Mike Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Hello from "Down over Yonder"I'm still working on a B61 that is a single axle. It needs some help in that rearward section. It has expelled lots of dirty, black grease from the pinion seal, looks like about 3 inches worth. Man it sure is caked-up. My question is..... will I have to not only replace the seal but, replace the pinion gear also? If so.... will I have to replace both as a unit to match, pinion and ring gears? Or can I get by with just replacing the seal only? We use to put shim stock in to replace, but did not like this methodoflove... alittle Hall an Oats song. Thxsmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 22, 2008 Share Posted August 22, 2008 Is the bearing tight? Is there any slop in the pinion?I've replaced my seal a couple times now and used a speedi sleeve on the pinion itself. First time was 7 yrs ago, then it started again last year so I did it again last winter. All is dry. I'm thinking I didn't get the nut tight enough the first time around(it was loose when I pulled it apart first time). I only had 3/4 breaker bar, this time I had 1" impact wrench!! I'm pretty sure I got it one more notch on the cotterpin this time. I'll give it 7 more years before I complain. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 Hi Larry,Larry i'm not familar with a Speedi Sleeve. Can you elaborate on this subject? The pinion has a little movement, but not much. I believe it has to have some in order to not bind. Am I right? Just like a wheel bearing.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Is the pinion itself loose, or is the yoke loose on the pinion?Regarding speedi sleeves, they're expensive little b*stards, and you gotta be real careful installing over the yoke.Also you must use a seal which compensates for the slightly increased diameter of the yoke with the speedi sleeve installed. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 There should be just about no slop in the pinion, as the bearings are preloaded tight and this does not allow for side movement. Unless of course if the bearing are worn it will have slop. There again, like Herb mentioned, the fact the nut might be loose(like mine was way back when) and that will cause a leak(like mine did way back) as it will allow the shaft to move around and let oil leak around the seal. It is tighter then a wheel bearing, as there is a solid spacer that adjusts the preload and on a wheel bearing, there is no spacer.Ya, a speedi sleeve is an expensive little #($*&, like $30? give/take. It comes with a sleeve to install it with and it has to be done with care or you'll screw up the sleeve and buy another one! I've always used a std seal with no problems. the sleeve is very, very thin and the seal has plenty of room for give. Make sure to lube up the seal surface with grease so it doesn't run dry at first drive. When you do tear it apart, look at the surface where seal rides on the yoke. If it's got any wear/groove in it, you're better to sleeve it as if you don't get the marks covered up it will tear the new seal. Sometimes emery paper will fix it well enough, but if you can feel anything fix it right. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 24, 2008 Author Share Posted August 24, 2008 Sorry guys that I did not get back with you sooner. I have spent the better part of this day evaluating the subject. Herb the pinion shaft has a groove cut into it. I found a web-site for the Speedi sleeve. I guess this is the only way, correction..... the cheapest way to fix this beast. I will mike it and determine what size speedi sleeve i will need. I still wonder if this is the best way to fix this carrier? Herb, the yoke seems to be ok, but that imposes another question. If there is some movement on the shaft, up and down, can i find a new yoke? Looks like it would be almost impossible to find a good salvage part. Just my guess. Larry, yes there is slop in the pinion. The axles have been replaced... I hope the bearings were also. But i was only told this. I haven't looked yet. One thing at a time for this one tracker.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HK Trucking Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 While I am not familiar with the exact setup you're dealing with, I can tell you that in the past I have had tandem rears (CRD93) where the pinion bearings apparently wore a bit and loosened up.My quick fix for that was to take out the spacer that sets the bearing adjustment and carefully file some material off the ends of the spacer, checking frequently (by temporary reassembly) to see when the correct bearing adjustment was achieved.I don't have the specs in front of me, but getting it adjusted to the point where there is no sideways motion of the pinion when it is reassembled, yet the pinion spins freely, would be a good indication of correct adjustment.Then install your speedi sleeve, install the new seal, (put grease on the seal i.d. so it will slide on without tearing the lips) put some loctite on the threads of the pinion and like Larry said, use a big air impact wrench to tighten the yoke retaining nut. In my experience, tightening the retaining nut with a breaker bar and pipe just doesn't cut it, they always seem to come loose after a while when tightened that way.BTW, if you have the yoke off, there WILL be slop in the pinion, the bearing adjustment depends on having the yoke installed and tightened, which squeezes the bearings against the aforementioned adjustment spacer. Quote "If You Can't Shift It Smoothly, You Shouldn't Be Driving It" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 24, 2008 Author Share Posted August 24, 2008 Herb,I'll buy the speedi tomorrow and let you'all know the results by tuesday.Thank you!!!mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freightrain Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 Once you tell them the seal number, they'll give you the proper sleeve to repair the yoke. Heck, I probably still have the information from mine. Your's a double reduction?(likely).Ok, seems we might have a discrepency on our conversation. I am starting to think you might be talking about "BACKLASH" in the pinion. The effect you can rotate the pinoin/yoke back and forth? It goes clunk clunk? This is common and is not something you'll need to adjust. The "wobble" we are referring to is up/down motion of the yoke itself. That could be caused by loose nut or worn bearings, though likely in your case it's just loose pinion nut.You mention groove in pinion shaft? Shouldn't cause any issue, as the seal rids on yoke, and that's where the speedi sleeve would be put. Quote Larry 1959 B61 Liv'n Large...................... Charter member of the "MACK PACK" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 While I am not familiar with the exact setup you're dealing with, I can tell you that in the past I have had tandem rears (CRD93) where the pinion bearings apparently wore a bit and loosened up.My quick fix for that was to take out the spacer that sets the bearing adjustment and carefully file some material off the ends of the spacer, checking frequently (by temporary reassembly) to see when the correct bearing adjustment was achieved.I don't have the specs in front of me, but getting it adjusted to the point where there is no sideways motion of the pinion when it is reassembled, yet the pinion spins freely, would be a good indication of correct adjustment.Then install your speedi sleeve, install the new seal, (put grease on the seal i.d. so it will slide on without tearing the lips) put some loctite on the threads of the pinion and like Larry said, use a big air impact wrench to tighten the yoke retaining nut. In my experience, tightening the retaining nut with a breaker bar and pipe just doesn't cut it, they always seem to come loose after a while when tightened that way.BTW, if you have the yoke off, there WILL be slop in the pinion, the bearing adjustment depends on having the yoke installed and tightened, which squeezes the bearings against the aforementioned adjustment spacer. Done many that way . Grind alittle and then mic it and i install and tighten and check. i try to get no load no slack but better to have a little load . Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 26, 2008 Author Share Posted August 26, 2008 Larry,No we are on the same page about the pinion. I'm changing the bearings. Don't know weather the nut was loose. Impact wrench got it off with no problem. I'll let you'all know when I get it back on and a test drive.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 28, 2008 Author Share Posted August 28, 2008 Guys, I'm almost finished with the pinion job. All went well. I like the ease of putting on the speedi-sleeve. One other minor question. I would like to remember back when you'all dicussed oil, so I can make a good decision what to put in this carrier. I seem to remember someone saying they use Rotella by Shell. I would like to know if the 80w90 is a good selection for this unit? I like the Synthetic lubes but they are known to leak past seals, as I've found out the hard way.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 28, 2008 Share Posted August 28, 2008 Guys, I'm almost finished with the pinion job. All went well. I like the ease of putting on the speedi-sleeve. One other minor question. I would like to remember back when you'all dicussed oil, so I can make a good decision what to put in this carrier. I seem to remember someone saying they use Rotella by Shell. I would like to know if the 80w90 is a good selection for this unit? I like the Synthetic lubes but they are known to leak past seals, as I've found out the hard way.mike 85w90 Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted August 29, 2008 Author Share Posted August 29, 2008 Sir,Thank you for your reply. The Rotella 85w90 will suite me just fine. By this saturday afternoon I will be ready for a test drive and will let anyone interested know the results. And a many thanks to all that has played a part in helping me with this subject. I would like to address theakerstwo by a name if possible, but found no name in the profile. Just for future reference.Thxmike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theakerstwo Posted August 29, 2008 Share Posted August 29, 2008 Sir,Thank you for your reply. The Rotella 85w90 will suite me just fine. By this saturday afternoon I will be ready for a test drive and will let anyone interested know the results. And a many thanks to all that has played a part in helping me with this subject. I would like to address theakerstwo by a name if possible, but found no name in the profile. Just for future reference.Thxmike Sorry i would be glen akers from tulsa okla. Quote glenn akers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike Posted September 1, 2008 Author Share Posted September 1, 2008 Thanks for the update Glen Akers. And for those that have been generious to reply to me this past week, I now have tested the Pinion job by a test run about 2:p.m. today. Looks like we have a dry baby now, with less leaks. Thank you all!!!!!.....for coming to my rescue.mike Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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