convoyduel

The leasing plans from the major outlets such as Penske and Ryder are targeted to companies that have trucks which are incidental to their primary business. In other words, they make a product or provide a service that requires them to provide transportation as a package deal. The very high cost of these leases are rolled into the price of their service or product. Leasing the trucks (and typically a full service lease at that) allows the company to focus on its core business but also allows them to not have to worry about a revolving door of carriers or one-time-thru owner operators that have a learning curve on each haul. In the case of smaller fleets, the cost of having a safety manager and maintaining DOT paperwork in-house often exceeds the cost of just farming out the DOT work as part of a comprehensive lease. Maintaining a few driver logs is easier than IFTA, IRP, DOT inspections and the rest of the regs dealing specifically with vehicles. For trucking companies, especially small operations, there isn't anywhere near enough profit in a load or the market to offset the increased cost of a lease, especially a full-service lease. A new truck might cost around $1500 per month. A lease, will cost around $1800 or more plus another mileage charge that totals $400+ per month. Add to that, routine wearables like tires and brakes and you're looking at a huge chunk of change. The local Mack dealer in St. Louis (F&C) has an in-house rental and leasing service. Their rates are extremely fair, but even as thinned down as they are, the dollars still work out in favor of ownership on every level. We used them on a short term lease (long term rental really) and it worked pretty well for seasonal work. They also really had the market pegged with their trucks as most of them had single line wet kits already installed. Using their rentals was a great way to keep the customer happy and keep out competition cashing in on an unforeseen maintenance break down. Rental rates often left no profit whatsoever, but it kept a driver paid, keep revenue flowing and others out. There are also leases (usually called TRAC leases) with a super low buyout ($1 or similar) that are developed for tax purposes that payoff like a loan but are leases in name only. In some cases, $1 TRAC leases may not always be 100% deductable, depending on laws and regs. A big "gotcha" in leases for small operations or individuals is that transitioning from a financed vehicle to a lease can often lead to unusually low lease payments on the FIRST lease. The equity in an owned or financed vehicle, when traded in, is applied against the total lease value, making the $ value leased lower than if no trade or down payment were made. At the end of the lease, there is no value in the vehicle to the customer (lessee) and the owner (lessor) takes the vehicle back. The customer wants to lease again, but this time, they probably didn't save any money for a down payment and they have no value in the lease vehicle they just turned in, so their cost basis for the new lease vehicle is full value, resulting in much higher payments. Tax laws allow the entire incurred cost of the lease to be expensed as it is payed out. In other words, if in a calendar year, you spend $18,000 on lease payments and an additional $6000 on mileage expenses on the lease and bought a $3000 set of tires, your books will show a $27,000 expense against income (revenue). For that same truck purchased using conventional financing, assume you paid out $18,000 in loan payments. You also bought the same $3000 set of tires. At the end of the year, you can show $3000 worth of expense for tires, dollar for dollar expenses of any parts or service paid for on the truck that year and that's it. The cost of your truck is expensed through depreciation. Where it really gets complicated is that the depreciation can be linear (same amount each year) or accelerated (more up front then the balance in equal sums). If your operation already has a net loss before depreciation (you spent more than you earned), you often cannot take any depreciation. There are rules that prevent a company from using depreciation to "further a loss". In that case, you may never be able to depreciate the truck. This is especially critical if you are using an LLC or Subchapter S corporation to pass profit or losses over to your personal tax return. You would need to talk to a CPA or tax attorney to find out how each case could specifically impact your operation.

Glad to hear Rick and the bunch at F&C took care of it. In my experience, their service and parts departments are A+. Did you buy the Vision there? I think I saw your old CL on their lot not long ago.

We never had any overheating problems grossing 110k to 120k around St. Louis with our '04 CH613 AC427's. That being said, I do know that higher operating temps on the AC427's did affect the longevity of other components, including belts, hoses and bearings. I would, without a doubt, keep a spare belt in the truck at all times. I know early on, the tensioner idler pulley had a very high failure rate due to grease boiling out of the bearing. That may have been fixed with later revisions or updates.

1. You're a rare person who shows a remote interest in an out-of-warranty ASET Mack, despite their industry-wide bad reputation. 2. This is the absolute worst truck sales economy in modern history. 3. You have a truck that is much more marketable (price, quality) for them that they would love to steal from you if you'd trade OF COURSE THEY ARE PRACTICALLY BEGGING YOU!!!!! Be completely honest with yourself. If the ASET still isn't enough of a factor, The Jake alone on this deal should be enough to walk away. At $6K, you're already talking in-frame price or darn close to it, and that is what you said was your worst fear on your current CH that you know most everything else about. If it were me, I'd have to consider the fact that its not the truck for me if it needs an option installed that costs 15-20% of the purchase price (assuming price in the $30's for it). Whatever you decide, I hope you make the right choice for you.

Some good points, but you're not factoring in loading 40K to 50K onto a single axle when dumping. Also, with a frameless, either the tractor is moving rearward as the trailer raises, or the trailer is moving forward. Either situation puts the "base" in motion and that's where stability gets compromised. With a frameless, your brakes are set, bags are dumped. When the load's at the bottom, maybe pull forward a few feet to clear the gate. As I said, though, it depends on what you're shooting for. If I had nothing but freeway/longhaul work, I wouldn't do anything but frameless either to maximize the payload.

Backing up a bit to end dump specs, the type of trailer you want is very specific to what you're hauling and where. The 39's, frameless and 1/4 frames are designed to scale out exactly 80K for long-haul interstate work. You can't use them much above 80K for long and their very unforgiving in use on uneven ground. They mostly are for use on dumping in bins, chutes, and established offloading sites or well maintained stockpiling. Frameless (and 1/4 frame) are great when you don't care about the trailer laying over. If you want to keep it stable, use a frame type, but if it goes, it takes the tractor with it. In my experience, I'd rather have a more stable combo and take an extra few minutes to let the load slide out easy rather than hot dog it and try moving with a raised trailer. Even with wet lead in the winter, patience and a liner will keep you on all tires. I can't count the number of times I'd see a tub jockey tearing forward with end dump in the air like they were driving an old Louisville with a 10 foot scissor lift Galion in the air. The frame-type trailers are the brutes that really can haul the tonnage, take the rough terrain and stay stable in the air. I ran 28 to 35 foot frame type trailers, all alum body with steel frames, except one alum/alum. The tare was a bit higher, but we hauled primarily in the commercial zones in St. Louis, typically moving 35 to 40 tons of material or more in single turn. When we had to run long, we were down to 24.5 tons avg. payload, but even the super lights running 39' frameless were only getting a few tons more (usually b/c the frameless were pulled by sleeper tractors). Never had a single problem, none of my all-starts turned any over, but we sure ran around a lot of toppled Beelman and Grantham trailers laying on their sides. The biggest competition for us was the truck-and-pup combos, with big heavy tri-axle dump trucks pulling tandem or tri-axle pups. Those tri-axle dumps weigh 28K to 30K empty and the rock tub they're pulling is another 12 to 15K. I never understood how they made any money. In the offseason, we could drop our end dumps and pull other trailers, they couldn't shed their beds too well. After I started running 35's and tractors, Lloyd Lynn, Pazdera and others started switching over. Can't say I was the reason, but I was certainly well ahead of the curve. As for Midwest bigen, a couple of my first hauling jobs were for Midwest at Antonia working on-call with Randy with my first truck in '01 when he was still there. I moved on and up right away and never had any real problems there, the problems came later on with some of the local snakes in the grass that bit me, but in the end, it all evened out. I'm sure you and I've crossed paths more than once as the St. Louis market is pretty small in the end. God knows I've got quite a few stories from my 6 years spent in the industry before I sold everything off.

The lack of an engine brake caught a lot of people and even dealers off-guard when the ASET's came out. Most everyone was used to being able to throw a jake on later for around $1500, be they Mack, Cat or Cummins. In fact, in many cases, dealers realized it was cheaper to order the engines without the jake and put them on later rather than order one up from the factory. That all changed with Mack's ASET's as the top side of the engine was plumbed different with a jake versus without. In addition to the jake assembly, there were a lot of other parts that had to be changed and a jake upfit was pushing $5K if I remember correctly. One of my 2 got upfitted with the jake. They were both "stock" models for the dealer when they used to order around 30 or so identical per year to have on hand. If I remember correctly, my jake was their learning curve for the ASET.

Most have just about nailed it. The AI's were internal exhaust gas recirculation putting the NOx back into the cool air heading to the combustion chamber. From the outside, they didn't look all that much different from the last of the E7's. They were used in MR's, RD's, DM's and Granites. The AC is the external cooled exhaust gas with all of the junk that hung off of the turbo side of the engine. The EGR coolers were intended to cool exhaust gas with engine coolant, thus the significantly higher underhood temps. I had 2 '04 CH613 SFA's with the 427 ASET AI's. They rode well, pulled very very well and got decent fuel economy, but like clockwork, every 25000 miles they threw turbos. Also, they boiled out coolant, boiled out grease from pulleys and burnt hoses and belts right off of the truck. The head was unbelievable in those and when they broke, they were down for a long long time as parts were so very scarce. There were dozens of updates to those, so many so that often there were updates that had to be made on the dealer lot for new trucks that just convoyed from the factory. In addition to these problems, there were multiple major problems with block casting failures, where sand or other debris was getting left in the blocks through assembly. A friend of mine spent 4 years running around the country from '04 to '08 working for Mack just tearing down brand new engines and rebuilding them from the defect. Most customers never knew their brand new truck had an engine with 10 hours that had already been torn completely down and reassembled in a shop. The problem with the ASET-AI's is that they are now all finally coming out of warranty, so the recurring failures are finally off of Mack's books. That also means that they are not going to be as driven to find solutions for new problems that crop up on these smoking turds on someone else's dime. After just under a year, I drove both of my '04's back to the dealer on a Friday afternoon and left them on the lot in front of their door. We had a long discussion and they took care of me. I never drove those trucks again and wound up buying two used Peterbilts for a fraction of the cost. I still see one of the two trucks almost every week at a local paving company. They continue to have a lot of problems with it, and it mostly sits anyway. By the way, the two Lindahl Pete's I bought had 365 Cat 3176's with just under 300k on them. I ran them for 3 years and never spent a dime on the powertrain, and they never missed a single day's worth of work. I wound up selling them for what I paid. I was at a Ritchie Brothers auction last week here in St. Louis and watched two nice '01 Visions with 550K on them, 355/380's, 64" hi rises go for $5000 apiece. They were very decent trucks in great shape overall. If I'm going to take a gamble and trade a known for an unknown, I'm going to make sure I don't have the farm bet on the new truck being in worse shape than the old one. I wish you luck in your decision.

That's one of the few pictures I've seen of a Beelman truck still upright on its wheels.

I walked down the entire line with my new '02 RD in late April 2001. It was absolutely a fantastic experience.

The price on the Titans vary with options, especially with the engine. Locally, a Titan with the 605hp engine runs above $150k. You're also working in 20/44 axles, heavy frames, heavy driveline components etc., so its not easily compared to a road tractor price. That being said, Mack is running around $35K higher on a Titan versus a comparable heavy spec Paccar, International or Daimler product. These are not trucks that any dealer would stock based on price and this market. In the St. Louis region, there were typically 15 to 20 severe duty trucks sold per year, mostly in the dump truck market. Since the 4th Qtr of '07, according to an industry source, I believe that the cumulative total sold is less than 5, including all makes and dealers.

We'll be leaving with the Duck Tuesday, staying overnight around Memphis and arriving midday Wednesday. We're staying until Sunday morning. Dan

Denny, You can't get any interior upholstery parts for R models any more, not even through aftermarket sources including Belmar. Your best bet is to take a cut out pattern of your door upholstery panel to an upholstery shop and have it made.

The "Interstater" was the little known and little used name of the F model eastern cabover that came out in mid 1972 with the new plastic dash boards. Although the R models didn't get a wholesale name change with the new Command Cab interior in late '72, they should have called them the "Oxidizer".

The RD stopped first at the end of 2004 with the run of the RD Legend series. The RB stopped in 2005 and the DM stopped in late 2005, altough it appeared on the website and was a catalog model into very early 2006. The Granite came out to replace the RD, but they did build them side-by-side for over 2 years. The DM was built until the Granite Set Back Axle was out. The CL series has nothing to do with the R series, although the MR, the LE, the CL, the RD, the RB, the DM and the Granite were all made simultaneously at the Macungie, PA factory at one time (circa 2002-2004) until the RD, RB and DM models were dropped. The on-highway CXN and CHN models were produced at the New River Valley plant with Volvo's at that time. The new US Titan is replacing the CL series.

Here's a photo of progress to date this weekend.

Officially from Mack: The 690 refers to RD's with factory HP of 300 hp or less. The 688 refers to 350 HP or more. EXCEPT....if you custom ordered a non-catalog engine in an RD, it got the 690 designation regardless of horsepower. Such was the case in 2002 when we ordered the 355/380 MaxiCruise in our RD, it sent the specs to engineering and forced an RD690S model number.

That RD Legend tow truck is an RD688SX. The tires are larger than 24.5 tubeless. Remember, the tube equivalent of an 11R24.5 is a 10R22. the SX models were geared towards more off-road use or 50/50 such as coal mining and logging apps. The 65K rears are correct. Also, the cab lights and air cleaner strap rubber are both 2002 or later RD production. We had one of these first last generation RD's. It was an RD690s vin 033790 built 4/26/01. Mack changed the dash gauges, switches, round clearance light option and went to an air cleaner strap rubber that only had an upper lip. The strap change was to prevent corrosion from moisture getting caught between the lower lip and the strap. Dan Bruno St. Louis , MO www.stlouisdumptrucks.com

The interior is from the late 80's/early 90's. The one piece plastic/cyclopac headliner from the 70's would require a molding process. I do have a one piece cyclopac headliner with the tacked on padded vinyl pads that I am using right now, but it is warped from age and a few of the mounting holes are cracked. It would be sufficient though to use as a sample for a new mold. Dan

Group, I've hit every dead end with Mack trying to get interior upholstery and trim pieces for my RS700L, or for that matter, any R Model cab. We've struck out specifically on the door panels, headliner and back panel. I've "come across" the Mack engineering spec design sheets for each of these items and will be having interior panels made in black vinyl. If anyone else is interested, please let me know. We might get a better price on more than one set. Dan Bruno convoyduel@yahoo.com

Hey Rob, I'm southwest metro. Take 21 about 4 miles south from 141 to Old 21 Shady Valley. I'm a few blocks north on Old 21. Dan

Rob, Add me to the list for a complete interior. I need it in black vinyl. Dan St. Louis, MO

Barry, Try an RD690S with he last 6 as 033790. It was a 2002 we ordered new with the black Level 3 interior. As of last year, the local Mack dealer couldn't get ANY of the interior parts for that truck. I thought by law, the manufacturer had to provide parts for 7 or 10 years or something like that. I still need black interior panels for a '77 RS700L. I figured NOS were out of the question, but I expected the late model Level 3 interior to still be available. Dan Bruno www.stlouisdumptrucks.com

For 2007's, if the Mack has the new Volvo engine, the bulldog is wearing lederhosen.

Saying that the Brockway version of the Mack cab and the regular R model cab are the same or not the same depends on how you define "same." The same argument can be made about the similarities and differences between a R model and U model cab. To most of us, we would call them the same. The cowl of a Brockway cab matched the finished cowls of Superliners and the post '91 RD's. The tale that the Superliner was really a Brockway design used by Mack is very plausible and interesting, and I for one would love some more proof. Every Mack-cabbed Brockway I've seen used the older flat rear cabwall like a pre-'73 Mack R family cab. The dash on a Brockway is nothing like a Mack dash, and the HVAC plumbing is completely different. The correct way to say it is that Brockway used a Mack family cab in the final year or two. Dan Bruno www.stlouisdumptrucks.com