed from front of vehicle.

If you can post some pictures of what your setting to! damper and pointer!  Im gathering the pointer is missing! also number 1 and 6 are sister cyl if six is rocking  your checking set on one! if two is rocking you are setting 5 and so on in firing order! Im leaning toward a lifter failure  Pull the pan to check this ! however I have seen the engine brake slaves fail on these and wear in on one cyl ! I will also note that a lifter failure is ( usually) accompanied by a popping sound in the intake!  air cleaner!

On 11/5/2023 at 4:43 AM, JoeH said:

There should be a sideways torque arm from the right frame rail to the rear differential. The eyes on these wear out, but if the truck is acting this way from new I'd wonder if someone forgot to install it...

Reread, you stated it's missing the transverse torque arm.  There's your culprit. I assume all your other trucks have it. For shits, go to your dealer parts dept, and run the trucks VIN and ask for that torque arm. If it comes up as a part on the truck then I'd tell the dealer to file a warranty claim and install it on Macks dime, citing that it never had it from new so they must have forgotten it at the factory.

A lot of times the pump manufacturer removes these torque rods to the frame to make room for the syringe rams the rear one is usually in the way! Specially on the mack diffs!  The only real way to correct this with Camel back or hard tail walking beams is to be sure you have the steel side blocks in the buffalo pad boxes! Its a dammed if you do dammed if you don't situation! Their only other solution is to move the  pump back on the frame which will throw of the weight distribution of the rig Also     If the unit has Greased trunnions the unit should be jacked up when being serviced ! Quite honestly a pump unit is ideal to do this it has legs! Lift the unit off the ground and Grease it it will last a log time if you treat it right! Additionally you need to keep an eye on the u bolts keep em tight! The problem with a pump truck is it is eternally loaded ! No rest for the wicked!

I think you will find that your turbo is fubar ! Regardless of its age!  we had run into this on many occasions ! when warm / hot  Pressure builds up on the exhaust side of the turbo under load and moves down the turbo shaft to the drain tube causing base pressure! But another question ! have you been backing up hill alot ! if so there is a kit to move the breather  to the valve cover for cases like this happened a lot with mixer trucks and some dump apps when working on adverse! just sayin!

Joe is correct I know this is a toy or play truck but if you were able to be under the hood while a truck is under load you would be surprised how much an engine moves around specially pulling big weight!

Think as stainless flex and two band clamps  job done! Just leave a foot of flex space or it will break the flex!

It’s likly a 375! If it was a 325 it would likly have  a six speed Trans!

We made a special cap off tool for the turbo to pressure up the whole intake system it’s time consuming however worthwhile if your chasing intake and exhaust leaks!

Fat ass 😂

11 minutes ago, Shortdawg67 said:

@Joey Mack yes there is a little oil in there as well as In that gasket tube that connects to the turbo has some leak in that tube I noticed. I’m sorry what does C.A.C. Mean?? If it is leaking what would be the next step? I’m wondering if something fell in or around the air filter and the turbo blades are up whatever it could have been.

oil in there is not unusual it could be coming from the compressor ! The concern is the blades are they chipped!? The charge air is the cooler in front of the rad check it for cracks along the weld at the rh top corner where it comes off the turbo! they some time s split there check all the hoses for splits and broken clamps! make sure the elbow at the top of the inlet manifold is tight and hasn't come loose!  look for indications of soot anywhere on the inlet side! something when thru that exhaust side !did it also go thru the inlet or did it come from the engine it self? that is the question! 

3 hours ago, JoeH said:

What's with all that pitting around the machined part of the cast iron? Combined with the chipped teeth I'd wonder if something small went through there...

yup I'd be concerned with that situation there! Something has gone thru there and the snail is heating  as Joey mentioned check the after cooler and the charge air system for leaks! Its starving for air ! how does the inlet wheel look? The chips that came off that wheel are melted to the housing! The hot side  housing being blue is not a good sign!

Are they still selling MP 10 there Paul?

On 10/19/2023 at 3:05 PM, Salpolit said:

Update:

Lift pump finally arrived. Changed that and no change. Decided to run the overhead, found most of the cylinders loose but 2 of them were tighter than normal. Adjusted everything into spec and that made the engine run better and eliminate any haze when idling.

Still does the misfire though. I took the truck for a drive today and noticed that it only does it when taking off and starting to build boost (or revving it at idle). Once the truck is running down the road, you can lug the engine down and everything and it won’t sputter again until it has a “light load” condition like idling or coasting.

I noticed it does it significantly more after coasting in gear. Could this be some type of a stuck valve or wet stacking?

Agree with  the filter thing too! Also did you check pressure after the pump change did it come up to spec?

Did you check with Mack ! They sometimes have these in the recon section the part number with start with an X! IF you can find the right parts guy! And you got a BIG BAG of Money!

 My perception of it is! Its the racing mentality that comes out in most every teenager and some never let it go!  The  Spirit of  Competition !   Pride! Specially when you believe in something ! Face it the only Power most of us will ever experience is that that we can  buy, build  or create our selves ! We can pretend to vote for it but it is only an illusion and rarely  turns out the way we perceive it!😪 

On 10/10/2023 at 9:21 AM, Salpolit said:

I have a call in with a company we use for diesel injection services. He told me idle lift pump pressure should be approximately 25 psi and go up from there as RPMs raise.
 

Currently idle is at 18 psi and then when we rev the engine up, the pressure increases slightly but then when it starts stumbling, it goes down towards 15 psi even while the RPMs are up. Once the stumbling clears up, the pressure will go past 30 psi.

 

I’m hoping we are on the right track here, thinking bad lift pump?

So did you nail it?

14 minutes ago, Licensed to kill said:

That is the shifting diagram that I found online as well and took the left diagram to suggest that they DO come in a twin stick but then looked at that diagram and went, "WTF, where is reverse???". That left me wondering what that diagram even means. 

Reverse is on the air switch! Low  low can be operated only in 1st gear! un less its been modified other wise!

Yup ! Agree whole heartedly on that statement! As rough as it is it’s way easier than a muck stick!

On 10/8/2023 at 10:04 AM, JoeH said:

 Ant really speak about that particular machine, but I bought a used backhoe this year and it's kinda jerky when the boom is most of the way up.  Basically comes down to "how many inches of piston travel" = "how many degrees of boom angle change". The higher up the boom goes the more the boom moves per inch of piston travel. Mine tends to work pretty smooth when I'm using 2 functions at the same time. Helps to split the hydraulic GPM flow to slow down the sensitivity. I also run it at maybe 30% throttle?

So after playing for a few hours  and talking to a friend x customer who had owned one of these ! he  is  thinking ! Someone has tampered with the pressure on the main system to make up for lack of flow they jacked up the pressure in hopes of making things better how ever you  gain at one end loose on the other!😪