Red Horse

Detroit News reports Volvo is trimming white collar workers to save 620 million. This in my mind cannot be good news for Mack. Sooner or later the bean counters will say..."we can't afford the duplication in staffing".

Hope I'm wrong but......."Monkey See-Monkey Do". (Freightliner- Sterling, White-Reo-Diamond T-Diamond Reo etc)

By the way, some genius at Detroit News who put the story together posts a picture of a Volvo S-60 sedan with the article. I bet he is having a bad day.

That for sure is NOT a 58. It is a 59 or 60 and is an F-800 IMO. The guy that Matt is talking about in Hamden Conn. goes by the business name of Chuck's Trucks. I thought I picked up a card of his at the 2012 ATHS National in Springfield but can't find it. Old Ford trucks though are his specialty.

Some more land clearing in 1960 with a Ford tractor.

Don't worry about the fire in the background, it was for smores and it was supposed to be cold.

Now THAT front hub looks like its a driving axle!!

Great shot of that Casa mixer between the two old Mystic KW's. They go by another name now but they've held up pretty good after all these years.

"OLD" Mystic KW's? Like how "old"? 2 yrs-look pretty new to me. And Mystic is now "Anchor"-

Transport Topics / September 6, 2013

Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, Mich., has seen an increase in Class 6 sales because of increased recreational-vehicle chassis and strip chassis production. “The economy is getting better. Even though it is growing slower than we’d like, we have many businesses experiencing growth, so they’re adding to their fleets in addition to replacing equipment,” said Len Deluca, director of Ford’s commercial truck division.

Deluca said demand for the commercial strip chassis has more than doubled since it was introduced in 2009. However, he said he doesn’t believe enough fleets are switching classes to affect growth. “One thing we’re getting is looks from customers who didn’t consider us before due to some competitors who are dead, out of the market or aren’t providing the products they once did,” he said.

Ford is seeing customers change to a gasoline-powered truck from a diesel-powered unit. “I think now there are some customers realizing they don’t need a diesel, and now we can provide them with the powertrain they really need,” Deluca said. Diesel engines provide more torque than their gasoline

Brian Tabel, director of marketing for Isuzu Commercial Truck of America, Anaheim, Calif., also sees customers investing in smaller classes. “With changing distribution patterns, they have smaller routes, and they are ‘right-sizing’ the trucks for the route,” he said, adding that the biggest change has been customers moving to a Class 5 truck from Class 6 or 7. “We have also seen customers moving down to the Class 2 or Class 2C from our Class 3 product.”

Richard Witcher, CEO of Minuteman Trucks Inc. in Walpole, Mass., and chairman of American Truck Dealers, said the cost savings for a carrier moving to a smaller-class truck, particularly from a Class 8, is significant. In addition to overall vehicle costs, Classes 7 and below are exempt from the federal excise tax that adds 12.5% to the cost of a Class 8, he said.

“In that aspect alone, there is a significant de­crease in the price of the vehicle. As the price has continued to escalate, business people are looking for ways to minimize expenses,” Witcher explained, adding that carriers are getting better at spec’ing for exactly what they need, which may allow them to purchase a smaller-class vehicle.

One way they are doing that is by spec’ing vehicles to haul a diminishing load versus a max load throughout the day, he said. By doing so, they can avoid using heavier, more expensive components because they don’t need the same amount of power as they would if they were pulling a full load all day.

“In the old days, you’d buy a vehicle that would be suitable for your maximum load throughout the course of the day, so you’d use heavier components. People are now specifying those vehicles for diminishing loads,” Witcher said. “You may max that truck out when it first leaves the lumber yard, but you minimize the load throughout the day because you’re dropping off parts of the load.”

Steve Tam, from market analysis firm ACT Research, Columbus, Ind., said there is a “subtle shift” toward lighter vehicles, particularly among regional, private and specialty carriers.

“Some Class 8 trucks are being replaced with Class 7, some Class 7 with Class 6, etc. Smaller vehicles, where they are still capable of doing the necessary work, are less expensive on every facet — initial purchase price, operating costs, maintenance costs, insurance, taxes and tolls,” Tam said.

James Fields, chief operating officer of Pitt Ohio, Pittsburgh, said smaller shipments from manufacturers to stores and from stores to the consumers are causing the carrier to increase the number of Class 6 trucks it purchases.

“The Class 6 vehicles are easier to drive, more fuel-efficient, easier to get into tight spaces where deliveries might take place and less expensive to purchase,” Fields said. However, he declined to comment on the number of Class 6 trucks the carrier has bought.

Tabel said one of Isuzu’s customers now runs trucks in Classes 4-7, depending on the route. “In the past, a guy would typically buy one truck, and that is the truck his guys run throughout the company. Now, getting the right truck for the right route is a definite play,” he said.

Stephen Latin-Kasper, director of market data and research for NTEA — The Association for the Work Truck Industry, Farmington Hills, Mich., said scaling down is driven by fuel and operating costs. He said he is seeing Class 5 sales taking share away from Class 6.

“If you look at the 2012 data by class, you find that Class 5 outpaced the rest of the industry,” Latin-Kasper said, adding that while Class 5 sales are growing,

Class 6 sales are also increasing.

“From our own data, we could not make the case that [Class] 6 was taking share away from [Classes] 7 or 8, but there is anecdotal evidence that it is happening,” Latin-Kasper said.

Steven Saltzgiver, vice president of fleet operations for Coca-Cola Refreshments, Atlanta, said that year-over-year, the company is adding and disposing of more than 250 diesel trucks. As part of that trend, Coca-Cola is investing in alternative-fuel and hybrid vehicles, but the company also is evaluating a possible move to smaller-class vehicles.

Changes in distribution patterns nationwide are allowing some carriers to use medium-duty vehicles.

“The distribution model is shifting from long-range driving to shorter-range, spoke-and-hub operations,” said Kyle Treadway, president of Kenworth Sales Co., West Valley City, Utah, which operates 18 dealerships in seven states.

Witcher said that helps reduce the trucks’ gross vehicle weight. He added that the expansion of the Panama Canal, which is scheduled to be completed in 2015, will send more cargo to the East Coast. “The need will diminish for people to do cross-country runs with sleepers, and that is when I see additional conversion from large over-the-road trucks to lighter Class 7 and Class 6,” he said.

Tim Kraus, president of the Heavy Duty Manufacturers Association, Triangle Park, N.C., said some carriers are becoming more specialized, which changes the vehicle they specify. “There are more and more people who are rather than using Class 8 tractors for city trucks, they’re specializing, and when they replace a Class 8, they’re replacing it with a lower-class truck that is more efficient and has less expensive parts,” Kraus said. However, he said it is too early to call the shift a trend.

But dealers are seeing the growth. Treadway said he sees an increase in medium-duty vehicles — particularly Class 6 truck sales — in the furniture, bulk hauling, beverage and pickup-and-delivery applications.

“One of the most critical factors affecting this trend is the driver shortage,” Treadway said, adding that because Class 6 doesn’t require a commercial driver license, “the driver pool to draw from is much larger.”

Tam expects the aging of the driver population and retiring baby boomers will continue to change the driver pool and may make the need for smaller-class vehicles even more compelling.

The CDL requirement triggers other compliance issues, including drug testing, logbooks and CSA, Treadway said. “The regulatory world of commercial truck drivers is getting more complex, hence the shrinking number of people willing to enter the industry,” he added.

Kari Rihm, president of Rihm Kenworth in St. Paul, Minn., said some companies choose medium-duty vehicles with automatic transmissions, which can appeal to drivers. Rihm has seen significant growth in Classes 6 and 7 sales. “In 2009, we retailed only 83,” she said. “In 2012, we sold 308 Class 6 and 7, and we’re on a trajectory to beat that this year.”

Dean Dills, a truck sales representative at Rihm Kenworth, said some of that growth is from sales that once would have gone to Sterling and General Motors. Daimler Trucks North America abandoned its Sterling brand in 2009. That same year, GM shuttered its medium-duty truck division, which limited its lineup to Class 3 and below. In addition, Kenworth recently reintroduced a cabover unit that is gaining popularity with in-town delivery companies because it is a shorter truck, Dills said. “They can get it in tighter areas, and there is better maneuverability.”

Ford Motor Co., Dearborn, Mich., has seen an increase in Class 6 sales because of increased recreational-vehicle chassis and strip chassis production. “The economy is getting better. Even though it is growing slower than we’d like, we have many businesses experiencing growth, so they’re adding to their fleets in addition to replacing equipment,” said Len Deluca, director of Ford’s commercial truck division.

Deluca said demand for the commercial strip chassis has more than doubled since it was introduced in 2009. However, he said he doesn’t believe enough fleets are switching classes to affect growth. “One thing we’re getting is looks from customers who didn’t consider us before due to some competitors who are dead, out of the market or aren’t providing the products they once did,” he said.

Ford is seeing customers change to a gasoline-powered truck from a diesel-powered unit. “I think now there are some customers realizing they don’t need a diesel, and now we can provide them with the powertrain they really need,” Deluca said. Diesel engines provide more torque than their gasoline counterparts, but they typically have a higher initial cost.

Bill Moad, director of fleet operations for J.R. Simplot, a Boise, Idaho-based agricultural business that produces frozen potatoes, vegetables, fertilizers, seeds and cattle, has downsized the size of the pickup trucks it buys. “In the field areas where we’re making sales calls, we went to the Ford F-150. We’re looking for better fuel economy, so we went down from the 1-ton pickup,” he said.

Kenneth Calhoun, vice president of customer relations for Truck Centers of Arkansas in Little Rock, said that although everyone is trying to be lighter and more fuel-efficient, fleets shouldn’t drop to a smaller class simply to cut costs.

“If you have a particular job to do, you have to look at it at a component level and not just if you can do this with a smaller truck. The payback isn’t there if you drop too far. You tend to get better service life and less maintenance expense from having something that is spec’d properly,” Calhoun said.

Elissa Koc Maurer, manager of communications for Navistar International Corp., Lisle, Ill., said there is no irrefutable evidence to indicate that fleets are shifting class sizes. She said sales continue to be “choppy” and that “vehicle class sales are cyclical by nature.”

In fact, Dills said, medium-duty customers often take the dealer’s advice on which vehicles to spec.

“The medium-duty customer quite frequently is a company that isn’t a trucking company,” Dills said. “They produce something, and they need the truck to deliver it.”

Can you believe the Ford guy's comment..."people are looking at us now because others have dropped out"-or words to that effect. Nothing like putting a positive spin on why people are buying your product- like maybe..We are the only class 6 gas option etc. I can't believe how inept these guys are.

Nice guys-interesting thread

While this product is intended for the Chinese market in Euro-4 spec (similar to Euro-4), it could easily be adapted to meet Euro-6/EPA2010 with a VGT, SCR and DPF.

The reason Cummins gave Dongfeng a 9.5 ISL up to 425hp is because Cummins already produces the 10.8L ISM with a different Chinese truckmaker (Shaanxi). The ISM would ordinarily suit Dongfeng's 420hp requirement but it's already spoken for. So the new 9.5L ISL is being promoted as a near equivalent that offers weight savings.

Hmnnn?? 9.5 liters-might work in a Ford Baby 8 without a 1500 sq. inch radiator

Cummins has introduced a new 9.5 liter (9.46L) version of the ISL series engine at their Dongfeng-Cummins joint venture.

Previously, the ISL had an 8.9 liter displacement.

Under development for two years, the new ISL9.5 is rated at 292, 315, 325, 340, 350, 375, 380, 385, 400 and 425 horsepower.

Does this meet US emissions standards?

I use to run a International with 11 bottom plow for Koguts nursery when they bought all the tobacco fields in Enfield Conn. That DT 466 would pull an bark no muffler .They told me if you see a field that needs to be plow plow it. Its probably ours.

To this and J Hancock's point-my sister lived in Simsbury for 50 years till they needed a house on one floor and moved to Bloomfield. But in both towns, still some shade grown tobacco but the nursery stock business seems to have taken over. There is one lot in Simsbury that looks like it has about 10 loading dock positions-thats a lot of outbound shrubs.

No doubt- a lot of development between McMansions and office parks but still a lot of agriculture of one form or another going on. Including tobacco-but for sure that I would say is the minor use now.

He has 2 actually. The other is a International. My dad was standing next to it and he had to give it a shot of either so it would start in 80+ degree weather. Pretty cool to watch plow a field since it has a straight pipe and just keeps going. I know my dad said when he use to plow fields with one a little bigger he never got stuck. and only a 1/4 of NB is houses the other 1/4 is farms and the other 1/2 is owned by the RWA and is a lake

Just busting them Matt. Conn. not noted for big FWD's-at least in my days. My uncles were weekend warrior farmers in Hamden, North Haven and Wallingford using 8N's!. Fields in back of my house as a kid were all Farmal.

Red horse we up in your neck of the woods Saturday we had to pick up a D-M 800 with 12.24 with several winches on the back with a gin pole .It took almost 4 hours to fit it on the low bed .There where a lot of picture takers land and Hi-way . At least the D M-800 was the same color as the superliner you will be seeing pictures soon and videos.

EJ- next time you are on a road trip call me-What town?

I know a local farmer with a White 4WD tractor. Has a 3208 CAT in it with double tires all the way around.

What? There isn 't a field big enough in North Branford to turn one of those around.

People seem to want INSANE prices down here,not sure if they ever sell???I found a cpl. B's sitting in fields,not run for many years.Solid trucks but 6-7K and they were sinking into the earth!

http://nwga.craigslist.org/cto/4009089963.html

"ASKING" and "GETTING" two different things- world is full of clueless people

Mass. About 2-1/2 hrs from Albany

Thank you. He was my dad. Donated all the antique Mack tools from his grandfathers trucking company to the Mack Museum.

Sorry to hear of your loss. You were lucky to have shared a common interest with him.

To add to the chorus, 237's were for sure a standard in the bulk transport industry where max loads were every load. When they came out 73280 lbs was max GCW on 5 axles but when law went to 80,000 on 5 axles plenty of those 237's were still running. My guess is the fact its a 10 speed says it was altered-here in US if it was a Maxidyne it was a 5 or 6 speed. Perhaps you should get the build sheet from Mack Museum to see just how the truck is built.

Nice-what is the power train? Wow 30,000 lb single rear-don't see those much!

So KS-much discussion about Cat trucks- these are built in which plant? what is the Navistar content percentage in these trucks???

I can't believe they will survive.

Ford had a good vocational truck with the old Louisville line, damn near every town and the state had a ton of them as 6 wheelers pushing plows and running sanders. Half the oil and gas companies ran them because you could order it as a gas job and run propane, and they held up well if you washed them. Damn shame they sold the heavy line off in 99/2000.

For sure on that- I'll bet between the LN-8000 and the C series they had more than half of the home heating oil business here in the Northeast

ITS harder to get to get good CDL drivers so the towns are going to save pay and equipment . They are towns in New England that still used 60-70s equipment and buy MACKS from other towns.to help with snow removal.

Agree on some towns buying used BIG trucks. But I woujld say more and more towns in this area are buying one tons or at max, 550's. I'm sure the CDL issue is part of it but given the capability say of a 550, it can do the job. think of a Ford F-600 or C-65 Chevy of the 60's. What did it have for HP and Torque? 200 and 300 ft lbs? Now a 19,500 gvw 550 with a P-Stroke is what 400HP and 700 ft lbs???

At this point, we know that Ford announced medium truck production will transfer to Avon Lake in 2014.

At this point, I doubt that medium truck sales are a high priority at Ford. They're no longer a high volume segment for the company, and I doubt the business is particularly profitable. Looking at the big Ford truck picture, I'm sure that Ford Brazil and Ford Ottosan (Turkey) are much more profitable that the modest quantity of F-650s and F-750s that are sold annually in North America. But if Ford was to get back into the heavy truck business, things could get interesting.

Selling off the HN80 range, all-new cutting edge heavy trucks that had what it took to make Ford a serious player again, was surely one of the company's most poorly calculated business moves.

Well I think Bill Ford has been quoted as saying they want to be in the big truck business-better that he is saying that vs.."not our core business".

Also remember when they were in it, they were a solid player with 8-10% in class 8 and usually around 20% of 7? Of course they had a broad product line then. What they offer today is very basic. And I still say, the increasing use of intermodal freight, will change the market for class 8's. there will always be a market for 500 HP "Large cars" but the bigger market I would bet will be the lower end of the scale as you will be looking at a basic tractor that goes from the rail yard to a distribution/break bulk terminal-short miles.

Buddy of mine is selling this 1974 CF. Maxidyne power with 5 speed. Very clean and motor had inframe last year. He is asking $6500 OBO.

Not exactly "Mass construction" but if anyone knows of someone interested in a Mack CF pumper I'm bringing a friends 1974 to the Hudson show on Sunday as he will be out of town. Truck is clean and is a Maxidyne 5 speed Enmgine had inframe within last year.

http://www.ford.com/commercial-trucks/f650-f750/models/

Yes these are the Bluediamond trucks that are supposedly being replaced by Ford built trucks at the Avon Lake plant.